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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


so someone with a natural disorder that causes their legs not to work does not have a right to accessible buildings and transportation.Their are thousands of examples where nature puts someone at a disadvantage and we make accommodation for that you treading into dangerous territory with your way of thought.What about homosexuals they are biologically gay and cant not conceive yet the law allows them to adopt or have a artificial birth as a "Right" should we just tell them boo hoo its nature.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jwbmore
reply to post by Hefficide
 


so someone with a natural disorder that causes their legs not to work does not have a right to accessible buildings and transportation.Their are thousands of examples where nature puts someone at a disadvantage and we make accommodation for that you treading into dangerous territory with your way of thought.What about homosexuals they are biologically gay and cant not conceive yet the law allows them to adopt or have a artificial birth as a "Right" should we just tell them boo hoo its nature.


What the hell does any of that have to do with procreation and paternal responsibility?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


So if a women carry's a baby for a gay couple through contract the women should always have a little more right to that child then the two men because she boar the child?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Why is that? Unfainess of biology remember. As an example, and yes I know you are more than likely you are going to say but they are different, and they of cours are, but it also illustrates the point.

Women in the military and various law enforcements are subject to gender norming. In other words to compete with men, they are given different standards than men are. Thhey are basically equilavent requirements to make them equal to man because of biology. So if this is acceptable because of biology in that case, is it not equally acceptable to "gender norm" for male reproductive rights?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


you just generalized my logic that civil rights and natural rights are different and Im pointing out that a lot of civil rights come from natural disadvantages,



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by Jwbmore
reply to post by Hefficide
 


So if a women carry's a baby for a gay couple through contract the women should always have a little more right to that child then the two men because she boar the child?


And to throw more salt in this game - not only does the mother possibly have rights, but so would the biological father.

Surrogacy isn't even remotely related to this issue.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by Annee
 


And I would venture to say you have never been on the opposite side of your arguments? That in itself does not mean people can not make valid conclusions nor opinions.


Are you sure? My younger daughter became pregnant (in her mid 20s) - - - and made the decision not to be with the father of her daughter. He fought to be a dad. I took his side. He's a bit hot headed and manipulative - - causing a lot of unneeded stress - - threatening my daughter to sue for full custody etc. I still took his side - - because he meant it and never stopped being a dad. Today he - his wife and their daughter are like extended family. They spend holidays together and watch each other's kids when needed. They worked it out between them without lawyers.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


My point is women reserve rights men do not involving paternity even under a legal contract just by your own admission no one can tell that women she dose not have a right to that child even tho the father could be one of the homosexual men through insemination and the two never engaged in sex only a written document stating this child is to be given to such and such and because she has to give birth she is not held to that same document.

whats to stop that women from coming after the biological father for support on a deal gone wrong.


edit on 17-9-2010 by Jwbmore because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


But according to society they are.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by sliceNodice
 


So, you support illegal back-alley abortions with coat-hangers?

Way to advocate for progress, pal.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


You asked me if I wanted to hear your story. I do.

I want to know WHY - - and I mean really why - - you are prevented from being a father to your children.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Jwbmore
reply to post by Hefficide
 


My point is women reserve rights men do not involving paternity even under a legal contract just by your own admission no one can tell that women she dose not have a right to that child even tho the father could be one of the homosexual men through insemination and the two never engaged in sex only a written document stating this child is to be given to such and such and because she has to give birth she is not held to that same document.

whats to stop that women from coming after the biological father for support on a deal gone wrong.


edit on 17-9-2010 by Jwbmore because: (no reason given)



Nothing is stopping her from doing so, and the court is set up to decide such issues. And, again, the ultimate answer for the male to remedy this is to NOT impregnate the woman in the first place. Anytime one engages in procreative activities that person is risking becoming a parent who can be legally held responsible. This applies to all parties involved.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


While you may have been in that issue and were level headed when it came to the guys position. The point I was making is this, as far as I know you have not ever been a man, so therefore do not know the mans position. This is not to say you can not empathize with it, nor make valid conclusions as to how it feels.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I am sorry I didnt see you ask. I am not prevented from being a father, In fact I am a father of 4, 2 of my children are from my previous marriage and I have full and sole custody of them. here is a copy and paste from my very firs post on ATS.

Now on to my story it is the short version, so as to not bore people..

