Pentagon bodies from Flight 77

Alfie: You are correct and it does not seem my question has been answered yet. Some have went into other aspects or problems with the OS. I understand there are problems with the OS as many have posted and don't wish to get into the other problems that have been argued multiple times, on multiple threads here at ATS. It's a tough question to answer and truth is, we'll probably never know, but one that made me think. I've probably changed between 1000-1500 people's mind myself over the last few years from OS believers to the truther side(or at least skeptics of the OS). This is the one question I have not been able to answer convincingly. I can explain the WTC, Shanksville, and the rest of it, but not the bodies, at least not to my satisfaction. On a side, since there are a lot of comments/discussion that do not address the question I posed in the OP, I 'd add this. Since all aircraft parts have an ID number stamped on them, why haven't these parts been shown to come from the aircraft in question and why no investigation by NTSB of other agency of the site?

reply to post by exponent

you are correct, but as I have seen in other military applications, they usually get the good stuff first. But even if all they had were multiplexers and vcr's, there would still be more video. From the old reports I heard, the video recovered form surrounding areas were in fact tapes. The pentagon is supposed to be one of the most secure buildings in the united states. as I said, wal mart has more than two cameras covering the front of their building.

But since we the people aren't privy to the amount of footage that exists, or how many camera angles were available, people like me will just be pissing in the wind when asking for more video. It just seems that not showing it is making them look guilty of something.

reply to post by freedom12

Since all aircraft parts have an ID number stamped on them....

Unfortunately, a common (and incorrect) assertion. Again, many "9/11 conspiracy" sites throw out these things, without any basis in fact or understanding.

....and why no investigation by NTSB of other agency of the site?

Well, NTSB only investigates to determine the cause of a crash, to determine what to recommend to(hopefully) prevent anything similar in future. The cause is already known, here --- and "security" is not within the NTSB's jurisdiction. Except, inasmuch as they can recommend security tactics in regards to airplane designs and procedures, etc. But, I think the DHS has more power in that realm.

reply to post by spikey
did anyone see the documentaries on this past 911???I watched the one called 911dc it shows a man picking up a piece of the plane
(it was a good distance from the main impact site)and he says"this is too light to be a commercial plane and hands it over to another man and he turns it over and says there's an emblem on it ,"It's a Marine Corps emblem"I was shocked and kept rewinding it to make sure I heard him correctly,and I was.My husband is a active duty Marine and we took a trip to the Pentagon a few years back and alot of people told us that the section that was hit was almost completely empty at the time(at that time I still believed the os)but sure don't anymore.they had people on the site (they were still completing the memorial)that was telling the official story)personally I think now they were planted there.So if a plane did crash I believe it was a military plane.

Since all aircraft parts have an ID number stamped on them....



"Unfortunately, a common (and incorrect) assertion. Again, many "9/11 conspiracy" sites throw out these things, without any basis in fact or understanding "............... Actually they do weed! I was a CNC machinist that made parts for various types of aircraft and after machining these parts, the last thing I did before sending them to the packaging department for shipping , was to stamp these parts. There was some parts which I didn't do this for, but only because the buyer required a different type of stamping on it that was done in the shipping department.

reply to post by TWILITE22


Are you talking about the "docudrama" from Showtime called "DC 911"????

www.zimbio.com...

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by bl2k10
can a truther please show a list of the confirmed videos that show a plane hitting the pentagon and those cameras exact locations? And also who transferred and how were the bodies transferred if they were supposedly dumped? How were those passengers killed? Where were they killed? Alot of talking and no proof.

Why would you expect Truthers to have videos of a plane hitting the Pentagon?
Many of us Truthers believe no Boeing hit the Pentagon because no video or photo has ever been released that shows a Boeing hitting the Pentagon.

The Gov't much later released a few very odd frames from a security video purporting to show the plane, but there is no recognisable plane in them.

I never asked them to provide actual videos but a list showing where these cameras were and confirmation that there were so many other videos capturing the Pentagon crash like truthers suggest

I did a blogpost on [9/11 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77 ; irrationaltheorist.blogspot.com...] refuting a truther, but then I just got pissed off by the deception and the accusations that the person was making about our government. The problem with the truthers is that they have sadistic minds, they think that our government would actually kill thousands of innocent civilians and then would cover it up (no thanks to George Soros). If that were the case then the myriad of people with a guilty consciousness would have come forward and confessed to, well, killing thousands. Why, when Osama Bin Laden was burning American flags and bragging about his horrific accomplishments the very next day?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Unfortunately, a common (and incorrect) assertion. Again, many "9/11 conspiracy" sites throw out these things, without any basis in fact or understanding.

