Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Kailassa
Some mothers are unaware of pregnancy till they give birth.

In that case, he would be held legally responsible.

By the end of the second trimester an abortion is illegal in America.

That's not true. Abortion is legal at any time. States can deny abortion after 6 months, but the US law isn't limited.

Ah yes, legal according to the Feds, but illegal and unobtainable in many states unless you can prove your right to an exemption.

realchoice.blogspot.com...
The following states allow for "physical or mental health" exceptions:
1. Arizona
2. Arkansas
3. California
4. Connecticut
5. Delaware
6. Florida
7. Georgia
8. Illinois
9. Iowa
10. Kansas
11. Kentucky
12. Louisiana
13. Maine
14. Maryland
15. Massachusetts
16. Minnesota
17. Missouri
18. Nebraska
19. Nevada
20. North Carolina
21. North Dakota
22. Oklahoma
23. Rhode Island
24. South Carolina
25. South Dakota
26. Tennessee
27. Texas
28. Virginia
29. Washington
30. Wisconsin
31. Wyoming

The following states allow post-viability abortions only for physical health exceptions:
1. Alabama
2. Indiana
3. Ohio
4. Montana
5. Pennsylvania
6. Utah (enjoined and unenforceable)

The following states allow post-viability abortions only if the mother's life is in danger:
1. Idaho (enjoined and unenforceable)
2. Michigan
3. New York

Of course many males, (I would not call them men,) in this thread are such misogynists they'll be delighted to know the women is suffering in the cause of their freedom to screw without consequences.

And you wonder why men aren't crazy about feminists?

Oh No!!! It's because I don't like misogynists?
Btw, it's not an anti-male thing. I despise female misogynists too.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


And thank you, my friend, for your understanding and calm debating style. I have to say after 45 pages I am running out of ways to state my piece that I have not already stated two or three times upthread. This debate has taught me to never take ANYTHING especially someone's opinion, for granted!

reply to post by Edrick


In addition the rewiring into the spatial center that men get, doesnt make all of them super bright, as I said women often outperform them in college, it just creates some more bright, at the highest levels in that spatial way, and it doesnt make them wiser. That whole brain is also intelligence and very wise intelligence. My physicst uncle was not the sharpest tool in the shed about other matters, his wife excelled too, with her creative mind. All that relates to job function, tasks, some of which are hardwired. Also, the hardware can be overcome with by software. Men can excell at being good nurtureres, counselors, and artists too, not just mechanics and math. And women can go the other route.

But the anger in that last post was pretty evident, so hope was just written out of brief annoyance at the posts and not set in stone in you. Anyone can have a bad moment, and even say rash things against others, it not always long term, its just being human.

reply to post by Kailassa


Thank you Kailassa.

I can tell from your posts and my own experiences - - - you know what you're talking about.

You have obviously had real life experiences.

reply to post by Unity_99


While the earlier points you raised were valid, you seem to have undermined them yourself with the following passage:

When i was nursing round the clock and putting in 20 hour days with my babies, cat napping for a few moments at best, and running hte household, and my second oldst woke ever 2 hours for a feeding till he was nearly 2, I didn't notice any man doing the same. What I saw is them coming home and having beers with friends, or resting up and pursing their own interests.

We can all share anecdotal stories about our own or others personal experiences, but this method of argument detracts from the issue at hand. I personally worked all night and watched my child after I got home, while my wife went to college, and agreed to extend that period for "homework" because she was doing an inadequate (and unsafe) job of supervising a toddler. I also cooked dinner (she was a terrible cook) and walked my sweetie to sleep each night. Did diapers, laundry, all of it. But none of that matters to the issue at hand, don't you think? Aren't we discussing equality in law? Do the tendencies of the sexes to behave certain ways really bring clarity to the subject?

