A question for Freemasons...

Originally posted by project_pisces
Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me

So if you know that you're crazy, deluded, paranoid, and slanderous, why are you doing it? Perhaps you just get off on the idea of hurting other people's feelings and causing strife?

Just a little tip - posting something stupid, then saying "Let me guess - you're going to call this stupid ," doesn't change the basic fact that what you posted is stupid.

Originally posted by project_pisces
Follow up:


Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me

Not necessarily, but think about this - when were those oaths and whatnot written? Have you done any research on Midieval Europe? Traitors and enemies of the state were given these and much worse punishments for their "crimes". Having your guts torn out, or being beheaded, or any of several other greusome ends were the prize of disloyalty to the King or Queen. It only makes sense that the men who devised and wrote the oaths used what was to them contemporary punishments (can you provide instances where these methods were used, I wonder?) for their place in history. Just because the Freemasons choose not to reword the oaths of the degrees for the sake of the progress of civilization reflects nothing but a desire to keep their tradition in tact. Do you honestly think that they still (if they ever actually did) do this to people in retribution for revealing secrets?!?!? In my mind it is nothing more than keeping the actual original words of the oaths and applying them in a figurative sense. Not everything is always exactly what it seems.

There is a chance that I am completely wrong, and the Masons have got me totally snowed, but as an intelligent human being able to make my own conclusions based on the information I take in, I really don't think this is the case. I don't speak for the Masons, this is just the way I see it through my eyes. Am I wrong? Maybe. Am I right? Maybe. Is it possible I could join and find out all this stuff about JA-BUL-ON and world conspiracy, and secret underground entrances to alien lairs (I had to throw that one in - it's one of my favorites so far ) is true? Of course it is possible, even if not probable. I know that if I ever did join and find out for myself that there was something wicked or sinister about Masonry I would definitely quit on the spot! All I know is what I know, the rest I leave up to my own good judgement. Try talking to the masons without that chip on your shoulder and ask honest questions and I am certain you will get honest answers.

Oh and Pisces, I am not an apologist for ANYONE, save myself if I am in the wrong. I am merely sharing an opinion that I have formed on my own, based on what I have read and conversations I have had in the hope to better understand Freemasonry, not to attack them and wait for a defensive response. Just try to keep an open mind, and no apologies will be necessary, from me or anyone else! Just my two cents.

[edit on 6/25/04 by The Axeman]

Tongues being torn out? Throats slit from ear to ear(beheadings)? Hearts plucked out, disimboweling? Drowning? I can see why the secrecy

Freemasonry was born in a barbaric world. The French Giloutine was still in use well into the 1900's. We still Hung people in the UK till about 1950. The US still has the death penalty. Being hung, drawn and quartered was a standard punishment in the 19th century.

Alber Pike would have been in Knee pants.

You can not keep tradition if you change everything to conform to modern society.

You would end up with , " If you divulge everything we have asked you to promise not to tell, we will send you a very severe solicitors letter" It does not have the same ring does it.

Originally posted by project_pisces
I find it interesting that there are alot of apologists for Freemasons.

There's a very simple reason there are a lot of apologists for Freemasonry: it's because people like you endlessly slander us, and we are a decent and honourable Fraternity. So, people and members want to defend us. Even St. Augustine was, I believe, an apologist.

By the way, since language and word meanings don't seem to be your forte, I'll note that an apologist is not one who apologises. It is one who explains and defends the truth about an organisation. You want fewer apologists? Then LIE LESS!

Originally posted by project_pisces
Follow up:


Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me

edit:: well this was said about 4 times as i wrote it.... too bad


LOOK OUT THERES A MASON IN THAT TREE!

Vir Fidelis

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Aero]

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Aero]

Actually, you should be made aware of the following fact: when obligations (not oaths) are taken, the penalties are considered to be a request from the candidate to God, that if he breaks his obligation the penalty should happen. A Freemason is absolutely and completely forbidden from carrying out any such penalty, and other Freemasons would be obligated to report him to the authorities if he did. The penalty is along the same lines that "cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye" is used. The words don't imply that any interlocutor will actually take action, they merely indicate the sincerety of the aspirant and the solemnity of the obligation.

Just like clock work


Apologists come scrambling....."please please...Freemasonry is a good and holy organization" Your a slanderous evil doer for saying such things

Originally posted by project_pisces
Just like clock work
Apologists come scrambling....."please please...Freemasonry is a good and holy organization" Your a slanderous evil doer for saying such things

Yes. And do you know why? Because it's true. Are you a person who crawls up into bird nests, breaks the eggs, then, when the mother bird returns and starts going nuts says "Oh, look, typical bird, going crazy. Oooh, those were my children, wah wah wah ?"

Once again, just to reiterate: stating out loud that what you say is stupid, and that people are likely to disagree with it, does not make what you say any less stupid.

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

By the way, since language and word meanings don't seem to be your forte, I'll note that an apologist is not one who apologises. It is one who explains and defends the truth about an organisation.

Oops, well I guess I should check the dictionary from time to time. OK so I guess I am becoming somewhat of an apologist. Oh well I guess that's better than being an instigator.

