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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Edrick


But, every time... there stands a MAN, who is willing (Or forced by the State) to take responsibility (and the consequences) for these womans choices.

-Edrick


edit on 18-9-2010 by Edrick because: (no reason given)

Well who else would be standing there??


Last I heard the only way for a woman to be pregnant is by a man, right?




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


really again? artificial insimination? 2 lesbians want a child, so I guess one of them HAS to have sex with a man to become pregnant.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



Are you actually thinking you can use men accepting the reality of their father hood to a born baby, to promote your anti abortion viewpoint? These are not even similar issues.


WAT?


You are the one transparent, arguing apples and oranges, on the one hand due to an anti abortion stance on the other.


Oh... I see now.... you are assuming that you know my motivations, thoughts, etc....


I don't really Care about abortion...

What I care about, is the Legal double standard that allows women to do whatever they want, and then shackles a man to her (financially) for 18 years...


All so the Family Court system can get a big slice of that Fat money Cake!


That's right.... it's all about Removing money, From Men, and giving it to the State, and Fickle Consumer "Grrls"

So, anyways... back on point.

Your post is based off of an incorrect presumption.

please fix your perspective in order to have a meaningful conversation.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


Having the say at the moment of birth of a live child as to whether or not you are a parent and must be somewhat responsible is not the same thing as having the freedom to terminate a pregnancy. And adoption isnt on most peoples plate, aborting has less emotional baggage and hardship on people. Since the child is only a potential at that point, if its done early enough. The US concept of aborting children with healthy brain development is only done because of the occult ritualists running the country who add these cases to their child sacrifice black magick rituals! Its barbaric to have no early cut off point.


edit on 18-9-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
You did not answer the question regarding the woman not knowing she is pregnant. In case you are not aware, there are many cases of women, particularly with their first pregnancy, not being aware they are pregnant until 6 months has passed. Some girls even go to the hospital in labor complaining of tummy pains, not knowing what the problem is, or birth their baby on the toilet, thinking when they sit down they are just having a big poop.


I don't have the answer to this eventuality. But it's rare.

And I'm sure if there were such a thing as a male abortion, there are women who wouldn't tell the man until his "window of abortion" had passed and he would be legally responsible for the financial care of the child.

Most laws have loopholes and people will work them to get around the issue, but I'm looking for something that would be more fair in MOST cases. As it is now, women have ALL the choices after pregnancy. I'm looking to give men ONE choice after pregnancy.



Do you think your mother, after carrying you in her belly 9 months and birthing you, could then hold you in her arms and say, "I don't wan't you. Someone else can have you."?


Women do it every day! Adoption is a great option for someone who cannot care for their child. Especially young women who don't have the means to care for a baby. Yes, it hurts. It would kill me! But, just like the man, she knows what she's getting into when she engages in pregnancy making activity. SHE'S the one that's going to have to make this difficult decision, so SHE is the one who should be more careful.



For many of us women, we could no more abort a foetus than we could strangle our 10 year olds. It's not a choice, it's not morals, it's just so strongly against our instincts to protect and nourish that we could not.


And I am one of those women. I wouldn't abort my baby unless it threatened my life. That's my choice. You make your choice based on your instinct, but it's still a choice.



Once in this world, these children have a right to be supported by both the parents who created them.


I agree with that. But before it becomes a child, both people should have the same reproductive right to say, "I don't want it". The female shouldn't be the only one that has that right. I am pro-choice. For men AND women.



That's unless you mean that a woman should have to undergo an abortion if the father doesn't want a baby, as your denial of the relevance of born children to the agument appears to imply.


A woman doesn't HAVE to have an abortion. She can provide for the child. MANY women do that. Many women choose every day that they cannot financially support a child and therefore, decide to abort. Why Wmen Abort



Why Do Women Have Abortions? - a statistical breakdown*

- Feels unready for child/responsibility 25%
- Feels she can't afford baby 23%




Procreation is part of life. If a person is determined to have no duty to the child they might create, they should stick to solitaire.


Including women? If a woman is determined that she will have no children and use abortion should she get pregnant, she should keep her knees together?



Male abortion = the removal of the right of the child to know his or her daddy.


If the pregnancy becomes a child, that child would have every right to know the father. Of course, the mother would decide whether or not to tell the child about the father.

I hope that answers your questions to me and if you have others, feel free to ask.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 



Well who else would be standing there??

Last I heard the only way for a woman to be pregnant is by a man, right?


Don't you girlies have the "Gift of Life"?

Precious creatures of God and all that?

it's amazing how often you change your tune when confronted by reality.


But, anyways... you seem to have missed my entire point.

So, Kudos to you on the whole "Keeping with your original theme" thing....


-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 

There are women who are silly and emotional who could never stand up to the rigors of war. There are many men like that too.

Pain tolerance is an individual thing. I've known both men and women who fall apart at a paper cut. I've known some women who've tolerated severe pain without a whimper. Gender has nothing to do with pain tolerance.

I think women deal with sustained violence emotionally much better than men.

Fitness and endurance? There are physical differences that can't be avoided. A woman's hormones dictate that her body prepare for child bearing. A man's hormones dictate that he have muscle mass and strength. It all depends on the woman though as far as fitness is concerned. I do not believe concessions should be made. If she cannot carry the pack at the same weight for the same distance - she can't be there. If she can't do the same work for the same duration she doesn't get the job. True equality only comes with equal tasks.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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Again, I am a woman and a single mother at that.