To Punisher and Joe, you guys are a rare breed. and dont think your efforts dont go unnoticed, your child loves you and in the future will do anything for you and Joe, Im sure your woman appriciated everything you did...wish there were more guys out there like u too thats for sure!

reply to post by joechip


That was just said to express that men don't work harder than women overall, and I was noting the expereinces of many, both sexes at the time. Even a stay at home mother works round the clock when she's looking after infants, in fact I put in more hours than my workaholic father, who tended to have a moment to himself now and then and always found time to play bridge, fish a little, and golf. I spent years with not even a moment to myself.
So I don't see how it distracts, since its being truthful.

Men often downplay the work invovled in this. In fact, one of my male relatives quickly returned to the work force after an injury, to hand that job back, after getting laid up, and she was working out temporarily to compensate.
He never let his friends badmouth women after that either, he spoke up and pointed out it wasn't work he wanted to do, and never ended.

There are plenty of men that I've met, that don't seem to understand that comparing work schedules means comparing time off, when you can pursue your own interests and hobbies. Her cleaning out the cupboards or taking the kids to soccer practice does not = his bridge tournament, or fishing trip with friends, nor does it equal his unwinding time.

After an out-of-wedlock birth, there are no provisions for the custody of the child. However, in every U.S. State, as well as most countries, a Putative Father has “No Assumed Rights” to the child, even while under Court Ordered Child Support. Currently, only Germany is considering a law that would grant Putative Fathers the same rights to his child as a Married Father. In the U.S., to see his child, a Putative Father must either seek permission from the mother, or the courts, if the mother denies him access, even while receiving support.

However, the “Safe Haven Laws” in most states conflict with this:
Safe Haven Age Limit Map“In most States with safe haven laws, either parent may surrender his or her baby to a safe haven. In four States (Georgia, Maryland, Minnesota, and Tennessee), only the mother may relinquish her infant.5 Idaho specifies that only a custodial parent may surrender an infant.”
[color=#ff0000]U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Administration for Children and Families

Poll: Should a Single/Unmarried Father, who feels he would not be a good father, be allowed to abandon his child under the Safe Haven Law?

The laws vary from state to state, allowing from a few days to one year after the time of the birth, to make use of the Safe Haven Laws. Of interest in this, the mother can do it even after being awarded child support, as Child Support Enforcement, especially one from another state, would not be notified that she has abandoned the child.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by joechip

 

That was just said to express that men don't work harder than women overall, and I was noting the experiences of many, both sexes at the time. Even a stay at home mother works round the clock when she's looking after infants, in fact I put in more hours than my workaholic father, who tended to have a moment to himself now and then and always found time to play bridge, fish a little, and golf. I spent years with not even a moment to myself.
So I don't see how it distracts, since its being truthful.

edit on 18-9-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

The jobs men do get them killed 700 times more often than the jobs women are willing to do. And a stay at home mom does not work 24 hours anymore than a stay at home father does. Or are stay at home fathers more organized with their day?

reply to post by George1McCasland


Great post, thanks for the linked poll. What's interesting is that 77% at this point feel that both biological parents should be notified, or no safe haven. Obviously not the case with the current laws. 22% feel a man should with no reservations or limitations be allowed to utilize safe haven laws. While 0% feel only women should have the exclusive right. I have a problem with the poll as it really never addresses the problem of "kidnapping" for the purposes of legal abandonment. It could be argued women who utilize this option "kidnap" the child when they do not notify the father (not required) but it certainly could also be a tempting option for an unmarried father with an unwanted child and the financial obligations implied to do so against the mother's will. Especially if it were legal. I think a better solution in such a case is the ability of the biological father to give up his parental rights and responsibilities for the exact time, in each state allowed women, in the "form" of the safe haven law, not dependent upon the woman's decision. In other words, give him the ability to "legally abandon" the child, but not "physically." Just a thought.
I know some in this thread contend a man already has that right, but its patently untrue.

i can't help but notice the high volume of militant lesbian man hating comments on this thread. i better just stay out of here...

reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die

I chose instead to use my "ignore" function. I only had to use it once. Now the thread is just fine. It's a shame that you feel you can't contribute to the conversation because someone has attempted to turn it into a vehicle for "hate, intolerance, and attack" but when the moderators fail to act, you still have an option. Ignore! It sometimes makes for disjointed reading, but that's okay because the posts worth reading are invariably absent of such vitriol.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Kailassa
Whining about not having posts answered when you don't answer posts yourself?

