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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Hypothetically, lets say all men became much more concerned about getting someone knocked up, how long exactly do you think they would last not having sex?
I agree that abstinence works but i also agree that sex is part of a healthy lifestyle of both genders.
I can only conclude that if your idea of abstinence was put into place, it would not hold out. Especially when we live in world with alcohol and a media that sex's up even car insurance adverts.
But don’t get me wrong, its a good idea, its just that its not practical.
I still think a man should be allowed to decline fatherhood IF if he used contraception




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Since when is exercising the choice to abort not taking responsibility?


It is part of a females valid legal and responsible birth control choices.

I am sorry you feel the need to degrade the woman by acting like abortion is not a valid legal responsible choice, and even comparing it to not paying child support or shirking parental duties as a father is disgusting reprehensive and very telling.



Yes but what I think you are failing to see, is that the male can choose an abortion as well... the only difference is that this form of abortion doesn't kill a child... it simply releases him from any legal conscription to pay for that which he doesn't want.

If he didn't want it why was he having sex in the first place?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by mayertuck

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Since when is exercising the choice to abort not taking responsibility?


It is part of a females valid legal and responsible birth control choices.

I am sorry you feel the need to degrade the woman by acting like abortion is not a valid legal responsible choice, and even comparing it to not paying child support or shirking parental duties as a father is disgusting reprehensive and very telling.


Please show me where it says that abortion is birth control? It is not birth control, it does not prevent a pregnancy. No matter how you cut it is taking action after the fact.


edit on 17-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)

If scooping my uterus of it's contents is not preventing pregnancy what is?


Are you serious? You want to say people need biology 101 and you seriously say that scooping out your uterus is preventing pregnancy? How are you preventing something that has already happened? Once you have the need to scoop something out guess what you are PREGNANT.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Personally I think any parent who doesn't want to be a parent should be legally allowed to deny any rights and responsibilities that come along with it.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by nagabonar
 


Honour killings might be against Islam but it's not against Sharia Law - and it DOES go on in Islamic countries quite often. I know about each and every case in the past 5 years that made it in to the media. Just recently there was a case in the Palestinian West Bank, afew months ago another in Jordan and more recently just in Iran (among the Kurds) and Afghanistan.

No honour killings in Islam you say?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


hotbakedtater- - I know what you mean, but for the sake of semantics, I would change your post to say "preventing birth" and not "preventing pregnancy".



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Mayer: you are talking about pregnancy control... which is not BIRTH control... BIRTH happens after or during a pregnancy... you can CONTROL BIRTH even after conception.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Non-custodial fathers who pay little or nothing in child support far outweigh the non-custodial mothers who also don't pay.



Only because of the numbers of noncustodial fathers outweighs the mothers, why I said percentages.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Personally I think any parent who doesn't want to be a parent should be legally allowed to deny any rights and responsibilities that come along with it.


Hah!!

HunkaHunka, master of the universe. Tell me, why do you think it should be allowed for people to run around and have sex and leave their babies in dumpsters?

Oh... but when I put it like that, that's not what you mean...

Really? Because that's where they end up basically. Except, the only difference is, that you want it to all be on the tax-payer's dime.

So...basically.. we should all be legally responsible to pay for others to run around, have sex, and drop their babies in dumpsters, without any consequences.

You, my friend, are truly mad.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by joechip
 


Which only proves that children are society's weapon of choice. This belief after recently witnessing a retro-abortion 31 years after the fact.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Since when is exercising the choice to abort not taking responsibility?


It is part of a females valid legal and responsible birth control choices.

I am sorry you feel the need to degrade the woman by acting like abortion is not a valid legal responsible choice, and even comparing it to not paying child support or shirking parental duties as a father is disgusting reprehensive and very telling.



Yes but what I think you are failing to see, is that the male can choose an abortion as well... the only difference is that this form of abortion doesn't kill a child... it simply releases him from any legal conscription to pay for that which he doesn't want.

If he didn't want it why was he having sex in the first place?


Instinct...

I dont have sex because I want children... I have sex because I'm driven by my instincts.... now I try to make sure that those instincts dont run over my own good sense of what I like, etc.... However, when I have sex, its only been twice in my life in which the intent was to have a child.

It sounds like you are buying the Thomas Aquinas BS of what "sex is for"....



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Yes but what I think you are failing to see, is that the male can choose an abortion as well... the only difference is that this form of abortion doesn't kill a child... it simply releases him from any legal conscription to pay for that which he doesn't want.


And that is somehow better? He has no responsibilities to the well-being of an already born child and you think that is somehow better? You don't think that hurts the child?


edit on 17-9-2010 by DoomsdayRex because: (no reason given)



Would you rather the father stay around, resent the child and remind the child about that every moment like my own father?

I would have been better off if he would have just left.

I don't think you are thinking clearly enough to see that if a parent doesnt want to have a child, that its a bad idea to force them to.
Um because this same parent who does not want a child is also not engaging in the only activity on the planet known for producing living beings nine months later?






edit on 17-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: e



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Personally I think any parent who doesn't want to be a parent should be legally allowed to deny any rights and responsibilities that come along with it.


