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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Hedera Helix
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Doesn't sound like a job at McDonald's to me. Not everybody has/had your opportunities. So where did the mother work and what kind of child support was she paying YOU is what I'm asking... based on your response when I confronted you.


I never said I personally worked at a mcdonalds, was saying if I was in that position I would do what I had to. you asked about a mother who is a maid what kind of child support should be expected. I merely flipped the script and was asking about a man in a similar menaial low paying job.

As for myself, my ex when she did work worked in a call center, for the county government as an admin clerk, and as a CNA. During that time her child support obligation was 196 a month for both boys. I worked during that time in a call center making 10 an hour.

As for opportunities, everyone has the same opportunities I have had. Its all a matter of willpower and want.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by Hefficide
Men already have reproductive rights.

They have the right to keep their pants zipped if they can't step up to the plate.
They also have the right to get the snot kicked out of them by other guys if they fail to exercise their first right.


edit on 9/16/10 by Hefficide because: missed a few words in all the excitement



Wow what a violent Heffer you are.

This is why women are property.. because they can't be rational.


edit on 17-9-2010 by HunkaHunka because: misspelling



Wow. Unenlightened and unable to discern gender!

Bonus points for you.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 


How is it thinking for herself? She admitted it took a long time but her husband finally convinced her to drop her beliefs and take his.


I don't appreciate this at all. And I don't think I deserve it. I'm a VERY independent 53 year old woman and a feminist. So is my husband (not a 53 year old woman, but a feminist). And what's worse is that you know that about me.

Feminism is about EQUAL rights, not the woman having all the rights or taking the men's position away. It's about taking my place alongside men and advocating for EQUAL rights wherever possible.

I'm open-minded and can learn things and change my mind and that's exactly what I did. I did not "drop my beliefs and take his". I changed my mind.





edit on 9/17/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



Amen, that is what feminisism should be, but sadly morphed into another monster entirely. I am sorry if in any of my posts I just put feminists, I should qualify it with a gender feminists tag or something. In fact I often go to ifeminists.com to get a balanced female side to an issue I think about. Defintely a bunch of feminists that make complete sense and stand up for what feminism should be.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:16 AM
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I have a cousin who recently had a baby by a man she was not serious with.
I think the second time they had sex she got pregnant. She did not want
another child, but she didn't want to have an abortion.
So now the baby is 3 months old and she loves little girl very much, despite the fact the baby wasn't planned.

On the other hand the father of the baby has chosen not to participate in the child's life. So why does he get to
walk away? He is an adult who knows that sex can lead a baby or std. My cousin isn't even planning to force child support on him. She is trying to talk to him in hopes that he will be involved. Being an adult involves work and I don't like when some people male or female try to get a free ride or force all responsibility on others.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by xyankee
 

I wholeheartedly agree with this! If a woman becomes pregnant and does not want the baby but the father does he should be allowed to have a court force her to carry this child and hand it over to him. She should also be financially responsible to this child as if the roles were reversed!

Except in the case of rape or life threatening pregnancy I am obviously a pro lifer.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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I am not sold on the idea of a man being able to choose not to pay. Who would opt to pay? The very few men who are responsible enough to pay, are most likely, not going to get themselves into this kind of situation in the first place.

Most unplanned pregnancies occur in high school or college age women, how is a 16 -21 y/o boy/man going to pay? Most come from low income families, so the families are not going to be able to help financially.

I bring this up because it happened to me. At 15 years and 6 months of age, I got a girl pregnant. Both of us came from very poor families, so the state deferred the child support I owed and babies momma was on state aid. Once I turned 18 I was presented with a bill from the state notifying my how much I owed the state in back child support. Well, that pretty much ended any idea's of collge for me, so off to the Navy I went. Child support was automatically deducted, my son had health insurance and whatever little pitance of money I had left went to pay-off back child support. After a few years and raises, I was able to get the debt paid off, but at the same time, everytime my pay went up, the dollar amount of child support went up and that amount is not allowed to go down, regadless of current pay. It was a very frustrating experience. Whenever child support went up, baby momma got a new car. I was still driving my $100 car from high school. She didn't work, go to school or save any of the money for my sons future. It sucked. After my stint in the Navy was up, I said to hell with it and went to college. Knowing full well that I would not be able pay child support and that the state would be after me. I had no choice, I had to get an education in order to get a job that would allow me to pay child support and live. It was a gamble. The gamble paid off, it was close though I was within 3 to 4 months of going to jail for failure to pay child support. (btw, those types of laws make no sense, imprision a guy and there is no way for him to make any money). I got a decent paying job and was able to get caught up again and enjoy life. The best part was that I was able to stop resenting baby momma, which improved our relationship and the relationship with my son.
Child support is now over, although I still help my son now and again with a few bucks here and there.

