It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

page: 47
56
<< 44  45  46    48  49  50 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:42 PM
link   
Despite outraged denials, legislating a complete cop-out for men will pressure more women into having abortions.

An expected timeline would be, at 4 - 12 weeks she discovers she is pregnant, then she informs the father.
Then he needs time to make up his mind.
So a woman who does not already want an abortion is waiting, how long, another month for the man to decide?
Then she has to book an abortion somewhere if the man's decision pushes her into an unwanted abortion.
It may be she's not knowing the man's decision until the 4th month; it may be even later if she's one who does not become aware of the pregnany early on. Some mothers are unaware of pregnancy till they give birth.

The woman might not be able to find an accessable doctor at this stage willing to perform such a late abortion, or she may not be able to afford the cost of the full-blown inpatient operation this has now become.

By 20 weeks the damage to the cervix caused by forcing it open raises the likelihood of subsequent premature births and miscarriages. The danger to the mother of death or serious injury at this stage equals the dangers in childbirth, and continues to rise over the course of the pregnancy.

By the end of the second trimester an abortion is illegal in America.

If the women feels bad about aborting her baby, and feels she was pushed into it, she is more likely to go through severe, long-term depression afterwards. This is even worse when she has already been feeling the baby kicking inside her.


Of course many males, (I would not call them men,) in this thread are such misogynists they'll be delighted to know the women is suffering in the cause of their freedom to screw without consequences.




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Edrick
 


Rights are legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement

Womens rights....are something you will never know anything about, because you are not a women. Jealous much?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:46 PM
link   
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


You wont answered because you are a child.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



Reading comprehension helps, please point out this failure. Do you know what comutual means? And I did not define the concept WHO did.


No... Honestly.

What do you think "Rights" are?

-Edrick (Breathless with anticipation)
No you honestly do not know what comutual means? It means something that can be mutual with another thing or concept.

What do you think rights are? I already clarified where I took my definition for this debate.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
]Yet unlike a woman, he knows he can leave his load all across America and not have to deal with the messy inconvenience of things like pregnancy and abortion.


Women have ALWAYS been the ones to deal with the messy inconvenience of pregnancy and abortion. I'm not denying that. We also have periods. Not fair, but that's biology. But we can't change that. What I'm advocating doesn't change that.



There is no opt out for a female, abortion is not opting out, it is very much a parenting decision, the mother's first parental decision....whether to parent or not.


And where's the father's choice - whether to parent or not? ? You keep playing both sides of the fence by saying that men make their choice BEFORE sex. Women have that same choice.



The father's first parental decision?

To have sex with a female.


That's the mother's first parental decision, too. To have sex with a man who can plant his seed in her body.



How is it fair he gets to decide first?


You act like she doesn't have the same decision!
They BOTH decide to have sex. She's not a victim here.


Originally posted by Kailassa
If the "male abortionists" have their way, far more abortions will be performed in the second trimester, after the man has had time to make up his mind.


You might be surprised. Perhaps more women will be more careful to NOT become pregnant, knowing that they may be held solely responsible for any resultant child.



Aborting a foetus does not equal denying Fatherhood.


It's not exactly the same, no, but both actions are a choice NOT to be a parent.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:50 PM
link   
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 





MEN will always be paid more, even if the women has a higher education,


Theres a law for that.
www.eeoc.gov...

As as we're discussing law here, I would consider that point an EPIC FAIL. (I would also recommend, when espousing the notion of female intellectual superiority, that you take especial care with your grammar)


edit on 18-9-2010 by joechip because: edit, ironically, for grammar




edit on 18-9-2010 by joechip because: spelling



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by Edrick
 


"Sir you need to get off your high horse!! There is no EQUALITY and never will be, and how dare you try to dumb down my gender...let me guess, your an older man who thinks he knows all just because you have a penis right? Ur the type of man that probably thinks that women should be seen and not heard right? OR that we belong in the kitchen and NOT in the work force."



Yep...untold and insurmountable logic.

 

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.



edit on Sat Sep 18 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: One Line and Short Posts – Please Review This Link.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jwbmore
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


You wont answered because you are a child.
I did not answer because it has no bearing on the debate, from my pov. I believe in free speech, though, feel free to have a whack at it yourself.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:55 PM
link   
reply to post by joechip
 


U sir, can go kick rocks. I got my point across didnt I? Get over yourself!



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


If there is anything I am not doing in this debate it is fence setting. I don't feel like repeating myself yet again, but I already addressed these points. More than once.

I also have stated my stance on feminism, it does not need to be repeated. I am not the one bringing gender equality into this debate, others are.

Eta, I do not bring gender equality into my debate here because one it has no bearing on the topic and two I do not believe in gender equality, I believe in equality of human rights. All humans deserve the same rights, and in the situation posed by the OP I have stated emphatically why I believe the way I do, and why both male and female in this instance already start with equal reproductive rights.


edit on 18-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: add



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:00 PM
link   
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 



Sir you need to get off your high horse!


