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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions




posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


When have I opened my mouth about mens rights? This whole topic has been about pregnancy and the choice to be a parent....Wheather its the men wanting to walk away financially or the woman wanting an abortion for whatever reasons.... so how did I ever speak out about mens right? I dont believe I have....?? Im just saying pregnancy is not a mans issue and will never be a mans issue, so in MHO.... mens opinion on the topic shouldnt apply,.... Untill men can carry and bear a child this topic is something you cant understand...



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by mayertuck
 


When have I opened my mouth about mens rights? This whole topic has been about pregnancy and the choice to be a parent....Wheather its the men wanting to walk away financially or the woman wanting an abortion for whatever reasons.... so how did I ever speak out about mens right? I dont believe I have....?? Im just saying pregnancy is not a mans issue and will never be a mans issue, so in MHO.... mens opinion on the topic shouldnt apply,.... Untill men can carry and bear a child this topic is something you cant understand...


Actually... this thread is about the CONSEQUENCES of having unprotected sex. Be it babies... or be it AIDS... which hasn't even come up.



edit on 19/9/2010 by Hedera Helix because: I had an afterthought... is that okay witchoo, GAOTU789???



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Exactly my point. Because I am a man I shouldn't have any say in pregnancy. Have you read the thread? This whole thread is about Men's Rights or lack there of? With your logic when my wife was carrying my child I should just say nope not going to any doctors appts or anything because it doesnt affect me. Really?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck

Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Abortion is a personal choice, and its a hard choice to make. Its not as easy as most people think! Its bad enough people look down on it already! And if its SOOOOOO bad and horrible, then why add just another excuse for women to do it? Such as "The father declining his financial responisiblity"....or an other words being just lazy!


And I get that I truly do. But it is a choice that she makes. her and her alone. Why add a nother excuse for a woman to do it. Perhaps because a man HAS NO CONTROL OVER WHAT SHE DOES.

All of your argumnets with the exception of causing more abortions have been rebutted.

I want everyone to be responsible for their actions male and female. Since I know my wants are not realistic or even whats best for men or women, I want the second best thing for there to be equality with both sides being able to walk away.




GOOD GOD MAN!! Get a hold of yourself!! DO U NOT HEAR WHAT YOU ARE TYPING?!

"I want everyone to be responsible for their actions male and female. Since I know my wants are not realistic or even whats best for men or women, I want the second best thing for there to be equality with both sides being able to walk away"

I believe having an abortion is a responsible action taken by a women if she has an unwanted pregnancy.... Its a devastating choice, and doing such act is so very hard on a womens heart and mind, but in some situtations, its better then to give it up for adoption where child will grow up with emotional issues not understanding why mommy dearest gave them up or as another poster said I believe it was hotbakedtater, that those children get moved from foster home to foster home where they get beat, molested, neglected... oh ya thats a good choice for an innocent person. Besides if you want equal rights here... Say a man doesnt want the child, has no intrest in EVER being there for the woman or child, She is the one that has to go through with the abortion (which could kill her too...and thats equal how?) and he doesnt have to worry about it all... his body doesnt have to be put through that, how is that fair? It isnt but hey thats the way the cookie crumbles right? Hows that for your equality?? And then guess what? The man gets to walk away? ISNT that what your big stink is all about? So why are you on here?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Hedera Helix
 





Actually... this thread is about the CONSEQUENCES of having unprotected sex. Be it babies... or be it AIDS... which hasn't even come up.


Actually, the thread is more aptly described as a series of opinions in response to a court case arguing the constitutional merits of male reproductive choice. As such AIDS, and other consequences of unprotected sex would not be relevant to the discussion at hand.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by joechip
reply to post by Hedera Helix
 





Actually... this thread is about the CONSEQUENCES of having unprotected sex. Be it babies... or be it AIDS... which hasn't even come up.


Actually, the thread is more aptly described as a series of opinions in response to a court case arguing the constitutional merits of male reproductive choice. As such AIDS, and other consequences of unprotected sex would not be relevant to the discussion at hand.