Overall, if the ruling goes in favor of men, the burden is most likely going to passed to the state and then taxpayers.

One last thing, child support rules need to change. An 18y/o kid shouldn't be saddled with this kind of burden and have no way to improve his lot in life. It creates a cycle of poverty that is very hard to escape unless a few huge chances are taken.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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It's hypocritical not to give the man some say in the matter.

Case: Guy knocks up Girl. Guy doesn't want the kid and says he'd rather go the abortion or adoption route. Girl refuses. The way it works now, Guy has to pay child support. He has no say in the matter, according to the courts. However, if he has no say in the matter, then why is he supporting the child?

Take the argument out of context and replace the situation. This will come out funny, so bear with the idea, lol, and realize that it does have a point. You and a friend are hungry. You both order a pizza. You then decide you don't want any and say that you'll call the place up, tell them to cancel the order. Your friend says no, they want the pizza. Then, they say you're paying half of it.

If you have no say in whether or not to keep the kid, then you shouldn't have a financial responsibility at all. Partnership means partnership, not a one-way street. If a man says he wants to opt for abortion/adoption and the woman says no, then the man should have a legal right to place some sort of contract out there that says he wanted to do that, she refuses, and by doing so, she accepts 100% full responsibility for the child from now on. If she doesn't want to accept 100% full responsibility, she can either put the kid up for adoption or have an abortion. You've got the choice of a unanimous decision (whether it's abortion, adoption, or staying together), the man having sole responsibility or the woman having sole responsibility, and that's it.

By the way, I'm not advocating that people that were reckless should just always abandon their responsibilities. If I had it my way, nobody would ever be stupid enough to accidentally get pregnant/get someone pregnant. Nor am I saying "abortions should be handed out like candy at Halloween". But the argument that a man has no right to bail out of the situation, but a woman does have the right to have an abortion without the father's consent, then that's not the equality we're trying to get, is it?


edit on 17-9-2010 by Etcetera007 because: Added thought



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by SeenMyShare
reply to post by xyankee
 

I wholeheartedly agree with this! If a woman becomes pregnant and does not want the baby but the father does he should be allowed to have a court force her to carry this child and hand it over to him. She should also be financially responsible to this child as if the roles were reversed!

Except in the case of rape or life threatening pregnancy I am obviously a pro lifer.


Should the father also be responsible for all of her medical bills?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


same argument as makeing a man pay for a bay he didnt want



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Teeky
I have a cousin who recently had a baby by a man she was not serious with.
I think the second time they had sex she got pregnant. She did not want
another child, but she didn't want to have an abortion.
So now the baby is 3 months old and she loves little girl very much, despite the fact the baby wasn't planned.

On the other hand the father of the baby has chosen not to participate in the child's life. So why does he get to
walk away? He is an adult who knows that sex can lead a baby or std. My cousin isn't even planning to force child support on him. She is trying to talk to him in hopes that he will be involved. Being an adult involves work and I don't like when some people male or female try to get a free ride or force all responsibility on others.


And I am glad that she stepped up, he should too, but sadly probably wont, to answer your question about why he should be able to walk away. She had the power to choose the course of action and choose, she did not want to have an abortion. That is more say than he got. They both knew that a baby could result, only she has a say and he doesnt. I do not think anyone should get a free ride, i believe if someone does something they should have consequences to deal with plain and simple. With the laws we have today one side of the equation gets an out of the consequences and the other doesnt.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
reply to post by xyankee
 

I wholeheartedly agree with this! If a woman becomes pregnant and does not want the baby but the father does he should be allowed to have a court force her to carry this child and hand it over to him. She should also be financially responsible to this child as if the roles were reversed!

Except in the case of rape or life threatening pregnancy I am obviously a pro lifer.


Should the father also be responsible for all of her medical bills?


If that was the situation then yes he should, he made that choice, and has to deal with the consequence of paying her bills.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Etcetera007
 

How in the name of all that's holy do you equate a child with buying a pizza? It's apples and oranges.

If both lie down then both should stand up. Period. I am not even considering abortion an option though.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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If I just took my husband's position on things, I would believe:

1. That a man has no intrinsic right to a child that he created in a one-night-stand (a "biological accident" he calls it.)
2. That an absentee father (or mother) has no intrinsic right to claim his child and become part of his or her life
3. That a man should be able to force a woman to have his child IF it was planned and IF he takes ALL responsibility for the child

I don't agree with any of these positions that my crazy husband holds and I never will.
But I am a reasonable person and can see that the current reproductive rights of men and women are VERY unequal and could be made more equal. The "male abortion" is one way to do that.


edit on 9/17/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 

I'll repeat my stance....... If both lie down, both should stand up.