Silly... Rabbits don't ride horses.

You're funny.


There is no EQUALITY and never will be


Yes.


and how dare you try to dumb down my gender


I'm assuming you are talking about Women?


No, I don't have to dumb down your gender.

You are doing a marvelous job of that yourselves.


let me guess, your an older man who thinks he knows all just because you have a penis right?


Nope.


Ur the type of man that probably thinks that women should be seen and not heard right?


You know what happens when you assume, right?


OR that we belong in the kitchen and NOT in the work force.


Well... if you keep wanting society to treat you like Children, and cater to your whims of "What you Feel Should Be", then we are going to TREAT you like children.

So, if that is your decision, then yes... Get back in the Kitchen.


Well it has been scientifically proven that women mature faster then boys


When you say "Mature" you are speaking of Physically.

In that women are able to REPRODUCE earlier than men are.


This says nothing about Mental maturity, as you would like others to believe.


Oh, and Fluoride has a acceleration effect of the sexual development of females.

You know... Scientists and stuff.


and with the maturity level also comes a higher level of comprehension at younger age no less!


Once again.... you are using the word "Maturity" and are deriving a mental context to this.

This is wrong.

Maturity means Biological Development.... not "Girls 'mature' faster, that means they are smarter and more adult YAY!!!!


Because that would indicate that you do not understand words, and their meanings, and instead use them for how they "Feel" to you.


so please dont insult women by saying we dont use logic.


I don't need to insult.... you provide ample evidence for (what you suppose is) my claim.


Nature has a funny way of evening itself out, while men are stronger physically, women are stronger mentally.


No, I'm sorry, that is incorrect.


Scientists, Mathematicians, Engineers, Physicists.....


Guess which gender is the VAST majority in these "Mental" fields.


and I'll give you a hint.


IT'S MEN.

AND NOT WOMEN.


And yes we might vote for a war time president, but since we are still considered a minority Im sure there were plenty of men who also would vote for that president if elected.


See?

There is that ignorance of language again.

Minority means "The group that has the least amount"

In this case, you are so mistaken that I am seriously taken aback by your near Deliberate Ignorance of the facts.

At last census... women had the *MAJORITY*


So, again.... you use words, that you do not understand what they mean.



See, wheather we like it or not (WE BEING A SOCIETY AS A WHOLE) LIFE is not fair.


Perfect justification to [snip] all over someone, eh?

These are the thoughts of a child.


MEN will always be paid more, even if the women has a higher education


Because Men work harder than women, put in more effort, and make more sacrifices for their job.


Men work harder than women.


Men can sleep with multiple partners and would not have to live with the scrutiny that women do.


Have you ever heard the word "Lothario"?

It was a derogatory statement... back in the day.


Look it up.... it may surprise you.


And yes women make mistakes, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, no one is, and YES we might for get to take our pill


You mean forget to take your pill for the several days IN A ROW that it takes for you to become fertile again?

Yeah.... nice.


Something a man doesnt have to worry about


If you think that men do not worry about you forgetting your pill, you are living in denial.


if the woman makes the choice to have an aborition she is taking responsibility for her actions and it is costly on her soul!! While the man gets to live guilt free!


While he gets no say in the matter, one way or the other, eh?


She is also then putting herself in danger for a botched operation which she could possibly die from


Well, if they kept their legs shut, they wouldn't have to worry about that, would they?


.and if she chooses to keep the child you HONESTLY believe the man should ALSO have the choice to walk away completely and financially?


Yes.

That is what Equality means.

Only I don't think you will be able to grasp the simplicity of this concept.

You seem to emotional for that.


Oh thats real good sir, lets turn our young boys into irresponsible, selfish , egotistical animals with no remorse or compassion for anyone but themselves


Well why not?

The girls are giving away Sex for practically Free....


Why SHOULD they buy the steak?

Especially since it has been all OVER the grill since it was old enough to draw attention.

Like it thinks that its only value is in its flesh, or something.


"Strong" "Independent"... yeah... right.



they are literally getting away with MURDER and they dont have to bear the cross!!


Abortion.


While we women have to carry all of these burdens on our own!


And what woman was imprisoned for preforming an abortion?


ARE U KIDDING ME SIR?! ...... Yea... your comprehension is way down on the scale...


You should probably learn how to type in whole words.

The "Leet Speak" is a tad dated... and childish to boot.


You know that adults use whole words, right?

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:01 PM
link   
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 



And how do you know its being used as a form of birth control?


You didn't even READ the article, did you?

Nope... not one bit.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kailassa
Some mothers are unaware of pregnancy till they give birth.


In that case, he would be held legally responsible.



By the end of the second trimester an abortion is illegal in America.


