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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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Maybe a little bit off topic, but nevertheless might be interesting to point out:

In Islam if a father does not care about his biological child for a certain time period, he looses all rights to be called the father of that child. BUT this also means that the father does not have to pay a penny anymore for that child, in child support etc. , in case he divorces his wife until the wife stops weaning.

This rule applies in Islamic countries with Sharia law or some degree of Sharia law, but also in democratic countries with a majority of Muslims such as Indonesia and Malaysia.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by airspoon
Well then the women can get an abortion if the man also chooses not to have a child. Why should the woman get the choice if she isn't ready to have a child but the man doesn't?


Going out on a limb here, and I know this is a stretch, but it might have something to do with the fact it is her body and her life that will be affected the most; a father assumes no risks whatsoever to his life-and-limb during pregnancy and childbirth.

I think this is more about controlling women than "father rights".



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


You can do only one thing....

Give moral support to the woman in question and discuss all options like responsible adults. I'm sure two sane people would come to a sane decision (abortion or not).

Running away does no one any good.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by hotbakedtater


A man does have access to 100 percent effective contraception.

Seems easier to me to use that method (abstinence) then to let the world know they are a dead beat by trying to "decline fatherhood".

The time to decline fatherhood is before it happens.



Now that would be ideal wouldn’t it? But the reality is that both genders love to have sex and sometimes, that results in unplanned pregnancy. I believe the 8 page discussion is about the rights of the father and not a guide of how to not get knocked up.
Maybe it is about not getting knocked up because that is the only way a man can shirk his duty to fatherhood...by not becoming a father and by not engaging ina ctivity that produces children.

I assumed a biology lesson were needed, especially for those backing such reprehensible nonsense as the OP puts forth.

This is about two things, money and being ble to have sex at will with anyone and walk away if the end result is a baby.

Two things it seems overwhelmingly apparent men place great value upon, if this thread and the OP is any gage of manhood.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by nagabonar
This rule applies in Islamic countries with Sharia law or some degree of Sharia law, but also in democratic countries with a majority of Muslims such as Indonesia and Malaysia.


That is all well and good but under Sharia law women are no better than chattel slaves.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by hotbakedtater


A man does have access to 100 percent effective contraception.

Seems easier to me to use that method (abstinence) then to let the world know they are a dead beat by trying to "decline fatherhood".

The time to decline fatherhood is before it happens.



Now that would be ideal wouldn’t it? But the reality is that both genders love to have sex and sometimes, that results in unplanned pregnancy. I believe the 8 page discussion is about the rights of the father and not a guide of how to not get knocked up.
Maybe it is about not getting knocked up because that is the only way a man can shirk his duty to fatherhood...by not becoming a father and by not engaging ina ctivity that produces children.

I assumed a biology lesson were needed, especially for those backing such reprehensible nonsense as the OP puts forth.

This is about two things, money and being ble to have sex at will with anyone and walk away if the end result is a baby.

Two things it seems overwhelmingly apparent men place great value upon, if this thread and the OP is any gage of manhood.


wow you hit the nail on the head, and for females they are able to choose to (abortion is having sex with anyone and walking away if pregnancy occurs) have those to things. Equality again men should have the same options.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 
Another misrepresentation. I don't do personal attacks of other members. What I am engaging in called debate. I am presenting my case, and responding to opposing points.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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Good, this will save me a lot of trouble. I always make my girlfriends sign consent / release of liability form before any activities...



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


well, Indonesia is the most populous muslim country in the world, but does not apply Sharia law in all but 1 province out of 30 something provinces. Believe me woman here are equal in all aspects, but nevertheless this law applies.

A friend of mine has 2 kids from his first marriage (divorced) but does not have to pay a anything.....



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 


Hate to nitpick but I cannot stand to be misrepresented. I certainly did not bring the word cheap into the conversation. Please go back and make note of who did. You did.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by mayertuck
I agree its is a consequence, but it is a consequence that she chooses to do to not accept responsibility. Yea its not cheap, but compared with 18 years of child support is definetly the cheaper option is it not?

So if I am reading you correctly, you are saying that she is being responsible by getting an abortion because its birth control?

I was under the impression the aim of birth control was to prevent pregnancy in the first place. If the aim of birth control is to prevent pregnancy then how is getting an abortion truly facing the consequence of having sex?


edit on 17-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



I have addressed your points you just do not like how I have done so.

"


And as I said before I freely admit that I brought it up, it was simply a matter of fact, if you take emotions out of the equation and look at it financially it is cheaper. Now humans are more than finances, so emotionally they pay a higher price, but that is their choice.

Secondly you have not addressed my points? Even in the post you quoted I asked if the goal of birth control is to PREVENT pregnancy, then how is abortion taking responsibility for the pregnancy? Also earlier, I asked about boys that were statutorily raped by women and have to pay child support, how you felt about that, and now that I think about it whether they are scumbags as you put it.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by nagabonar
 


Wrong!

In Islam if you got a woman pregnant that is not your wife either you are forced to marry her or her family come after you with guns blazing. In some cases, the young woman is arrested and stoned to death or the men of her family kill her.