Hah!!

HunkaHunka, master of the universe. Tell me, why do you think it should be allowed for people to run around and have sex and leave their babies in dumpsters?


Oh... but when I put it like that, that's not what you mean...

Really? Because that's where they end up basically. Except, the only difference is, that you want it to all be on the tax-payer's dime.

So...basically.. we should all be legally responsible to pay for others to run around, have sex, and drop their babies in dumpsters, without any consequences.

You, my friend, are truly mad.



No I am not mad. I never said the government, tax payers or whatever should take responsibility... just whoever wants the child.

If no one wants the child... well then I guess natural selection occurs.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Personally I think any parent who doesn't want to be a parent should be legally allowed to deny any rights and responsibilities that come along with it.


Yes, but do you agree that people should be sleeping around without using any form of protection AND then saying they dont want anything to do with the offspring? Thats bad for society. You'll create a lost generation with no direction, not to mention the spread of STI's would most likely hit the roof.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 
Another misrepresentation. I don't do personal attacks of other members. What I am engaging in called debate. I am presenting my case, and responding to opposing points.



if you are practicing debate, then why all the fallacies? To debate you argue the points and nothing else. Feelings and emotions should not be part of the equation.
Then I have a fallacy, I am only human. I have feelings, especially on this topic. Does it negate my points because I am passionate about the subject?

Last time I looked this is not a formal judged debate.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by kokoro

Originally posted by mayertuck

A woman can walk away at any time (through abortion not being there, etc) , how do I know this my ex wife has, and that is fine, so yeah the responsibility is on me to be there for my children and one that isn't mine with an absent parent. And I still feel the way I do. Have I filed for child support yes I have, does shed pay it nope. Thats ok also. No matter what she chooses to do I HAVE a responsibility to give my children the best life I can. You can not make someone do something they do not want to due.


Yes i guess she can but by overwhelming statsitics it is most often the man. There are by far more single mothers than single fathers but I think this should go for women who walk away as well. No you cannot make someone be a parent but yoiu can try to make them take at least financial responibility through the courts , that may not always work as you say but why take away the option to try? BTW i commend you for stepping up to the plate.

There is no need to commend me my kids are my world, I knew the score before going into the game and take responsibility for my actions, and am very glad I do. While you are correct about the statistics, have you ever asked why there are so many single mother than fathers? Is it just guys walking away or is it something else? bias in the courts, mother trying to keep dad away, violating parenting agreement etc?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


I say it is a cultural thing and has nothing to do with Islam. Islam forbids honor killings. I have never heard of honor killings in your neighbor country - Indonesia, a country with 200 million muslims.



Murder is murder, and it is condemned in Islam to kill anyone, since all life is holy and belongs to Allah (God). “…if any one slew a person...it would be as if he slew the whole mankind: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind.” [Quran: 5:32] Honour killing is a sick and vile act and is not Islamic, but cultural. Therefore, those who are doing it and claiming to do it, 'in the name of God' are nothing but transgressors. Peace~


answers.yahoo.com



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


HunkaHunka...

sex is for babies. It has the wonderful side effect of feeling good.

But I doubt that nature is spreading its seed everywhere for the purpose of just feeling good.

If all life on this planet worried about whether something felt good all the time, hardly any work would get done.

Yes, there is a greater purpose than to "get off" in this life.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Yes but what I think you are failing to see, is that the male can choose an abortion as well... the only difference is that this form of abortion doesn't kill a child... it simply releases him from any legal conscription to pay for that which he doesn't want.


And that is somehow better? He has no responsibilities to the well-being of an already born child and you think that is somehow better? You don't think that hurts the child?


edit on 17-9-2010 by DoomsdayRex because: (no reason given)



Would you rather the father stay around, resent the child and remind the child about that every moment like my own father?

I would have been better off if he would have just left.

I don't think you are thinking clearly enough to see that if a parent doesnt want to have a child, that its a bad idea to force them to.
Um because this same parent who does not want a child is also not engaging in the only activity on the planet known for producing living beings nine moneths later?



edit on 17-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: v




Using your logic, you should be responsible for cleaning up the landfills of the world and dumps....

look life happens.... deal with it... legally trying to relieve your stress by putting (or sharing) that stress on someone else is just ridiculous.

If you don't want to raise the child then you shouldnt have to PERIOD. If someone else wants to, then let them... if there is no one left standing to take the child... OH WELL!



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Really? Because, today's court system makes it possible for a child to pose extreme risks to a father's freedom, wallet, and social status.


There are no "extreme" risks to a father's freedom, wallet or social status, no more extreme than a woman's. The non-custodial parent's responsibility begins and ends with their pocketbook. Nothing else. They do not have the same responsibilities or burdens the custodial parent does.


Originally posted by TarzanBeta
A father may not get stretch marks, but he most certainly would have little reason to have a nice body after the fact.


If you think stretch-marks are the greatest complication of pregnancy, you are sorely ignorant.



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