Pope warns of "atheist extremism" on visit to Britain

Hello,

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Ugh, it's still not an atheist state for christ sakes, any form of worship to a person or idol or statue is pretty much as anti-atheist as possible.

Bollocks.

Hero worship of a person is NOT theism at all !

Theism is about GOD, not persons.


G

hello,

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
LOL, even secular Anthropologists say we all came from a single woman.
Try again.

So what?

If you go back far enough, of COURSE we all came from a single woman.
Many 10s of 1000s of years ago.

NOTHING to do with Eve, which is what you falsely implied.


G

Gday,

Originally posted by OurManInGlasgow
Secondly, athiesm is an ideology...it is principle, philosophy or belief system that people (namely, athiests) believe in. So that in that sense you could say it is the same as Christianity, etc.

No it isn't.
Atheism is a LACK of belief.

But you can't even spell the word right, let alone grasp what it means.


G

hello,

Originally posted by OurManInGlasgow
Finally can I ask you to stop saying that people don't kill, fight or die for athiesm, as it is simply and completely wrong. For example, the Khmer Rouge dictatorship which ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979, which sought sought to establish a classless, atheistic society moving forward "in great leaping bounds" towards an avowed goal of pure communism:

But they did NOT kill for athiesm [sic].
And your post does not provide any evidence that they did.

They all had black hair - so the Khmer Rouge killed in the name of black hair.
That's the argument you are using - it's nonsense.


G

reply to post by Greenfly13


Um. No. If it was a passive lack of belief instead of a active disbelief there would be no need for a title. After all, I lack belief in *put something I haven't heard of here* do I go around declaring myself a A*put something I haven't heard of here*? Of course not. But your argument does sound good to those that wish to semantically fluff up atheism into a special and obviously bigger catagory.

reply to post by KIZZZY


I cut and pasted the definition found in Merriam Webster? Also, you will note the archaic designation. Here allow me to make it obvious.

athe·ism noun ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm
Definition of ATHEISM
1archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Origin of ATHEISM
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
First Known Use: 1546

Merriam Webster
And Archaic means:

ar·cha·ic adj är-ˈkā-ik
Definition of ARCHAIC
1: having the characteristics of the language of the past and surviving chiefly in specialized uses
2: of, relating to, or characteristic of an earlier or more primitive time : antiquated
3capitalized : of or belonging to the early or formative phases of a culture or a period of artistic development; especially : of or belonging to the period leading up to the classical period of Greek culture
4: surviving from an earlier period; specifically : typical of a previously dominant evolutionary stage
5capitalized : of or relating to the period from about 8000 b.c. to 1000 b.c. and the North American cultures of that time
— ar·cha·i·cal·ly-i-k(ə-)lē adverb

Merriam Webster
Which means it was once used to denote wickedness.

But thank you for that rather painfully obvious attempt at sidetracking the debate. And finding a rather unorthodoxed way of taking offense at imagined insult.

Hi Glasgow dude,

I will try to help you out of your misery, as no-one else has tried.

There exists a special form of 'logic' amongst fundamentalists, by which they 'prove' things. It goes like this:

Two things can share certain similarities by EXCLUSION (humans don't fly, toasters don't fly)

Two things can share certain similarities by INCLUSION (humans react to gravity, toasters react to gravity)

This does not made them even slightly identical. But some people do sometimes use this kind of argument to associate an opponent with something unpleasant. As in my former post:

In some traditions (e.g. christianity) a bad guy (e.g. the devil) has been a redhead.
In some traditions (e.g. christianity) a bad guy (e.g. the devil) belongs to a competing ideology.

In- and exclusively redheads share similarities with the devil.

In 'christian' logic on redheads some centuries ago, that meant: FRY THEM.

That you guys still are using this kind of logic is worrying, because practically anyone you don't like can be next on your list of 'proved' candidates for your inquisitional eagerness.

Sorry? ::: The NEW christians? Tell that to a homosexual...

....maybe not a personal victim of yours, Glasgow, but could be a victim of your lack of real logic.

If you want, I can 'prove' to you, that ALL christians are bloodthirsty murderers.