Originally posted by project_pisces
Just like clock work


Apologists come scrambling....."please please...Freemasonry is a good and holy organization" Your a slanderous evil doer for saying such things

*sobbing* You hurt my feelings!!!

Read your own signature for Pete's sake!

[edit on 6/25/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Echtelion
What is the purpose and meaning of big corporations using masonic symbols on their logos and publicities???

Think of AOL, Fidelity Investments, Alliance Atlantis Vivafilm, New Line Pictures and so on... their official logos are all closely reminiscent of the "All Seeing Eye". Here in Canada there`s also a few big companies that display that sign publicly... even the last company that I've worked for printed the symbol of the illumiating pyramid on each page of a training manual, and on the name tags that employees put on their desks!

What`s all this game about? Is it because the big bosses into these companies are masons and they use that to... tell their "brothers" in a symbolic way with whom they should do business? Please don't tell me it`s just somekind of tradition that has no meaning, or that they do this jsut for the fun of showing their colours, in a subtile way. There HAS to be a specific and serious purpose for that... but what is it?

If you dont like the answers don't ask the questions.

Originally posted by project_pisces

Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me

No. You're an idiot with a hate agenda. I wouldn't call you a "slanderous evil doer", merely "someone who is ignorant".

I wonder if you actually know anything about Schopenhauer? He was a rigid atheist but at least he tried to utilize logic. Maybe you should take a look at his Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason - you will see that you have been sadly lacking in that reason.


By the way. I don't think anyone would want to try to grab you - they might get their hands dirty.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by project_pisces

Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me

No. You're an idiot with a hate agenda. I wouldn't call you a "slanderous evil doer", merely "someone who is ignorant".

I wonder if you actually know anything about Schopenhauer? He was a rigid atheist but at least he tried to utilize logic. Maybe you should take a look at his Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason - you will see that you have been sadly lacking in that reason.


By the way. I don't think anyone would want to try to grab you - they might get their hands dirty.

Leveller remind me not to piss you off

I bet some good rubber gloves would alleviate the problem...

[edit on 6/25/04 by The Axeman]

Heh. I got a warning for that.

It seems that those who make a point through ignorant hatred are allowed to go unimpeded. Yet those of us who actually defend what we know are penalised.

"Deny ignorance"?

Emblems that are strictly Masonic are forbidden for use by businesses. However, if Masons do business with Masons, what's wrong with that anyway?

African-Americans ask other AA's to do business with black businesses, gays do business with gays, Hispanics with Hispanics and Muslims with Muslims. So if Masons prefer to do business with other Masons (and there are good reasons for that, such as knowing the business member is moral), what's the problem?

Researcher 01A
www.onealclan.com

ummm......maybe the big organizations simply like the symbols, and nothing else?!?!?!?!...............just because a person uses a symbol and to some people it is a masonic symbol, doesnt mean that the whole world is of like mind.
and about the oaths......i am mopt a mason, nor do i know an awful lot about them, just what i've read on these forums, but my opinion is that why would anyone join of they thought that those oaths were meant word for word????? maybe they are just used as symbolism and nothing more, just plain and simple symbolism. But i guess that is just crazy talk

Originally posted by zoe_jane
ummm......maybe the big organizations simply like the symbols, and nothing else?!?!?!?!...............just because a person uses a symbol and to some people it is a masonic symbol, doesnt mean that the whole world is of like mind.
and about the oaths......i am mopt a mason, nor do i know an awful lot about them, just what i've read on these forums, but my opinion is that why would anyone join of they thought that those oaths were meant word for word????? maybe they are just used as symbolism and nothing more, just plain and simple symbolism. But i guess that is just crazy talk

It seems as though giving people the benifit of the doubt is crazy... Hey look at me, I'm a "Slanderous evil doer"!!! Yay!

"It seems as though giving people the benifit of the doubt is crazy... Hey look at me, I'm a "Slanderous evil doer"!!! Yay! "


don't forget apologist, aparently that is a bad thing......

(havent figured out the quote thing yet...though i know its probabally soo easy)

As a Freemason we do not discuss politics when we meet in the Lodge/Chapter/Temple or any place where a Masonic meeting is taking place. As Freemasons we try and get on with one another and enjoy the fellowship of our Brethren. The problem with the truth is that often it is not exciting. If I said that in Freemasonry there were Higher degrees where Freemasons drank the blood of virgins and changed into reptiles and worshipped the Devil; there would be simple minded people who would believe these things. The Truth will set you free.

Brother Gerard

Originally posted by zoe_jane
"It seems as though giving people the benifit of the doubt is crazy... Hey look at me, I'm a "Slanderous evil doer"!!! Yay! "
(havent figured out the quote thing yet...though i know its probabally soo easy)

See the word QUOTE on the upper right of every reply....click on it and voila!!!

_________
For a brief time I wondered about freemasonry, but I'm happy to say I agree with what the freemasons say about themselves and have no reson to think they are in any way an evil group.
You may have a fear of what you do not know, pisces. Follow your avatar and look for the light.