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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


I'm afraid your ex wife found a loop hole in the child support system.....marriage! Everything goes in to her new husband's name so she can't be touched. Same goes with the fathers, they too remarry and hide everything in their new wives names.

Sorry mate, your suituation is the most common on the books with the Child Support Agencies worldwide. Any non-custodial parent should pay child support and the minimum amount should cover 50% of the basic day to day neccessities of the child. Anything after that is a bonus.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Of course it is, as it is the males choice to engage in pregnancy producing behavior.


The woman chose to engage in pregnancy producing behavior, too. And if the law provided for the "male abortion", she would be aware of what possibilities she may face. She may be faced with:

Having an abortion
Having a child with the man's financial support
Having a child without the man's financial support.



You are saying if she cannot afford it she can choose to abort. If she has it and cannot afford it tough because the man get soff scott free.


If she gets pregnant and the man WANTS the baby, even wants to take 100% financial and other responsibilities, he has no choice in the matter. She can have an abortion and get off scot-free. I don't know why you're not seeing the other side of this.




No way is this scenerio anywhere near right. It 100 percent gives the man a free waltz while leaving the woman two agonizingly difficult choices.


The woman already has a free waltz, according to current law. She can walk away, with NO concern for what the man wants. For a woman, engaging in pregnancy producing behavior, is a risk. And she knows what they are. She may have to make a difficult choice.


Both knew the outcomes involved in engaging in sex yet one can just walk away and never look back.


And a woman can have an abortion and never look back.

Look, it's going to be an agonizing decision for SOME men to give up all rights and responsibilities for a child, just as it's an agonizing decision for SOME women to have an abortion. Some women have them without a second thought and some men would sign this paper and never look back. All men aren't scum-bags, just looking for a way to get out of their responsibilities in life.

By the way, I used to feel the same way you do about it until I spent HOURS discussing it with my husband.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 



You're speaking from personal experience... correct???

Second line.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by mayertuck
 


I'm afraid your ex wife found a loop hole in the child support system.....marriage! Everything goes in to her new husband's name so she can't be touched. Same goes with the fathers, they too remarry and hide everything in their new wives names.

Sorry mate, your suituation is the most common on the books with the Child Support Agencies worldwide. Any non-custodial parent should pay child support and the minimum amount should cover 50% of the basic day to day neccessities of the child. Anything after that is a bonus.


no need to apologize, as I said in a previous post it doesnt really bother me, I struggled and luckily a couple of years after I got divorced got remarried and finally today am at a place where things are going to be ok. Its not so much as her getting away with anything, more on the level of as illustration of the ridiculiousness of the situation and how one side wants to completly say that men do not have valid concerns, and only women's concern matters. Both sides have valid concerns that should be solved.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Hedera Helix
reply to post by mayertuck
 



You're speaking from personal experience... correct???

Second line.


absolutely! read my first post for some background, Went to school used my gi bill to live on while working. Got my degree and now work for IBM. Was it tight hell yes, did I end up getting food stamps to survive hell yes. Was I still there for my kids hell yes. They are my obligation, responsibility, and joy, and would I do it again without hesitation.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Of course it is, as it is the males choice to engage in pregnancy producing behavior.


The woman chose to engage in pregnancy producing behavior, too. And if the law provided for the "male abortion", she would be aware of what possibilities she may face. She may be faced with:

Having an abortion
Having a child with the man's financial support
Having a child without the man's financial support.



You are saying if she cannot afford it she can choose to abort. If she has it and cannot afford it tough because the man get soff scott free.


If she gets pregnant and the man WANTS the baby, even wants to take 100% financial and other responsibilities, he has no choice in the matter. She can have an abortion and get off scot-free. I don't know why you're not seeing the other side of this.




No way is this scenerio anywhere near right. It 100 percent gives the man a free waltz while leaving the woman two agonizingly difficult choices.


The woman already has a free waltz, according to current law. She can walk away, with NO concern for what the man wants. For a woman, engaging in pregnancy producing behavior, is a risk. And she knows what they are. She may have to make a difficult choice.