That's not true. Abortion is legal at any time. States can deny abortion after 6 months, but the US law isn't limited.



1. In the first three months of pregnancy, no one can interfere with a woman’s decision to abort her child.

2. After the first three months, but before the “viability” of the unborn child, an individual state can enact laws to protect the health of the mother but cannot prohibit the abortion of the unborn child.

3. After “viability” of the unborn child, an individual state can, if it chooses to do so, enact laws to protect the unborn child but abortion must be allowed if the life or “health” of the mother is at stake. The Supreme Court defined “health” as “the medical judgment that may be exercised in light of all factors – physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age –relevant to the well-being of the patient. All these factors may relate to health.”


Source



Of course many males, (I would not call them men,) in this thread are such misogynists they'll be delighted to know the women is suffering in the cause of their freedom to screw without consequences.


And you wonder why men aren't crazy about feminists?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:06 PM
link   
reply to post by StarrGazer25
 


No, you didn't get your point across. Certainly not. If your point was that inequality is a fact of human nature, which I'm not entirely sure it was, (because you failed to get it "across") and then you support that assertion with the statement that men will always be paid more, etc., and I refute it with an example of law addressing that particular inequality, it would stand to reason that your argument failed. In dramatic fashion. Are you *"woman" enough to acknowledge that?

(*intellectually superior, in this context.)


edit on 18-9-2010 by joechip because: edit for better syntax



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:06 PM
link   
Benevolent Heretic...Will you be my friend? LOL



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


It does not happen often but I agree with you. Actually, I cannot believe I am agreeing with you on something




I was not going to bother with this discussion but I figured what the heck.

Personally the best bet any can do is to not have sex until they are ready for the possibility of being a parent. If they are not ready for that they should not consider the act, you can do other sexual things together without the risk of pregnancy.

Having said that I understand that is not going to happen.

So what is my view on this sort of law? I agree with it. After all the woman has the right to abort leaving a man who might want to be a father without a child. The woman who chooses to keep the child with a father who does not want to be one should not be allowed to get a paycheck from him.

Time and again the woman gets to make the choices (after both have chosen to do the deed that got them to that point), without the involvement of the man. Had I ever gotten someone pregnant when I was running around I would have wanted the child to raise with or without the mother present, I always wanted kids.

It takes two to tango so it should take two to make decisions. More often than not, the law sides with a mother even if she is not as fit as the father would be to raise a child. In this sort of situation it is a woman’s world and they run it. Granted there are great mothers out there but what I am getting at is there are just as many crappy moms as there are dads only they still get custody of the child because the law sees the mother as the child raiser.

Everyone talks about equal opportunity; it cannot get more equal than this.

Raist



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:10 PM
link   
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


I understand your position. I understand how abortion does not necessarily have anything to do with equal rights to you. You know I understand your position because I used to hold it.
And if it took hours of debating with my husband for me to change my mind, I'm not going to change anyone's mind here.
And I don't really want to. I just wanted to state what I think is something we could do to make the laws more fair.

Women should have absolute control over what happens in their bodies and their reproductive choices. Period. I agree with you on that.

But when it comes to men's reproductive rights, I think there's room for improvement. More to be discussed. But after 45 pages, I think it's clear we're not going to change anyone's minds here.


Thank you for the debate, the PMs and for staying civil. I really appreciate it, my friend.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Wow, two posts in a row I agree with you.

Either I have hit my head or slipped into another dimension. Good Post BH.

Raist



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Punisher75

Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by Edrick
 


"Sir you need to get off your high horse!! There is no EQUALITY and never will be, and how dare you try to dumb down my gender...let me guess, your an older man who thinks he knows all just because you have a penis right? Ur the type of man that probably thinks that women should be seen and not heard right? OR that we belong in the kitchen and NOT in the work force."

Can you Prove any of these accusations you have made?
( Hey Smart One.... Thats why I said LET ME GUESS!)

"Well it has been scientifically proven that women mature faster then boys ( We all know this) and with the maturity level also comes a higher level of comprehension at younger age no less!....so please dont insult women by saying we dont use logic. Nature has a funny way of evening itself out, while men are stronger physically, women are stronger mentally."

Can you Prove any of this? (I went and looked and got nothing but a whole bunch of conflicting studies.)
(Since I am a Parent I read Parenting Magazine, and yes there was a study in there that I am referring to)

"And yes we might vote for a war time president, but since we are still considered a minority Im sure there were plenty of men who also would vote for that president if elected."

How does this mitigate his point?
(WOW, see that shows how low your comprehension is, he was saying that women can vote for a war time president and dont have to worry about being drafted...*cough* Coward*cough* so I was simply stating that a president wont be elected strictly from women voting for him, we are a minority not a majority.... Wow your intellect is amazing!! Therefore if said war time president is elected, there would have to be men voting for him too... so why shouldnt we have the right to vote for who we want?)

