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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

reply to post by Edrick
 


That would be America, or any of the following countries that are not green:





This is the world abortion map. Here is the key:


Green: Never legal, or legal only when necessary to save the life of the mother or protect her physical health

Yellow: Abortion legal in "hard cases", such as rape, incest, and/or deformed child.

Red : Abortion legal for social reasons (e.g. mother says she can't afford a child), or to protect the mother's "mental health" (definitions and requirements vary).

Purple: Abortion legal at any time during pregnancy for any reason





Yay, American women are as free as Chinese women!




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


I am assuming there will never be equality because it isnt wanted? Oh wait I know because one group of people solved most of their "oppression" in the past 40 years or so and still want to become the oppressors instead of trying to work through the issue and make equality happen.

Your argument made no sensed back when true feminism started when coming from men and people that wanted to keep the status quo and it still makes no sense in today and age when the pendulum sings the other way.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by StarrGazer25
 

Just as you will know nothing about Men's right. So I guess me as a man can't talk about women's rights. ok fair enough. I wont. Guess that means that you can't talk about Mens rights either. So I guess you will be leaving this conversation then. Ok bye bye now.

See how ridiculous you sound when you say things like you will never know about womens rights. Its does cut both ways you know.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Which we have already discussed you wont do because it favors you and your gender at the moment. But if it didnt we would all have to discuss and fix it.

All humans have equal rights.....unless you are male and you want to be able to have a say in having offspring. Other wise you are just up the creek with out a paddle.





edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Umm try again thought they were summed up by patrichical control and oppression of women matriachial life is all sunshine.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Hmm how do I want to answer this do I point out the flip flop again....archaic laws (yea a problem) or that you wouldnt want to see a problem because it favors you and your gender which is hypocritical and selfish.

Decisions decisions.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

And if it did so what are we not talking about sex and what result.. Nice try.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

And perhaps it is you who should go a reread you posts as well as mine. Here is a hint it has already been done.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Where is the contradiction?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

Which we have already discussed you wont do because it favors you and your gender at the moment. But if it didnt we would all have to discuss and fix it.

All humans have equal rights.....unless you are male and you want to be able to have a say in having offspring. Other wise you are just up the creek with out a paddle.





edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)

Males have the first and biggest say incontrolling having offspring, they have control over where their sperm lands. So how is their right beong denied?

From the OP I am not the one looking for favors in this topic.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

read the article again please.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

as has been asked again then how about when the female "fishes the condom out of the trash"



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

read the article again please.
I do not need to read it again, the man was looking to deny his obligation to his own child, by saying he never wanted a child in the first place. I also linked to the outcome of the case. It was dismissed in Nov 07.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


ok perhaps I should of been more specific. read your article. you know your proof. the who definition.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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I've been watching this thread for a few days now, checking back every once in awhile. So I do apologize if this has already been covered.

I would like to pose a question. Would men be appeased by making abortion illegal? No one could, legally, "walk away" (as said many times in this thread, because that is the issue at hand here, yes?) Thus creating an equality between men and women as far a reproduction rights, besides women having to endure incredibly painful labor and the possibilty of death during childbirth, but let us PRETEND that is only a trivial matter.

So, if abortion were illegal, would it be ok for men to be financially obligated to support their child?
Would that solve the problem from a man's point of view?
Well, no it would not. And why is that you may ask?

Because a woman will ALWAYS be able to walk away. Women have dealt with pregnancy for thousands of years. And through the years we have gained a great deal of knowledge of how to support a pregnancy and how to cause a miscarrige as well. There are many ways to do so that would be virtually undetectable. Wise women trained in the old ways have been dealing with this for ages, and they've gotten very good at it.
Women would wise up quickly, realize they were pregnant from early on (because they would have to), see a wise woman to help her, and what is done is done. And men would never know that the woman was pregnant.

Is it fair? No, it's not fair at all. But it is the reality of the situation. It's sad that we've come to this point in society to where a woman would feel compelled to do such a thing. Perhaps that is what we should be discussing.

But we all must remember this (even if for different reasons): Men would never know and it would be impossible to prove.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by sindeestarr
 

Great post and great question. I can only answer for me and I would say yes. But as I have said time and time again that is unrealistic and not necessarily the right thing to do for both people. As for your reasons of why it will continue to be unfair. As I have stated before biology can not be used when it supports one position and then completely disregard that same argument when it doesn't.

This is completely true and if she does that then problem is solved for a guy who doesn't want fatherhood is it not? As a side note as an added bonus females might be more careful of getting pregnant if they knew they could be going it alone also.

All I want is if for people to be equal. Will it ever be perfect no. Because of Biology. But we can do our best to come close.




edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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Uh Oh.

Someone called the whole lot of people on this thread on their biggest lie.

That this has anything to do with abortion.

Abortion could be illegal.

And these guys would STILL talk about this.

These guys act like they are something new.

There is nothing new under the Sun. You are the exact same guys that have been walking away since the beginning of time. Only now you want people to make you into a HERO for doing it.

Suck it up - you suck. You've always sucked. You guys have caused more misery on a more personal basis than every War combined throughout all of humanity.

Now instead of just leaving your families, your children, and women to clean up your myriad of human messes, now you want a legal stick to force people to live with your messes.

This doesn't have anything to do with abortion. Only men who lie through both sides of their mouth and their ass pretend it does.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Uh Oh.

Someone called the whole lot of people on this thread on their biggest lie.

That this has anything to do with abortion.

Abortion could be illegal.

And these guys would STILL talk about this.

These guys act like they are something new.

There is nothing new under the Sun. You are the exact same guys that have been walking away since the beginning of time. Only now you want people to make you into a HERO for doing it.

Suck it up - you suck. You've always sucked. You guys have caused more misery on a more personal basis than every War combined throughout all of humanity.

Now instead of just leaving your families, your children, and women to clean up your myriad of human messes, now you want a legal stick to force people to live with your messes.

This doesn't have anything to do with abortion. Only men who lie through both sides of their mouth and their ass pretend it does.


Really? Please do not act like you know me or my thought. Please do yourself a favor and read my posts. Start with my first one. Where it tells what I have and continue to go through to this day. Go ahead I will wait.

Back? Good.....So am I lying now?


edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Thank you


It's certainly a dilemma that our society faces. I'm not sure that there is a solution that would fully satisfy both parties. I'm not sure that even a compromise can even be reached.


Perhaps we could have a pre-coitus agreement, similar to a pre-nuptual agreement? A contract stating possible outcomes of sexual involvement with one another and what each party would be required to do in the event of possible outcomes. I know it might sound silly at first but it would legally binding I suppose. If the parties involved could not come to an agreement before hand, that would perhaps be a sign that they shouldn't be together to begin with.

Anyways, I'm just throwing some ideas out here.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by sindeestarr
 


No need to thank me, I am merely giving credit where it is due and it is definetely due..

And no neither side would be completely satisfied with the solution, but that is why compromise is an art.
While I can agree I think I think it would be hard but a compromise can be reached. It was done with first wave feminism. Is it going to be hard yes. Is it going to require sacrifices on both sides hell yes.,,,,but it can be done. The first step is to let go of the anger that blinds one and acknowledge the other party has an issue, not ignore it or try to justify it away.

And I actually like your idea. Although some form of protection would needed to be utilized in addition. Great thinking and thank you for trying to help.



edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)




edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



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