However, I side with the Mens Rights activists on this issue, because fair is fair.

The women I have brought this issue up to can't stand that fact, yet they are not able to provide a sound argument against it.

The Point: Women have the LEGAL right to decline motherhood at any time, but the father does not. MORALLY, neither party should go around having babies and not take care of them through adulthood, but the Men's RIghts Activist group's issue is not a moral one..its a LEGAL one.....LEGALLY only the woman has the right to decline parenthood and it is socially acceptable, yet the man is called trifiling if he declines.

Double Standard.

Women, we can not say we want to have the same rights as a man, but that man cannot have the same rights as us.


edit on 18-9-2010 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)




edit on 18-9-2010 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



Having the say at the moment of birth of a live child as to whether or not you are a parent and must be somewhat responsible is not the same thing as having the freedom to terminate a pregnancy.


I agree, they are different.

But the only fundamental difference, is whether the child is alive or not.

You could easily replace every instance of "Abortion" with "Give the child up for Adoption" in this thread, and nothing much about the discussion would change.


The basic argument is *THIS*



If a woman participates in Conception, she can kill, keep, or send away the child.

If a man participates in Conception.... she can kill, keep, or send away the child.



The typical response, is a bit of Male-Hate... "He shouldn't have had sex, so be a man, and take responsibility"

But when asked about abortion... there is no "Well, you shouldn't have had sex little girl... now live with the consequences of your inability to keep your legs closed."

Nope... women, off the hook.

Men... Glued and Hog tied to the Hook.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by SeenMyShare
 

exactly lets move away from grouping and stereotyping. Judge all people based on their abilities and who they are and not on their race, gender, religion etc. I wished this was a reality. Sadly I do not think it will come to pass in my lifetime.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



I'm looking to give men ONE choice after pregnancy.


*EXACTLY*!

Because at the end of the day... women will scream about equality and whatnot...

But they want TOTAL control over reproductive rights.... because they KNOW that it is an easy meal ticked from some unsuspecting male.

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by SeenMyShare
 


I'm glad there are women who are silly and men too, who are too sensitive and emotional for WAR. Because WAR is one the karmic traps that keeps you from progressing as a soul and into the hellzones like earth as a school.

WAR IS BARBARIC AND A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!

My 5 boys are raised to be so silly, peace loving and emotional too that they will never ever go to war.

They are being taught that we are to be adults here, that everyone is your relative, The Infinite Family of Light in this holographic/shool universe, AND that anyone who is being aggressive or violent with you, being very negative is a child in a lower grade of school.

So, would they harm a child attacking them. Would you harm your own child attacking you with a knife? Would you kill them, or would you try and talk them out of it, shine light, and use any other means other than lethal ones? Most mature adults would take the blow, not return it to a child!

The war machine is an obscene negative demon channel pyramid system slave camp matrix of lies. It benefits only the mafia lords.

And how does this relate to women, reproductive rights, equality and men taking responsiblity for their born, live offspring?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 
If the father is abdicating his financial or physical duty to his child, why should she NOT whine about it?


He's not abdicating his duty to a child. He's abdicating his responsibility to a fetus. Just exactly as she is doing if she gets an abortion.


Right.....however, UNLIKE the female, who if she does not opt out of the fetus, is facing child support, he gets to walk away from not ONLY the fetus but the resulting legal entity as well. That is why it is an abdication of financial responsibility.



I say how can a man sign away anything at that point except fetus? And really, until parentage is established, the only legally bunding document he could sign would be a declaration his sperm were indeed mixing with her eggs because of sworn sexualy activity. I imagine both parties would have to swear to it as well.

Once born the fetus is a child, and is a legal entity and laws are in place protecting the child.

At this point the contract signing away the fetus becomes admissable as admittance of possible parentage, and would likely become strong evidence against him when the courts get involved.

Any way I look at this concept, I reject it, for all sorts of reasons as I have stated.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


amen and bravo to you!

sadly on this bored I have yet to see a sound argument against it either.


edit on 18-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


i dont know if its necessarily an easy meal ticket only, could just be a matter of power and control that gets tossed around so freely.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by SeenMyShare
 



If she cannot carry the pack at the same weight for the same distance - she can't be there.


And what if she is incapable of accepting responsibility for her actions?

What if she is incapable of piercing the thick veil of emotions that cloud her mind?

Should we still be letting these creatures make decisions in our Governments?

I mean... they are spending *TAX DOLLARS* on "Womens Issues"

I'm pretty sure that is sexist.

And against the Constitution (yes, i'm in America, and I'm sorry)

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 



i dont know if its necessarily an easy meal ticket only, could just be a matter of power and control that gets tossed around so freely.


Well, yeah... women *DO* love power.

(second line is busy)

-Edrick



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
[more you said "Right.....however, UNLIKE the female, who if she does not opt out of the fetus, is facing child support, he gets to walk away from not ONLY the fetus but the resulting legal entity as well. That is why it is an abdication of financial responsibility. "

what about adoption should she not be able to put the child up for adoption?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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*Off topic
Ok because of getting 4 hours of sleep in the last 24 hours, I shall retire from the "festivities" for a while to get some sleep. I shall return after my hopeful sleep coma, and time with the family. Not sure how long I will be gone but I will be back. So if anyone replies to anything I will take care of when I return. Night/morning to all.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Edrick
 


Already answered, Edrick.

A man does have the right to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy.

A man does not have the right to walk away from an unwanted child.




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