I guess you do stand for double standards.

What are you talking about? And why be so nasty about it?

I'm nice to people until they get nasty.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic But if a woman chooses not to abstain, she can whine about a baby and child support all she wants, right?

So many single parents sacrifice everything for their children, trying to bring them up on their own and unable to actually get even the pittance the court has awarded them in child support, and yet you have the cheek to belittle them in this manner for finding things difficult. Oh, sorry, you're only belittling the female single parents.

You contend that when a pregnancy happens, caused by two parties who agree to have sex, each knowing sex can result in pregnancy, the man should have a free out just because the woman can supposedly have an abortion.

Yet you speak out of the other side of your mouth claiming you would not dream of putting pressure on the girl to have an abortion. You're plenty smart enough to know that denial of fatherhood from the father will be one more pressure forcing women into having an abortion, so I have lost the respect I used to have for you as an honest poster.

You support a law to say that once a man has renounced paternity, even if the child is born, he will not be a father and have no responsibilities to them.

What about the rights of the child?
"Oh, the woman should have thought of that and "kept a nickle between her knees."

Either you are saying women should be forced to get abortions at the man's choosing, or you are saying children should have no right to have support from their own father.

I've seen what it does to a child to be denied by his father. I have 2 handicapped sons who try and be brave about it, but who adore their father from afar and blame themselves for the fact that their father does not want to know them. One only talks about it in the middle of the night, when he's struggling against urges to kill himself for being no good.

And you want to change the law to put more children into this situation.

And you know what will happen if you change the law like this?

Any change on the womens' part to have fewer babies will be counteracted by an even greater freedom for men to screw all they want without fear of repercussions.

You know your case is the closest so far in the discrepancies of the burdens of child birth........ but why dont you take in to account that the father might not want , or can not afford dealing with all that a child "is" and entails...So why whine about something that you don't agree on...compromise. And most importantly why try to force something on anybody that, will in all likelyhood never conform to your understanding.....And no the fact is that most men in comparing to women dont screw aroud so much...why..... because its expensive.....It takes two to tango... Even the ones that screw around, well they need a female to screw, don't they. So if they are animals and screwing everything, who do you think there screwing around with?.... But fear not a change in these sittuations by force of law, will not play favorites, so women's part in having many babies will not be trampled on, they and the men will have the freedom to screw all they want, with more equal repercussions. And the state and lawyers will still get to have a job, limiting there interactions in such personal discrepancies... It wont solve the problem...because the problem is of a personal matter and nature, individually...But it would get more to think before crossing the road, and bringing a child in to the world. There by limiting this enterprise.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


And of course I know this this was a reply to hot backedtater saying that the only way a woman can get pregnant id by a man only? Purely sarcastic.

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Knew this was going to come up eventually. Well Here we go. Patriarchy, ok lets have it where is this male controlling women coming from? Is it the courts? laws? jobs? exactly where? Yea 40 some odd years ago I could give you this one. Today no effing way.

We all ready live on the verge of a matriarchial society. Look around you, look at the issue in itself. Is that not oppressive. Look at child custody, look at domestic violence, look at the level of money spent researching women's only health care vs. men, look at women's studies in colleges, look at the number of females vs. males receving and even enrolling in college, the list goes on and on.. Seriously pull your head out and look around for once please.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Wow seriously every job requires that. Ever hear of the equal Opportunity Employer...Yea what the hell is that?

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Exactly you do not know. And because of your blind closed minded idealogy you would rather play by the rules instead of working to find a solution so that people can be equal. I wonder why that is?

Oh wait I already know. Because they favor you at the moment. Had they not favor you, then I bet you would be all over looking and working for a solution. Instead of playing by the rules. Typical gender feminist hypocracy.