Actually... where a male chooses to put it does fall under male reproductive choices. Your foul, my friend.


edit on 19/9/2010 by Hedera Helix because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 




Exactly my point. Because I am a man I shouldn't have any say in pregnancy. Have you read the thread? This whole thread is about Men's Rights or lack there of? With your logic when my wife was carrying my child I should just say nope not going to any doctors appts or anything because it doesnt affect me. Really?



Most men do... So good for ur wife
Thats my logic



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


And your point is exactly what? It is a choice. A likely consequence of ones actions. Once again being responsible for your actions. If you know that a course of action that has been decided on could result in a negative experience then you better be prepared for that experience. Just as if a man has sex he should be prepared for that possiblily. Where it stands today, women do not have to deal with that responsibility if they do not want to. As I said before and will say again, thats where equality comes in. Is it fair no its not. Perhaps as others have said before if she doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy knowing its consequences she should not have sex. Now how does that feel? Is that fair or right? No it isn't but that is the heart of the matter. You want to whine about negative consequence, fine that is your right. Never the less it is a choice. As I said before if a female didn't have the right to abort, then I wouldn't take this stance. I would fully say the man needs to be there and pay. Since the female has an out, the man should to. Plain and simple. You want equal, it needs to be equal. If you don't want equal quit harping on it about every other thing in life. And no I am not specifically referring to you.

As for why I am on here, that should be obvious. I see an enormous disparity that affect not only my rights but those of my sons and daughter. I care for their future and their lives. Please do not come at me like I am the bad guy here. Read about me, read about the things I have gone through. I am trying to solve a problem that many men and some women feel is a huge problem. Just as when first wave feminism came about many women and a few men cared about.

And for the record, If I see a woman's rights being trampled I would take a stance in her favor also. Beecause I want true equality for all men and women.


As hotbakedtater said before, blame the creator for making that unfair.




edit on 19-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 

In your experience that is which makes your logic flawed. So lets do a thought experiment. I come from the military where you get deployed alot. While on deployment 99% of the wives had affairs when their husbands were deployed. So using your logic I can reasonably say that all women are worthless cheating selfish scumbags?

See how that works? It doesn't does it. People are all different. Are there screwed up men. Hell yes there are. Just as there are just as many screwed up females.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


And your point is exactly what? It is a choice. A likely consequence of ones actions. Once again being responsible for your actions. If you know that a course of action that has been decided on could result in a negative experience then you better be prepared for that experience. Just as if a man has sex he should be prepared for that possiblily. Where it stands today, women do not have to deal with that responsibility if they do not want to. As I said before and will say again, thats where equality comes in. Is it fair no its not. Perhaps as others have said before if she doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy knowing its consequences she should not have sex. Now how does that feel? Is that fair or right? No it isn't but that is the heart of the matter. You want to whine about negative consequence, fine that is your right. Never the less it is a choice. As I said before if a female didn't have the right to abort, then I wouldn't take this stance. I would fully say the man needs to be there and pay. Since the female has an out, the man should to. Plain and simple. You want equal, it needs to be equal. If you don't want equal quit harping on it about every other thing in life. And no I am not specifically referring to you.

As for why I am on here, that should be obvious. I see an enormous disparity that affect not only my rights but those of my sons and daughter. I care for their future and their lives. Please do not come at me like I am the bad guy here. Read about me, read about the things I have gone through. I am trying to solve a problem that many men and some women feel is a huge problem. Just as when first wave feminism came about many women and a few men cared about.


As hotbakedtater said before, blame the creator for making that unfair.



Look dude, this will be my last post to you, because of MY OPINION OF YOUR IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY, and quite frankly your PISSING ME OFF!!! You keep repeating "being responsible for your actions" and then contridicting yourself and then flip floping your statements to suit your own view!! If a MAN gets a woman pregnant, we all know we can not impregnant ourselves, then the MAN needs to take responsibility for his actions WHEATHER HE WANTED TO OR NOT, if child is concieved how is taking responsibility for ones action just walking away because the guy didnt want the child??? IF your son knocked up a girl and he didnt want it and she had the child would your advice to him be, "Ignore her, she'll go away, all she wants is your money... BLAH BLAH BLAH.... Ur ridiculous! Go somewhere else with that BS! Perhaps as you have said, if A MAN doesn't want an unwanted pregnancy knowing its consequences HE should not have sex. Right back at ya! Or how would you feel if someone knocked up your daughter and just walked away and didnt help pay for anything? No Diapers, clothes, formula, Would you then condem your daughter as a whore for not protecting herself? Would you condem her for wanting to have an abortion because the man walked away and she is now having to deal with what very well could of been a WANTED pregnancy but because the guy turned his back like a COWARD she has now changed her mind and it has now become an UNWANTED pregnancy...... Think about that!