There is not one person old enough to do the deed who doesn't realize the full set of consequences resulting from their actions. They should split the bills from beginning to 18.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Ur delusional. Land of opportunity... right??? LOL. This is when "Where there's a will... there's a way," rears it's ugly head, my friend. Right now (because our country is BROKE) they're knocking off nursing home residents so that able bodied individuals can get gov't handouts in their time of need. Is this satisfactory with you???

If these people don't have the money to pay child support (we have a shortage of decent paying jobs... remember???) which peter do they all plan to knock off in order to pay paul???



edit on 17/9/2010 by Hedera Helix because: I had an afterthought... is that okay with you???



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by jacksmoke
I am not sold on the idea of a man being able to choose not to pay. Who would opt to pay? The very few men who are responsible enough to pay, are most likely, not going to get themselves into this kind of situation in the first place.

Most unplanned pregnancies occur in high school or college age women, how is a 16 -21 y/o boy/man going to pay? Most come from low income families, so the families are not going to be able to help financially.

I bring this up because it happened to me. At 15 years and 6 months of age, I got a girl pregnant. Both of us came from very poor families, so the state deferred the child support I owed and babies momma was on state aid. Once I turned 18 I was presented with a bill from the state notifying my how much I owed the state in back child support. Well, that pretty much ended any idea's of collge for me, so off to the Navy I went. Child support was automatically deducted, my son had health insurance and whatever little pitance of money I had left went to pay-off back child support. After a few years and raises, I was able to get the debt paid off, but at the same time, everytime my pay went up, the dollar amount of child support went up and that amount is not allowed to go down, regadless of current pay. It was a very frustrating experience. Whenever child support went up, baby momma got a new car. I was still driving my $100 car from high school. She didn't work, go to school or save any of the money for my sons future. It sucked. After my stint in the Navy was up, I said to hell with it and went to college. Knowing full well that I would not be able pay child support and that the state would be after me. I had no choice, I had to get an education in order to get a job that would allow me to pay child support and live. It was a gamble. The gamble paid off, it was close though I was within 3 to 4 months of going to jail for failure to pay child support. (btw, those types of laws make no sense, imprision a guy and there is no way for him to make any money). I got a decent paying job and was able to get caught up again and enjoy life. The best part was that I was able to stop resenting baby momma, which improved our relationship and the relationship with my son.
Child support is now over, although I still help my son now and again with a few bucks here and there.

Overall, if the ruling goes in favor of men, the burden is most likely going to passed to the state and then taxpayers.

One last thing, child support rules need to change. An 18y/o kid shouldn't be saddled with this kind of burden and have no way to improve his lot in life. It creates a cycle of poverty that is very hard to escape unless a few huge chances are taken.



agreed that the burden would go to the state and tax payers, but shouldnt that burden be on the one who made the choice. I realize that isnt realistic per se, but it would be nice if people took care of their obligations.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Here's how my hubby puts it:

If you stick your Hoo Hoo in the Woo Woo without a Raincoat and it Rains - - YOU are responsible - Period!



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Hedera Helix
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Ur delusional. Land of opportunity... right??? LOL. This is when "Where there's a will... there's a way." rears it's ugly head, my friend. Right now (because our country is BROKE) they're knocking off nursing home residents so that able bodied individuals can get gov't handouts in their time of need. Is this satisfactory with you???


How is that delusional? You know nothing about my background nor what I went through to get to where I am except what I have posted on here, and that is merely the tip of the iceberg of what I have. Our country is broke yea, does that mean there isnt opportunity not at all you just have to know where to look and go after it. If life places an obstacle in your path go over, around, or through it. Let nothing stop you. Is it hard, f yeah, but it can be done I am living proof.

As for knocking off old people no it isnt acceptable, but that really has nothing to do with what we are talking about now does it. I for one have never nor do I plan to ever do anything of that nature.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by joechip
 


Even though I am a single female parent, I HAVE TO AGREE.

Bravo!!!!!

This is a perfect example of "As long as you don't say anything, we won't say anything."

This is only fair because they are correct. As a woman, if I had an unwanted / unplanned pregnacy, not only do I have the right to neglect (adoption) but I have the right to murder (abortion).



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


If the same held true for the woman, I would agree with him.
My whole position is equality. And since abortion is a legal and valid way for a woman to say, "I don't want this responsibility that I've gotten into", I think the man should have the same option, if possible.

If abortion was illegal, then the man should have to step up and do his part, too.



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