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A question for Freemasons...

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posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 06:46 AM
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Once you're into something, you'll see it everywhere. I saw three symbols of the all seeing eye in the pyramid in my church, does it mean my church is a part of the Masons? The Masons were banned by the Church in the 18th century in Europe! Hitler killed many Masons. They have been ridiculed and thrown in the mud a lot of times. Of all the articles I've read, the Masons have been more oppressed than oppressing. I think many other religious extremists are far more dangerous than the Masons are.

Besides, I read in a book that the eye in the pyramid is also used in Christianity, and this is backed up by the symbols in my Church. What if I were to say that an Islamic super secret group used the fish as their symbol? Some people would probably believe that this was true, and because we live in a Christian society, where crosses, eyes in pyramids and fishes are symbols of, then these persons would probably see these things rather often.

Other people probably see other kinds of signs. Hell, people see ghosts for Christ sake!




posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 07:09 AM
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niavity brainwashing and fear etc abounds.



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 07:11 AM
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www.geocities.com... (click for webpage) something to amaze the 'profane' have a look.



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 07:11 AM
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stargods.org...

Might be of interest. Might not..



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by paradigm_blue
stargods.org...

Might be of interest. Might not..


So, wait... if I gather the intent of this web page, all eyes in advertising are All-Seeing Eyes, and all reptiles in advertising are Masonic Reptoids? Man, if that's your feeling, I certainly can't argue with you



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
niavity brainwashing and fear etc abounds.
It's ok man, we still love you, but I am happy to see you admit your problems. We'll work with you, we're here for your man.



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by paradigm_blue
stargods.org...

Might be of interest. Might not..

I'd say NOT. Some of those "eyes" really don't qualify. I guess anyone have put up a web page to say anything.

______________
Punisher~~I bet you could draw lines in a lot of cities. Esp. those that grew in some plan. I know Detroit was laid out in spokes.
I don't think it qualifies as sacred geometry or Masonic symbols, though.



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by paradigm_blue
stargods.org...

Might be of interest. Might not..



How about not...

I especially like the AltaVista one. It's an "A" and a "V" for Pete's sake! Heheh.

Most of them don't even look like eyes! And what's with the dinosaurs?

[edit on 6/24/04 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
www.geocities.com... (click for webpage) something to amaze the 'profane' have a look.


Hello all,

I checked out the first page (the second was still unavailable) and I will say the info presented is very interesting. I am intrigued, but hardly amazed... the thing that gets me though is why is it so hard for people to consider that the symbollism used in Masonry is symbolic of positive things? Most of the stuff from what I can tell is derived DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE! I don't know how many times I have seen in a thread (and I have only been a member 6 weeks or so) someone making crazy claims to know for a fact that Masonry is all about Luciferianism or some other occult evil background, or some other such thing. Their theories are constantly and very effectively shot down! And what's more, the men that are here on this site defending their Craft which is, IMHO an organization dedicated to the betterment of men, do so in such a manner as to command respect, even from the very people whose false pretenses they are laying to rest!

So what, there is a pentagram built into the streets of DC. Hmm... so, someone put it there to symbolize something - of that we can be fairly certain. OK, who are we to say what that person or people over two centuries ago meant to convey with that symbol? Did you meet them? Did they leave a note saying "Hey Punisher! Dude! This is what we meant by this symbol, and could you please tell everyone for us?" Who are you to say that the pentagram can only mean one thing to everyone?

OK, so, say a small group (historically speaking) of people have decided that, to them, the inverted pentagram represents a goat's ., that it's symbol of Satan, and Satan is cool, and they think it's cool to wear leather jackets and get tattoos and sacrifice small animals and other such things. Well, I guess that's wonderful for them.

Then, on the other hand, you have another totally different and unrelated group of people who decide that to them, the five points of the pentagram represent the points of Truth, Honor, Discipline, Charity, and Love, and the lines between the points represent how each of those virtues are related to one another i.e. they are all connected (just for the sake of argument). Would you alledge that this totally unrelated group is somehow in affiliation or shares beliefs with the aforementioned group, based solely on the fact that a similar symbol is used in both groups to represent two completely different ideas? That seems pretty thick-.ed to me.

Sorry for the rant, but as an outsider I see ALOT of people coming with this "Masonry is evil" mentality, when if they would just stop and think for a moment, and try to understand from the other point of view, they could see just how silly some of this Great Masonic Conspiracy crap sounds. I know, I used to think that way myself! I can very closely relate to this kind of situation personally right now, so this subject is very close to home for me. I am not a Mason as I have stated before, but all the Masons I have come into contact with - online or otherwise - are good men who I would be proud to be associated with, in any capacity.

I do look forward to reading the rest of the pages you posted Punisher, I did find it quite interesting but I beg you look into the posible alternate meanings of these symbols, you just might find that the designers had something benevolent in mind, in contrast to what most people are all too quick to probably errantly label as malevolent in nature.