"See, whether we like it or not (WE BEING A SOCIETY AS A WHOLE) LIFE is not fair.
MEN will always be paid more, even if the women has a higher education,"

(Question...Why cant all you super geniues find away around this then?)
(Question...Why are you taking this so personal my friend? And how are we suppose to find away around not being paid as fairly as men?? O by the way I know there are laws on equality in the work place, but it doesnt happen...get real!)

Men can sleep with multiple partners and would not have to live with the scrutiny that women do.

(Because promiscuous women are not glorified at all in western culture...*cough* sex in the city *cough*
(*Cough* Sex is apart of life, and relationships, which the show was about*cough cough* Dont try to turn it into a porno )


"And yes women make mistakes, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, no one is, and YES we might for get to take our pill, Something a man doesnt have to worry about, and we could get pregnant, if the woman makes the choice to have an aborition (Spelled Abortion Right?) she is taking responsibility for her actions and it is costly on her soul!!"

(Then don't do it....)
(Alright, prepare for higher taxes to help pay for all these innocent children, because it does take TWO incomes to take care of a child!)

"While the man gets to live guilt free! "

(While being called a Dog or a Half man. There has never been any guilt put on men for not being responsable...ever....this post is the first time I have ever seen it....no really. First time...)
(No really? Yea men get called DOGS, PIGS, P.O.S , but do you really think it eats at a man who doesnt pay child support while hes spending his money on drugs and alchol?? and sleeping with more women??..no I didnt think so!)

"She is also then putting herself in danger for a botched operation which she could possibly die from, Something a man NEVER has to worry about....and if she chooses to keep the child you HONESTLY believe the man should ALSO have the choice to walk away completely and financially?"

(Well is she chooses to abort then he has to CHOICE but to walk away regardless of if he wanted to be a father or not.)
(What are you trying to say here? Do you really think a women would go and have an abortion if the father wanted the baby?! ....oh my god... thats ridiculous!)

"Oh thats real good sir, lets turn our young boys into irresponsible, selfish , egotistical animals with no remorse or compassion for anyone but themselves,"

(I thought we already were...)
(Did I say that?!....No but you are proving it!)

"they are literally getting away with MURDER" ( How? I thought the women got to choose to have the abortions...)
(Yes BASED ON HOW THE MAN REACTS!! IF the man flipps out and screams, degrades her, ignores her, what choice does a woman have?!Based on the MANS REACTION and PRESSURE...they are very much murders themselves, if women get labeled...so should the men. I have had 2 friends that were with their same men from anywhere from a year to almost a year and ahalf and when they both found out they were pregnant *At different times through out my life* One man went so far as to beat my friend up because he was trying to MAKE her MISCARRY!!! and the other guy kicked out my other friend and moved in with his mom and sits on his ass playing playstation all day and refuses to get a job because ...and I quote, "Why should I work? She will get half my check anyway" these were not RANDOM men! These were guys who had been in a committed relationship for up to a year or more!

"and they dont have to bear the cross!!"

(What Cross would that be?)
(Dont badger me... if your that dumb then please do not respond to anymore of my post. I will not be debating with an idiot.)

"While we women have to carry all of these burdens on our own!??!?!?!?!? ARE U KIDDING ME SIR?! ...... Yea... your comprehension is way down on the scale... "


Yep...untold and insurmountable logic.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 03:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Edrick
 


Nearly everything you said in that long post is bigoted, sexist and BS. Men don't work harder than women, and they arent more intelligent. Women do better in tests and college. They do on average get more spacial rewiring back in, and women get more holistic overall wiring joining both hemispheres. Hence at 150 IQ there are more men, though at 120-130 lots of women. That spatial is a job description not a massive IQ perk, for the work that doesnt directly relate to childraising and the holistic relates to it. BOTH ARE EQUAL AND MESH WONDERFULLY, thats why nature designed it that way. But like all things, its a test, to be loving and kind and equal, or demons. This holographic/simulated reality/school/universe is all a test. And its love and equality that progresses the soul.

Now, for the few women that have over 150 IQ's they seem to have both the spatial and the holistic whole brain experience because they seem to perform over the abilities of the men at that level according to tests.

So don't peddle that nonsense in the least. When i was nursing round the clock and putting in 20 hour days with my babies, cat napping for a few moments at best, and running hte household, and my second oldst woke ever 2 hours for a feeding till he was nearly 2, I didn't notice any man doing the same.

What I saw is them coming home and having beers with friends, or resting up and pursing their own interests.

I don't even want to tell you what not getting it, and not walking in others moccasins is like when the curtain raises. For its Ground Hog DAy the movie until they pass the test, for others its walking in the others shoes.



new topics

top topics



 
56
<< 44  45  46    48  49  50 >>

log in

join