In regards to a divorce, she looses all rights of custody/visitation and the children automatically go to the father until they turn 18 years of age.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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All this will do if passed is increase abortion rates in America, as if they werent already sickeningly high. Men already have the option to walk away and have nothing to do with a baby. As it is now all we ask of him is that if you dont want to be emotionally invested you at least need to pay for some of the cost of the baby's care. I do not think that is unreasonable. If you take that away from an already burdened single parent then how is she to cope at all? This is just pure selfishness on the part of these men. This will only leave her with the choice of abortion or lifelong poverty.

I agree with previous posters that if you do not want the responibility then keep your pants up. However, I realize that in todays society that is not pracitcal.

Men need to look at it from the standpoint that if you were the ones to carry a baby, and if ulimately the responibility fell on you, absent another parent, wouldnt you want the option of making them help by payng? As it stands even now men arent affected in the same ways by the birth of a child, you can walk away at any time, a woman cannot.




edit on 17-9-2010 by kokoro because: spelling



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by hotbakedtater


A man does have access to 100 percent effective contraception.

Seems easier to me to use that method (abstinence) then to let the world know they are a dead beat by trying to "decline fatherhood".

The time to decline fatherhood is before it happens.



Now that would be ideal wouldn’t it? But the reality is that both genders love to have sex and sometimes, that results in unplanned pregnancy. I believe the 8 page discussion is about the rights of the father and not a guide of how to not get knocked up.
Maybe it is about not getting knocked up because that is the only way a man can shirk his duty to fatherhood...by not becoming a father and by not engaging ina ctivity that produces children.

I assumed a biology lesson were needed, especially for those backing such reprehensible nonsense as the OP puts forth.

This is about two things, money and being ble to have sex at will with anyone and walk away if the end result is a baby.

Two things it seems overwhelmingly apparent men place great value upon, if this thread and the OP is any gage of manhood.


wow you hit the nail on the head, and for females they are able to choose to (abortion is having sex with anyone and walking away if pregnancy occurs) have those to things. Equality again men should have the same options.
Abortion is taking responsibility, it is no such thing as walking away. When men have the same body parts by all means have the smae choices. These fall under the legal umbrella of reproductive rights. Men and women have different reproductive because they have different reproductive organs that do 100 percent different things.

It is very sad that we have to have biology class 101 in this thread, I was under the assumption we all knew these facts to start with.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Since when is exercising the choice to abort not taking responsibility?


It is part of a females valid legal and responsible birth control choices.

I am sorry you feel the need to degrade the woman by acting like abortion is not a valid legal responsible choice, and even comparing it to not paying child support or shirking parental duties as a father is disgusting reprehensive and very telling.


Please show me where it says that abortion is birth control? It is not birth control, it does not prevent a pregnancy. No matter how you cut it is taking action after the fact.


edit on 17-9-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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Perhaps if a woman and man decide to have a child and then the woman decides to abort it against the man's wishes, she should have to pay him for pain and suffering.

Losing a child during a pregnancy is devastating for both parents-to-be; and it would be much more psychologically damaging to the man if the child died because the mother killed it in utero.

Anyone agree? Should Damages be awarded?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


You support a woman's right to choose, right?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Since when is exercising the choice to abort not taking responsibility?


It is part of a females valid legal and responsible birth control choices.

I am sorry you feel the need to degrade the woman by acting like abortion is not a valid legal responsible choice, and even comparing it to not paying child support or shirking parental duties as a father is disgusting reprehensive and very telling.



Yes but what I think you are failing to see, is that the male can choose an abortion as well... the only difference is that this form of abortion doesn't kill a child... it simply releases him from any legal conscription to pay for that which he doesn't want.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by mayertuck
Please show me where it says that abortion is birth control? It is not birth control, it does not prevent a pregnancy. No matter how you cut it is taking action after the fact.


I think the answer is in your question. The fetus is aborted not born, hence is it birth control.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by airspoon
In this day in age, a man doesn't even get the choice to be a dead beat, as the courts will force him to not only take care of the child but also the mother. This is nonsense. If she can easily choose whether she is ready, then so should he be able to do the same.

--airspoon
By engaging in sexual intercourse both male and female are agreeing to accept the outcome of that union. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

And by engaging in sex, the male knows he has a chance of rutting with a liar so if he chooses to go forth what is the excuse? He is saying as is she I am ready to take on what comes, even if that means this female decides to abort, or to keep the baby, or maybe having to mutually decide to give the kid up for adoption. Child support is a given if a man is engaging in an activity that ends with a baby.

For a female we have to be ready to abort or give birth. For a man he has to be ready to take care of a kid or deal with the loss of his kid through abortion.

Hey those are the same choices the female has.....



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by airspoon
Well then the women can get an abortion if the man also chooses not to have a child. Why should the woman get the choice if she isn't ready to have a child but the man doesn't?


Going out on a limb here, and I know this is a stretch, but it might have something to do with the fact it is her body and her life that will be affected the most; a father assumes no risks whatsoever to his life-and-limb during pregnancy and childbirth.

I think this is more about controlling women than "father rights".


Really? Because, today's court system makes it possible for a child to pose extreme risks to a father's freedom, wallet, and social status.

A father may not get stretch marks, but he most certainly would have little reason to have a nice body after the fact.

If that's where you want to go with the argument... because it is vanity and the court system, in a more perfect world, would not serve VANITY.



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