What I'm basically trying to say is by all means do research and all that but keep an open mind to both sides of the coin. I will tell you this - on close inspection, I have found the Masonic side to be much more straight-forward and even-handed, while the anti side almost without fail will resort to insults and unsubstantiated accusations. If you pay attention to conversations between Masons and anti-Masons, it is easy to tell who are the better men.

OK I'm done, I will shut up now...


-A



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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yes very good site, who would of thought the dc street layout is the tree of life etc?, the elite do the same type stuff with there company logo's etc etc etc, why are you trying to label me as something axeman (condemnation)?.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by ThePunisher]



posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 10:49 PM
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I am intrigued, but hardly amazed... the thing that gets me though is why is it so hard for people to consider that the symbollism used in Masonry is symbolic of positive things?


Very very good question... it just reflects the general attitude of skeptics when they approach conpirasy theories, as they always forget to consider the idea that it's because things of major importance are hidden to the public that some people start getting paranoid and make up consipracy theories about evil aliens lecturing the President into his private quarters about the necessity of using Viagra on masses for birth control.

Should a pentagram -and pyramid- have good or evil significance is not ehat gets people upset... it's that they are HIDDEN!!! If urban development and architecture was made on Capitol Hill to reflect symbols that are meaningful to masons and occult groups, then why is it not taught in urbanism college or university classes in America? Why is it you never saw any documentary on that on the Discovery channel? That`s the very thing that people find "Evil". Because what does it tells us? That there`s a bunch of politicians in Washington that are not really the Christians that they claim to be... that city guides are all forgetting to tell tourists how masonic Capitol Hill is, and show them the "masonic" side of the district. That's the very thing that makes people go on conspiracy mode, and this is what the skeptic community seems to have missed (...with their bold positivist point-of-views).

And can I finally have an answer to my question?


df1

posted on Jun, 24 2004 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
And can I finally have an answer to my question?


It appears that the information you claim is hidden is not all that hidden, as the masonic orgins of the capitol are acknowledged on the website of the Washington DC Grand Lodge. And an inexpensive book on the subject is available from Amazon. I would also bet that if you contacted that citys Grand Lodge by usmail, email or phone asking for what you want and that a nice person would point out some of the high points and tell you where more information could be obtained.

I am not a mason, but it took me all of 30 seconds to locate the information below using google. Your expectation that every mason should be knowledgable of every facet of masonry and be able to spew forth what ever masonic trivia you desire on command is not masonic evil, it is an unreasonable expectation on your part.



George Washington Masonic National Memorial
101 Callahan Drive
Alexandria, Virginia
703-683-2007
Open for tours every day of the year except Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's Day
This is the tallest building in this part of the Washington DC area, rising 9 large stories above old town Alexandria. It is right next to the King Street Metro station. The Memorial contains lodge rooms, a gift shop, exhibits about George Washington and Freemasonry, a museum, a large Masonic library, and such items as George Washington's family Bible, locks of his hair, and items used during his funeral. There is also a Replica Lodge room that is furnished as a lodge room would have been during Washington's lifetime, with additional exhibits including the trowel he used when laying the cornerstone of the U.S. Capitol building, and the clock that was in his bedroom when he died. Meetings of Lodges and other Masonic groups are held in the Memorial regularly.

House of the Temple (Scottish Rite Headquarters)
1733 - 16th Street NW
Washington DC
202-232-3579
Open for tours on Weekdays
The House of the Temple is an office building for the Sovereign Grand Commander and other officers and staff of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction of the United Stated (Mother Council of the World). It also has many museum rooms and a large Masonic library. Biennial meetings of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, are usually held in the House of the Temple.


United States Capitol Building
There are many Masonic references in the Capitol, but some are not too clear or easily found, such as square and compasses in some paintings. Some architectural historians, though, have written extensively about the entire Capitol being a Masonic structure, with Masonic symbolism evident in many places and ways.

Grand Lodge of D.C.
5428 MacArthur Blvd NW
Washington DC 20016-2524
202-686-1811
Museum and Library open by appointment
This building is primarily an office for the Grand Master, Grand Secretary, and staff of the Grand Lodge. It does not have any lodge rooms, but some informal committee meetings are held here.

email address: grandlodge@dcgrandlodge.org

www.dcgrandlodge.org...




Amazon: The Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital : The Masons and the Building of Washington, D.C.
www.amazon.com...

Book Review: freemasonry.bcy.ca...

As for christian politicians that arent christian, I have no idea what that has to do with the masons. It is my understanding that to be mason you must only believe in God and that no particular denomination is required.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by df1]

[edit on 24-6-2004 by df1]

[edit on 24-6-2004 by df1]



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
www.geocities.com... (click for webpage) something to amaze the 'profane' have a look.