I've spent at least an last hour going over all the posts and all i can say is WOW,
there are some crazy people on this website but many of the arguments are sound and have valid points...
as a christian from a christian society i am expected to conform to there christian beliefs but for me it is just not feasable to believe what they are preaching, in light of all the allegations against the church, and there are many many allegations i could go into but wont, i understand and agree with alot of the points raised here and disagree with a few too.
Kill the pope???? really? are you saying that because you have found some other evidence that he has actually commited a crime or are you just saying that because you and the world knows he was in the Hitler youth when he was young(and by the way he was never involved in the war and deserted when he was 20 to go back and live with his family),
do you think that solve anything? do you think that would be justice to the church for all the crimes commited by there previous pope's, priests and followers???
Dont get me wrong, i neither want or care for this papal visit and could care less what its about but there are hundreds of thousands lining the streets all the same to pay homage not to the man himself but to the message that he brings, its simple really, of course the church know's christianity is on the decline, go back through time and history will tell you anytime it has, there has been some sort of decline in belief of any of the religions there has been a contingent, either army or dignitary in more modern times to try and instill some faith that there leaders have not forgotten about there faithfull members.
I particularly liked the comment about the catholics and protestant religions a few pages back (you should come to Belfast and see exactly what its like to live in a society that has both religions mixed together 'fightin the bit out' as we say, i dare you to walk down the shankill road with a celtic top on or even the falls road with a rangers top then you'll know you arse from your elbow) i've experienced the atrocities the 2 religions have metted out to each other over the span of my life and can only tell you the storries of my parentage of times it was worse before that.
Everyone knows the church has blood sweat and tears on there hands and make Hitler look like a pre school child spittin his dummy out of the pram cos he wants another rusk to chew on cos his teeth are sore, every week it seems there's another allegation in the alice in wonderland, how deep does the rabbit hole go religion that is catholicism, i'm all for bringin the the purportrators of there heinous crimes to justice, lock them up and throw away the key, even if there 90 years of age, they dont deserve anythin less than what the did to there victims, i dont agree with his cover ups of these purpotrators but to expect him to shoulder the blame for all the churces misgivings over the centuries is absolute ludacriss.

More than a few of you need to get off the atheist soap box you've pearched yourself on and realise while you dont agree with this visit and everythin it costs and goes with it, there's hundreds of thousands out there who are delighted the man who represents the almighty one is here for 4 days.


And as for Bogomil
'If you want, I can 'prove' to you, that ALL christians are bloodthirsty murderers.'

I would love nothin more than for you to explain this comment in full ellaborate detail please

Re Lucificus

I really enjoyed your post.

As to my "ALL christians are bloodthirsty murderers" it was meant as a parody of the twisted logic used by all kinds of fundamentalists (not only christians). And please notice the apostrophes around 'prove'.

But WITH this pseudo-logic I can really 'prove' it.

I've known many decent christians, also some not so lukewarm, whom I have no objections to. A few fundamentalists I've even come to like and respect.

It's the sociopath types, who give all ideologies a bad name, and your open attitude is what's needed to take away stereotyped generalizations. If you can keep the trigger-happy christians isolated (e.g. mental hospitals or special monasteries) the rest of you are not more weird than the rest of us.

I still think your religion is a scam (just an academic point in this context) But then what isn't scam these days. Paulus was just out early.

PS The theoretical physicist Heisenberg was also in hitler-jugend in his youth. It must have been quite a surprise for him, when he developed the 'uncertainty principle' with it's enormous 'anarchistic' implications.

Citation Spike Jones:

"People are funnier than anybody".

Originally posted by Greenfly13
If you go back far enough, of COURSE we all came from a single woman.

How do you know that? Have you got evidence?

NOTHING to do with Eve, which is what you falsely implied.

And how do you know that?

No it isn't.
Atheism is a LACK of belief.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Athiesm is what you believe. You don't have any evidence that God or a higher force doesn't exist, but you choose to believe that anyway. In my opinion the fact that so many athiests seem to be hate filled and furious on the subject if anything makes them and their belief seem a bit suspect.

But you can't even spell the word right, let alone grasp what it means.

Seriously, if you get a kick out of hanging around discussion boards waiting to criticize any spelling errors you see then...perhaps you should do something like try and get out the house more?

Originally posted by bogomil
Hi Glasgow dude,

I will try to help you out of your misery, as no-one else has tried.

Lol! You fell into my trap...

I'm actually a bit surprised that people here seem to be unaware of it but athiesm is intrinsic to Communism:

Communism doesn't end with economic and political reform. By definition, it further demands the abolition of both Religion and the Absolute Morality founded upon Religion. The irony is that Communism supposedly attempts to enhance civility within society, but removes all notions of Absolute Morality, the very cornerstone of civility. Furthermore, after Communism is instituted by the people, the system becomes Totalitarian, resulting in greater oppression of the people it was designed to "serve." This fact is well documented throughout the history of Communist nations.

www.allaboutphilosophy.org...