Both knew the outcomes involved in engaging in sex yet one can just walk away and never look back.


And a woman can have an abortion and never look back.

Look, it's going to be an agonizing decision for SOME men to give up all rights and responsibilities for a child, just as it's an agonizing decision for SOME women to have an abortion. Some women have them without a second thought and some men would sign this paper and never look back. All men aren't scum-bags, just looking for a way to get out of their responsibilities in life.

By the way, I used to feel the same way you do about it until I spent HOURS discussing it with my husband.


amen pretty much what I have been trying to say but prolly failing, since way past bedtime, and I have to be up in about 5 hours for another 12 hour shift. And there is hope, it takes alot to get rid of the hogwash that gets fed to you in that or any idealogy and think for yourself.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by AzoriaCorp

Originally posted by sticky



How is that at all failed logic?


You seem to imply that men are the problem for women getting pregnant. Women are just as responsible therefore, I replied by saying, women should just get a hysterectomy to avoid pregnancy; if we're going to throw around such biased remarks. Vesectomies are not always reversable. Is some cases damage is done and cannot reversed.


I'm a man! This idea comes from a MAN! Not a woman.

Its irrelevant what your gender is. I'm addressing your statements.


Nobody is putting a gun to your head to do it. You choose to.


Both parties choose to, therefore, both parties are accountable.



Yep, you're 100% correct, both parties are currently accountable.

It doesn't matter wether or not I agree that men should have more rights in the situation. They probably aren't ever going to get more rights. The mans only route is to be abstinent, or sterilized to become 100% sure that he can't be held accountable for creating offspring.

There is no other way around this. Sex, not rape, is done between two consenting people. When they choose to do the action, the results can be unexpected.

You're twisting my words, my reference to "You choose to" meant that you choose to have a vasectomy to eliminate the possiblity. Not sure what you thought it meant. You choose to have a vasectomy, (reversal success declines with age) to protect yourself.

I'm all for the idea that I should be able to waive my rights as a father in many cases, but not all. A woman has an unexpected pregnancy and decides to move to Alaska to have the baby and live with a relative. You're screwed as a man. Yes, there is a need for these laws to be reviewed.

In the meantime, we can choose to remedy the situations which are in our control.


edit on 17-9-2010 by sticky because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


I don't know if you have a daughter or not but I do and she's about to start her life in the real world. If she were to fall pregnant outside of marriage I would convience her to have an abortion and even go so far as to make the appointment. No ifs or buts. I don't give a stuff what the father of the unborn child wants either way. If it happened to my son, I'll be sh1ting myself because if the young lady decided to have the child I would want to be part of it's life regardless of my son's feelings however I'd expect him to do the right thing and stick by her no matter what.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


How is it thinking for herself? She admitted it took a long time but her husband finally convinced her to drop her beliefs and take his. Fine I am all for freedoms, and will not stop someone from changing their mind. But do not call it thinking for yourself, the mate is an awfully influencial figure in one's life, that absolutely cannot be denied.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by sticky
 


I may have misunderstood your intentions. Apologies, but yes, current laws that share a bias with either gender need reviewed and if possible, put to a referendum, to resolve these very issues. I am all about letting the people decide. Not a judge or court of appointees decide what law is or what is right or wrong.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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Yeah yeah yeah....
Second line: don't put it there if you don't want to put up.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Doesn't sound like a job at McDonald's to me. Not everybody has/had your opportunities. So where did the mother work and what kind of child support was she paying YOU is what I'm asking... based on your response when I confronted you.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:57 AM
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Once a couple forms a pregnancy, the woman has 3 choices:

1. Abortion
2. Adoption (requires the man's consent)
3. Parenthood

In the name of gender equality, the man should have as many of those choices as we can manage.

Adoption is the only option in which the man has a choice. If the child is born, he can prevent the child's adoption by taking custody of the child IF the woman doesn't want it. Otherwise, the man has NO options.