Well for a philosopher that is not supposedly Anti Mason, he does a pretty good impersonation of one.

The site is like one of those conversations that starts" I know you will not get upset when I tell you".

Lets take one or two of the symbols.

The all seeing eye. This has been used as a symbol of the omnificence of God by many hundreds of civilizations from the Egyptians to the Aztecs. It has been around for thousands of years before Masonry became in any form organised.


The pentagram was in similar vien the symbol of Solomon, and then the symbol of Jeruselem. Derived from the star of David.

www.mfa.gov.il...



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
yes very good site, who would of thought the dc street layout is the tree of life etc?, the elite do the same type stuff with there company logo's etc etc etc, why are you trying to label me as something axeman (condemnation)?.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by ThePunisher]


Not trying to label anyone, P... just giving my honest opinion. My signature is not directed at anyone, I just think it's a great quote.



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 08:38 AM
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i know it isnt, i was talking about what you wrote.



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
i know it isnt, i was talking about what you wrote.


I wasn't trying to label you as anything, and after reading my post again I realize I did kind of single you out, and for that I apologize - I did not intend to offend you. It's just that I feel like those of us giving Masons the benifit of the doubt are few and far between, you know? Hell, I only started researching them a couple of months ago, but what I have found (aside from the conspiracy sites like freemasonwatch) leads me to believe these men and what they say about their fraternity. Maybe I am biased because of family involvement by people I have great respect for, I don't know, but it seems so much more believable to me that these are good men doing good things. Most people are quick to judge them as a group with nefarious intentions, not out of knowledge or experience, but out of sheer ignorance to what is going on! I don't know any more than any other profane what goes on in lodge, or ad initiation, or any of that. I would sooner join and find out myself than to spew wild speculation about something I know nothing or at best very little about.

As I said, I meant no offense I was just using you as an example. Are we cool then?


[edit on 6/25/04 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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I find it interesting that there are alot of apologists for Freemasons.

Question:
The Thirty-three Degrees of Freemasonry
33º Grand Inspector General
32º Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret
31º Grand Inspector Inquisitor Commander
30º Grand Elected Knight Kadosh, Knight of the Black and White Eagle
29º Knight of St Andrew
28º Knight of the Sun
27º Commander of the Temple
26º Prince of Mercy
25º Knight of the Brazen Serpent
24º Prince of the Tabernacle
23º Chief of the Tabernacle
22º Prince of Libanus
21º Patriarch Noachite
20º Venerable Grand Master
19º Grand Pontiff
18º Knight of the Pelican and Eagle and Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom
17º Knight of the East and West
16º Prince of Jerusalem
15º Knight of the Sword, or of the East
14º Scottish Knight of Perfection
13º Royal Arch (of Enoch)
12º Grand Master Architect
11º Sublime Elect
10º Elect of Fifteen
9º Elect of Nine
8º Intendant of the Building
7º Provost and Judge
6º Intimate Secretary
5º Perfect Master
4º Secret Master
--------------------------
3º Master Mason
2º Fellow Craft
1º Entered Apprentice



Secret? Brazen Serpent? Knight? Prince?


In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe [The Freemason's god] is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON - not a general umbrella term but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:


JAH
Jahweh, The God of the Hebrews.
BUL
Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON
Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.
Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Isrealites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's god, the sixteenth century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three .s - those of a man, a toad, and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.



The Museum of the Grand Lodge of the State of Israel
Tel Aviv, Israel
Model of the project "Freemasons International Center in Jerusalem"
Architect Arie Lynn
www.geocities.com...


Tongues being torn out? Throats slit from ear to ear(be.ings)? Hearts plucked out, disimboweling? Drowning? I can see why the secrecy



Masonic oaths reveal their barbaric nature.

Entered Apprentice Degree

"…binding myself under no les penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by its roots and buried in the sands of the sea, at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I in the least, knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn Obligation of an Entered Apprentice. So help me God and make me steadfast to keep and perform the same" (State of Nevada Book of Rituals pg.55)

The Fellowcraft Degree

"…binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my breast torn open, my heart plucked out from thence and given to the beasts of the field and the birds of the air as prey....."

The Master Mason Degree

"...no less penalty than that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes. and this scattered by the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance may be had among men or Masons of so vile a wretch as I should be, should I...violate...my Master Mason's obligation...."

Royal Arch Oath

"...binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my skull smote off and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the noonday sun, should I violate this my solemn obligation..."

Masonic Shriners Oath



The oath of the Shrine concludes as follows: "...in willful violation whereof I may incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed and I will be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea, until the flaming sun shall strike me with livid plague, and may Allah the God of Arab, Muslim and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers support me to the entire fulfillment of the same, Amen, Amen, Amen."