Re Glasgow

You wrote:

"Lol! You fell into my trap... "

You mean you baited me and led me to my own ruin? Feel free any time; if I can answer a question, I'll give it a try.

You also wrote (in another post):


"You don't have any evidence that God or a higher force doesn't exist, but you choose to believe that anyway."

It's one thing, that you are so clever, that you can make traps. It's another that you don't read the answers and maybe learn a little. In the situation implied in the above citation, it stands to reason, that anyone postulating something, which is not immediately observable (e.g. a 'god' or a complex scientific theory) bears the burden of proof. No-one can ofcourse force you to follow this rule, but you'll appear silly, when your method is turned against you.

I have on several occasions mentioned this small mouse called Henry, who is omniscient. He tells me EVERYTHING, ...while he's hoovering. And he says, you're absolutely wrong.

Will you please disprove Henry.

@ Watcher-In-The-Shadows

I have taken no offense through "gleaning" over the comments so it must be your imagination of me imagining that I have imagined a slight!

Because Christians denied the popular gods of the day, they were often accused of atheism by the pagans. One does have to wonder what the Pope is doing wearing the head-piece (mitre) worn by the priests of Dagon, the fish-god (Nimrod) of the Philistines and Babylonians and also a plethora of many other pagan symbols. The Roman Catholic Church even admits the Monstrance to be a sunburst!

I could go on and on but that is another topic entirely!

I hate to break it to ya, but today many Atheists serve on the faculties of the most prestigious universities, and more often than not the theist seems to be the obscurantist.

@OurManInGlasgow

I did not know that Atheism is a political party. News to me! An Atheist simply means a person who does not believe in a deity. There is no specific political inclinations to my knowledge.

I can see the "chutzpah" (audacity) that the Pope displayed towards the UK in stating that: "The UK was in the grip of "a new and aggressive atheism" would absolutely be vexing to say the least. I think it behooves us all not to ready our pea-shooters and knock that pagan head-dress (mitre) right off his head and feed his little red shoes to the dog! Yes?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Hhhhmmm Your philosophy seems to be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Interesting... I knew a man who believed that exact same thing. He was against the church, or synagogue at the time, and he lived his life and died for this belief.

Too bad, another church usurped his teachings and shrouded them in the same veil of pontification as the one he rebelled against. Perhaps if they had not done that, more would understand the meaning of his message.

You can find that sentiment in Confucianism, Buddhism , Hinduism, Greek philosophy etc etc .....

Reciprocity is as old as our species .

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

The third, being the militant atheist, has the anarchist sign on his shirt. Being the ultimate hypocrite, because he is for anarchy and yet is the only one sitting down drinking coffee -- probably talking about how the muslims and christians need to chill out and stop killing people because it's wrong. Wait a minute... that's not anarchy! That's someone saying that someone else should do something the way they perceive to be right! That's totally democracy, dude.

That is not an anarchist symbol, it is an atheist one. They do look a bit similar..

www.religioustolerance.org...

You are right. Interesting that the two do look so similar actually.

I didn't realize atheists needed a symbol? Isn't that incredibly ironic? Atheists competing over which idol is more proper for their movement?

I thought atheists had better things to do.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

An idol is a human-made object that is worshipped in some way

.

Cult image, a religion-neutral term for a human-made object that is venerated for the deity, spirit or daemon that it embodies or represents.

We do not have idols but I am selling some gold and silver deities. Could I interest
you in purchasing a few? We are having a two fer the price of one sale!

reply to post by KIZZZY


Oh really. Do I need remind you of your response? Not to mention the sheer emotionality needed to jump to the conclusion that I was in fact calling atheists wicked. I am still not exactly sure why you quoted the meaning of the word atheist to me. Care to explain? And all this because I did not edit out the archaic meaning for the word referenced in my properly contained in [-ex-] [/-ex-] tags with source none the less.

I hate to break it to ya, but today many Atheists serve on the faculties of the most prestigious universities, and more often than not the theist seems to be the obscurantist.

And exactly why do you think I care? I don't care what someone believes to be honest or even how many atheists are anywhere. So long as someone does not make their beliefs my buisness it's just that, none of my buisness. But, it behooves you to provide proof when making a claim. Have any?

The Pope is a complete ass. He is a known child molester and is pushing a dated religion that has no bearing on life in modern society.

I do hope the downfall of the main religions is upon us. We are heading into great, great times. Buy your popcorn and sit back and watch as religion slowly implodes.

Lucifer anyone?

This is so dumb, run everyone hide the Atheist are coming.

He's not even saying anything about the Satanist, what's he hiding.

Oh, did he say anything about the Satanist?