Parenthood is left totally up to the woman - the man has no rights as to whether or not he becomes a parent
Abortion is left totally up to the woman - the man has no rights as to whether or not he becomes a parent

I just think that if we CAN make it more equal, we should.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by mayertuck
 


I don't know if you have a daughter or not but I do and she's about to start her life in the real world. If she were to fall pregnant outside of marriage I would convience her to have an abortion and even go so far as to make the appointment. No ifs or buts. I don't give a stuff what the father of the unborn child wants either way. If it happened to my son, I'll be sh1ting myself because if the young lady decided to have the child I would want to be part of it's life regardless of my son's feelings however I'd expect him to do the right thing and stick by her no matter what.


I in fact do, of the for my daughter is the youngest at 4, so still some time before I have to deal with that with her thank god. And see thats where I have the issue, I do belive in taking responsibility or being accountable for ones actions regardless of who you are. Everything we do in life has a consequence, whether good or bad, and I try to teach my kids if you make that choice it is up to you to deal with the consequences. You do not run from them. My other 3 kids are boys with the oldest turning 13 next month same thing for them. I will do my best to be there for them, but ultimately it is up to them to handle their consequences. I do not believe in double standards in any form. Whether this mindset changes as I get older remains to be seen lol.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 


How is it thinking for herself? She admitted it took a long time but her husband finally convinced her to drop her beliefs and take his.


I don't appreciate this at all. And I don't think I deserve it. I'm a VERY independent 53 year old woman and a feminist. So is my husband (not a 53 year old woman, but a feminist). And what's worse is that you know that about me.

Feminism is about EQUAL rights, not the woman having all the rights or taking the men's position away. It's about taking my place alongside men and advocating for EQUAL rights wherever possible.

I'm open-minded and can learn things and change my mind and that's exactly what I did. I did not "drop my beliefs and take his". I changed my mind.





edit on 9/17/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by freedomintruth
 


How did abortion creep into this issue?

You know, if I have sex with a woman and the condom breaks and she doesn't want the child, I'm not going to complain. If she wants the child, then I have to own up to it and contribute somehow, depending on what kind of involvement the mother wants (child support, actually being in the child's life).

To be safe, I'll just keep it in my pants.

But to think that a man has some kind of "right" to opt-out of being a father is to overlook one of the biggest ills of today's society. Even if a child doesn't have a father, having some kind of male figure in it's life may help it, even if it's a masculine woman or a grandfather or uncle or so forth.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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This is always a sticky situation but my thoughts come down to this. The level of commitment and risk from a biological standpoint is much greater for the female of the species then the male (for Humans anyway). Thus from my point of view, while a woman should always take into consideration her male counterpart, when push comes to shove the womans say is final.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 


How is it thinking for herself? She admitted it took a long time but her husband finally convinced her to drop her beliefs and take his. Fine I am all for freedoms, and will not stop someone from changing their mind. But do not call it thinking for yourself, the mate is an awfully influencial figure in one's life, that absolutely cannot be denied.



I never said that a mate doesnt influence ones opinions they do. But no one can control someones thoughts. After talking to her husband rationally about it for hours, and actually listening ( I would wager) she looked at her previous thoughts and decided that they were wrong. Plain and simple.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Becoming
 

How do you figure the woman (who is raising this child) isn't paying? She's paying more than the man no matter the child support award. She has prenatal care to pay for, a hospital and doctor bill to pay for, diapers, food, a roof, clothing, more doctor bills, more medication, shots, school items, more food, more clothing... need I go on?

My son's father was ordered to pay (I kid you not!!) $15 a month. In 18 years my son received $15 total in child support. Who do you supposed "payed" the rest?

About fathers rights? No man or court would ever force me to have an abortion. I'd rather no support than be forced to murder my own child. If he wants nothing to do with his child, fine. I can live with that. If he wants to raise my child he better be prepared to fight tooth and nail - just as I would.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


and sex this sex that you didnt even read the article oh well seems to be the trend,the guy was fighting for custody of his kid and they gave it to his dead babys mommas aunt he didnt sleep with that lady yet she has the kid how is that fair? so sex has nothing to do with what i cited othen then the fact that a child with his dna that he helped in fathering is forbbidden to see him because of the aunt as the aritcle quoted i dont think if a lady wanted the kid that they would then give it to a random uncle



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