Allah? Muslim? Arab? Mohamed? Plucking eyes out etc?




can anyone say al CIAeda? (CIA,Mossad,Arab Intelligence agencies,MI6



but but,,,its all in good fun and besides,,,its all symbolism
Freemasons do such good work for the community and Allah...lmao



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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Follow up:


Let me guess....I dont know what I speak of and Im just a crazy whacked out conspiracy theorist that thinks there is a freemason under every rock ready to grab me



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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JAH
Jahweh, The God of the Hebrews.
BUL
Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'.
ON
Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld.
Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Isrealites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's god, the sixteenth century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three .s - those of a man, a toad, and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible.


Youve been to Freemasonry Watch haven't you.

Let me put forward another more reasonable undiluted conclusion. A end debate post from another forum.

There may be some ears in here that are not ready to accept this, but an investigation of Mr. Pyle's claims concerning the name "Jahbulon" are absolutely on target. The "Jah" is a no-brainer, and has already been conceded by practically everyone here. The others were a bit more of a problem, and truthfully, I thought at first you were far off the mark. The name of "On" was the one I took on first, because I had never heard a suggestion of a Greek God named On. Nowhere in anything I have or in anything I could find online suggested any different, so I was ready to disagree totally. Then I re-read the post and saw I had been mistaken and you were not even hinting at a "Greek God" at all, but a Greek word for the God of the Bible. Next I tried a Septuagint concordance, and there was not even a word "on" included. A lexicon, and a New Testament Greek concordance still turned up nothing. I was literally about to give up and refute your claim, when I thought about the Septuagint itself and figured it wouldn't hurt to look. When I did so, checking the Exodus 3:14 reference, there it was, right before me, only instead of the Greek letter omicron (“short” o), it was the omega (“long” o). Can’t see it in the English, but it’ll sure throw you for a loop in Greek. Then I had the idea this wasn’t really a name for God at all, but simply a form of the Hebrew “I AM” verb, and began to research it from that angle. I ran into a snag when checking out the reference I found from Hosea 12:4, where I found in the side-by-side English translation of the Septuagint, a mention of the “house of On.” I had a problem because it simply was not there in my other English translation (NKJV). At least it wasn’t there until I recognized that “house of On” was translated as “Bethel” in my English version. Took me longer than it should have, but finally realized that the translation of “Bethel” literally means “house of God,” and so “house of On” was an equivalent. A tedious process of discovery, but found it eventually.
The “bul” was much harder, but only because I made it so by starting at the harder sources first. I first started an internet search on the hunch that “bel” and “ba’al” may not be one and the same. All I came across were places where they are spoken of interchangeably, and a non-canonical book about Daniel and Bel. Since I knew it was more or less an equivalent of “ba’al,” I started the search at “ba’al.” This was a bit harder, because I had to re-familiarize with the Hebrew lettering and reverse reading. Also, even though I have a Hebrew-English Bible, it is not one of your better versions, the Hebrew lettering is difficult to determine in places. I was not finding “ba’al” in the passage in Isaiah 54:5, nor was I finding it in a Hebrew concordance. Something finally told me to look in the Strong’s concordance and get an idea what I was l looking for. When I did, there it was plain as could be, and I looked up the corresponding number. I found it, and it’s there, plain as you want it to be, “ba’al” as the Hebrew word for “husband.” The word can also mean “master,” so that the verse translated comes to, “For the Lord your Maker is your Master.” (For those interested, it is in KJV concordance as #1167. “Ba’al” with a capital is under #1168 as the Canaanite deity. I assumed the root word may be somewhat different, but the two in the Hebrew are exactly the same.)
My conclusion is, Mr. Pyle, you have made an excellent case for a strictly biblical origin for this word that has been suggested as a combination of gods that include a pagan fertility god adopted from the area around them, and an Egyptian sun god. The conclusions are simple:

(1) “Jah” = a shortened form of “Yahweh” or “Jehovah.”
(2) “Bul” = another form of “ba’al,” translated as “husband” throughout most of the Old Testament, but also translated as “master” in Exodus 22:8, and Judges 19:22-23.
(3) “On” = the same name God gave Moses when questioned, “whom shall I say has sent me?” The fact that this is a name for God is clear from the passage in Hosea 12:4, translating “house of On” from the Septuagint Greek version, which corresponds to the Hebrew “Bethel,” which means “House of God.”



posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by project_pisces
In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe [The Freemason's god] is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON - not a general umbrella term but a precise designation that describes a specific supernatural being - a compound deity composed of three separate personalities fused in one. Each syllable of the 'ineffable name' represents one personality of this Trinity:


Nope. This is untrue. Besides, if the expression (not a name) Jah Bul On were ineffable, you wouldn't be able to say it. Perhaps you should i) grow up, ii) learn what words mean, iii) stop obsessing about anti-Masonic lies, and iv) find something productive to do with your time.




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