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Hedera Helix
 


That doesn't even make sense. "where a man chooses to put it" falls in no way under the umbrella of male reproductive choice, neither in law, nor logic.
You are equating (I think, like I said I can't exactly make sense of your poorly worded reply) sex with reproductive choice and the two are not in any way synonymous. Here's a simple exercise to illustrate my point; simply substitute one for the other in a sentence.

"My lovely wife was feeling frisky the other day, and met me at the door in a negligee, clearly in the mood for reproductive choice. We had reproductive choice all night. Out of all the women I've been with she is the best at reproductive choice. And has quite an appetite for reproductive choice!
OR
"Melinda was confused and upset, but she'd made the decision to exercise sex because she knew she wasn't ready to have a child. Walking through the doors of the abortion clinic, she was glad she had the sex that enabled her to make this decision for herself. For her, sex wasn't a right she took lightly, but sex was a right she was glad she had at this moment.


edit on 19-9-2010 by joechip because: add the word "a"



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


In your experience that is which makes your logic flawed. So lets do a thought experiment. I come from the military where you get deployed alot. While on deployment 99% of the wives had affairs when their husbands were deployed. So using your logic I can reasonably say that all women are worthless cheating selfish scumbags?

See how that works? It doesn't does it. People are all different. Are there screwed up men. Hell yes there are. Just as there are just as many screwed up females.



YEA? And I suppose those men where 100% faithful the whole 18 months to 2 years they were gone.... WRONG!!



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


I never claimed all of them were. But the ones that had to deal with it were. Including myself. And even if they weren't my point still stands about personal experiences and logic. Please try again.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Frankly I do not care if I am pissing you off or not. Do yourself a favor read my posts. Read my background. Who is the one being ignorant. I clearly said numerous times that I want both parties to be responsible. Since that is not the case and since women have an out of that responsibility (as a right) then men should likewise have an out.

Where is the flip flop or contradiction?



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


If your to damn stupid to see your own contradiction i feel very sad for you.... Taking responsibility is not giving the man the choice to walk away financially or emotionally... that is just RETARTED... Wow ur a bright one sir! I dont need to know your background, just like you do not need to know mine, we are simply debating a topic and maybe your experince is blocking YOUR logic not mine...have a nice night!



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by joechip
 


Look just based on the "gist" I would say this is just malarky. If there is anyone to blame it should be the man. He knows exactly what will happen if he doesn't wear a condom. And he knows that most women want a child. So give me a break.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


Wow nice attacking the person. No I do not need to know your background nor care too. But I put mine up there since I know that my position would be attack just as you are doing. SO you can continue attacking the way you are and not read it and keep making a fool out of your self. OR you can read my posts and background, and then tell me how I am letting my experience cloud my logic and we can continue the debate. I have not once personally attacked you, yet you have done it 3 times now. Seems to me like your position is weak and you need to personally attack me as a person instead of my arguments. As I said before that is your right. But do not complain if people think you are intellectually and morally bankrupt as well as sexist. YOUR CHOICE again.



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by packinupngoin
reply to post by joechip
 


Look just based on the "gist" I would say this is just malarky. If there is anyone to blame it should be the man. He knows exactly what will happen if he doesn't wear a condom. And he knows that most women want a child. So give me a break.



WOW that is the smartest thing I have heard all night!!!

Thank you! Women have a maternal instinct to settle down and have a family, if the man doesnt want that he should take responsibility for his actions by walking away and not having sex with her!



posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by packinupngoin
 


Please explain how so? Does she not know possible outcomes also? She has all the power (his power is to not have sex) yet she has an out and he doesn't. What happened to with great power comes great responsibility?



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