I am a 33 year old male. I am also a father to 4 kids. 2 (1 from the ex, and one with my current wife) biological, 1 step child, and 1 who isn't my current wife or mine biologically. I have full custody of the 2 boys from my previous marriage, my oldest (1 biological), and the non bio one. I also am a Marine Corps veteran with two western pacific deployments (leave my family for a 6 month period on a naval ship). i was married to my first wife during my entire time in the Corps. My oldest son was born about 2 years into my 5 1/2 years in. before I left on my second deployment, my ex was pregnant with my chlld. Just before the halfway point of this deployment, my ex decided to get an abortion so she could pursue a relationship with another man. When I got back we tried to reconcile, and she got pregnant again. From what she told me it was my child again so I was there for his birth, and have since been there as dad. Around 6 months of age, I could tell that he wasn't truly mine, but it did not matter because I loved him no matter what. We ended up staying together for about 2 1/2 years after he was born. I finally decided I did not want to stay in the relationship with her because of the signifigant physical, emotional, financial abuse, as well as her meth aabuse problem. It wasn't fair to me, not my kids. So while we were seperated, and in the process of filing the paperwork, the kids would stay with me, wether it was because she was more intererested in getting high or not wanting to be a parent, it didn't matter. Well one day she decided she wanted to keep them after a visit and since there was no paperwork present there was nothing I could do. The next day, I get a call from her asking if she is going to go to jail and nothing else. I drive to her house and the kids were not there, nor was she. The cops were there, and in speaking to them, I found out that the boys have been taken to foster care because they were left alone. Through the preceding social services case that was brought, she told them, that i wasn't my youngest sons father and another man was. So I had to do a dna test.
Not his bio dad. They contacted his bio dad, said wanted nothing to do with him, but does pay his child support on time. Since the ex was found unfit for not completing her treatment plan and the bio dad didnt want to be involoved I got custody of him also. I couldnt be happier. 6The ex was given supervised visitation, to which she went to sporadically, and eventually moved to another city, got married again, and had another child. The visits became less and less, and even more random. Unfortunately, the boys never had any stability because they didnt understand what was going on with their mom saying she was going to come see them and not show, or call and not call. Eventually, I made the decision to stop her visits completly, after she called social services attemtping to stir up trouble, trying to alienate the boys, by saying my wife and I are bad parents. Since then, she has done the same with her daughter from her now finished 2nd marriage. he has custody of their daughter, and no doubt will have to deal with the same issues I ha ve with the boys.
Might I also add, that she owes almost 10k in back child support,and in the 6 years, I have had custody of them, has paid maybe 3 months of child support (mostly when they grab her income tax refund). It has now been almost a year since we have heard from her, and luckily with the love and support my wife and I give, as well as their therapists, and my ex's family, the boys are learning to live with the fact that their mom, will not accept responsibility for her actions,and prolly never will. If no one beleives this or it doesnt suit your logic, and thats fine also, it is a free world after all.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I apologize for not catching the sarcasm. We all make mistakes. I just get so pi**ed off at the ignorance of some people here. And I believe that both people make the baby and both should take responsibility.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
Here are some sourcdes for you to consider in wanting to see the percents of fathers fighting Annne.

* 37.9% of fathers don't have any visitation rights. Source—1991 Census Bureau P-60
* 70% of fathers want to spend more time with their children. Source—1984 Journal of Divorce article by Mary Ann Kock & Carol Lowery
* 77% of non-custodial fathers cannot see their kids due to interference by the custodial parent. Source—1992 study, "Visitational Interference" by Ms. J Annette Vanini, M.S.W. and Edward Nichols, M.S.W.
* 40% of custodial mothers reported interfering with the father's visitation as a means of punishing their ex-husbands. Source—"Frequency of Visitation by Divorced Fathers, Differences in Visitation Reports by Fathers and Mothers." Sanford Braver of Orthopsychiatry


Thanks for the statistics. Unfortunately - - - statistical studies cost money. In order to apply for funds to do a statistical study - - you are required to have an agenda.

Statistics by themselves really mean zilch - - - without the background of who and why the study was conducted. And when it was conducted.

For instance: Journal of Divorce was published 26 years ago. A lot has changed in this area in 26 years.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I will tell you a story Anne I grew up without my father because of many reasons but most of them not his own doing.My mother used the one sided court system to ruin his financial stability not because he paid but because he couldn't afford what they thought he once made and eventually was sent to prison.Then my mother used me and my brother at a young age as way to punish him by telling us lies about him or doing her best to skew our opinion of him so much so we eventually hated him and told this to him until we grew up and every media outlet judge and teacher I ever dealt with taught me that he was trash and my mother was so strong.

Then i grew up and when I turned 20 i met him again and he told me that he left the day we told him to and that he always wanted to be their but knew what we thought of him was controlled and manipulated and that even his own lawyer sat him down to explain how he would never win in the end and that in his experience if he stays we would of went through hell in therapy and custody battles and in the end my mother would still have us and he would look like the enemy.I now have known him longer then another time in my life and i can say everything about the court system is skewed against a man.Not everyone lives the same life



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Or should the women not advertise her womb in the first place if her contractual agreements aren't enforceable its like women have a get out of jail free card whats to stop mass women allowing them self's to be inseminated all in the guise to trap men into paying child support.I am only trying to point out the holes in your logic and that women are not held to the same level of accountability and do reserve rights a man does not even in a case where a women voluntarily become pregnant with a man that never considers that a risk which is inherit-ably unequal



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Thanks. And by the way I admire any man who takes fathering seriously.

When I was in high school back in the 60s - - I had a friend who's mother abandoned her and her 3 siblings. Her father was amazing. Her father was Serian. One of her sisters was blond with blue eyes. He did not care. To him it was his daughter.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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This whole thread can be ended by one phrase and one phrase only....

YOU PLAY YOU PAY

end of discussion




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