Actually, that is incorrect, at least in part. Most if not all aircraft parts have a manufacturer stamp on them with serial number and part number. As an avionics technician in the US Air Force, I was responsible for the R&R or removal and replacement of parts, and they all had a serial number. We had to list these on the chain of custody paperwork. I never asked, but I assumed it was tracked so if a particular part failed, it could be traced back to the guy who made it. I don't have anything other than my word to offer as proof.

reply to post by weedwhacker
No it was on last sunday it was a documentary,not a movie,it was an hour long on nat geoI believe it was called 911-dc the pentagon.

reply to post by freedom12


There are dozens and dozens of different ways to identify the various parts on a commercial airliner...the hundreds of thousands of parts. It's not enough to have been a machinist and look at this from that narrow viewpoint, to expect to comprehend the full picture.

I wish we had some ATS members who are mechanics...um, excuse me, maintenance technicians. Oh, actually we do! But, he's not been along in some months....and is more avionics. Guess real life got in the way, hopefully only temporarily.

BTW...consider this, if you will:

Say you have a part, or component....some widget that has a P/N....maybe even a S/N too on it....but it's broken apart into several pieces in the crash? Does every piece also carry a "number"?? No.

Most of the metal that makes up the airframe (the "structure" isn't 'stamped' with numbers.

Here, check this out. An image of a (B-737-800) overhead panel. It's not a photo, per se, but I have it handy in my Pictures folder. Look how many little bits there are, and behind and out of sight too (int he real thing):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd9230ec34bf.jpg[/atsimg]

This is an actual photo, this case a B-727 center pedestal area. Imagine you had one of those, and dissassembled it, into all its separate bits, and strew it about somewhere. (Still, there wouldn't be any impact damage, in that instance...):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/294c4bca0321.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by bair1975
reply to post by dereks

 

Well Dereks..... In your opinion there are not surface to air missiles nor should there be as a last line of defense on the Petagon's grounds? Also in your opinin there are not planes that are not solely on alert to protect the skies over and around the Pentagon? WOW..... what were you doing on sept 11? Let me guess.... Head of Pentagon security? I will admit you clarified that planes regularly fly within a mile of the Pentagon. However I believe My statement stated that there were 10 guys under the Pentagon monitoring every bird or kite within in a mile of the Pentagon? I can assure there are...I can also assure you that there are surface to air missiles protecting the Pentagon along with designated fighter jets to protect it's airspace, as there is for every American military/Govt high intrest target! Oh and your false statement about the location of surface to air missiles, gee why do all of our carriers,destroyers and military installations around the world see a reason to install them?

I wonder how many of the "truthers" have ever been to DC? I've been there and I watched from behind the Lincoln Memorial airliners flying down the Potomac less than a 1/4 mile from the Pentagon. Those planes fly pretty low and close to the Pentagon on final approach to Regan Airport.

There were 14 aircraft on "alert" in the entire US. This was not USA 1956 where we had hundreds of aircraft fighters and bombers on 24/7 5 minute alerts with engines running on the tarmac (sorry weedwhacker I know you hate that term in this case) ready to intercept hundreds of Soviet bombers coming over the Northern borders and from across the Atlantic and Pacific. This was 2001. yeah we got SAMs near the Pentagon, placed AFTER 9/11. The Humvee Avenger systems were deployed around the DC area. Yeah THAT is when we had SAMs placed. Oh and one other time too, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think you have been watching way too many James Bond movies or Hollywood, or playing too many video games and reading thriller action novels. The Pentagon was a giant office building. Not a nuclear missile site, not an airfield, not an army base, or submarine base, or nuclear storage facility, or Area 51. But say if they did try to shoot down the airliner as its over the DC area? You do know that once shot down, that planes gotta go somewhere. I take it it would have been better seeing the flaming debris impact a residential neighborhood, or plop down on to the traffic chocked freeways, or the Navy Complex. Its not as if the plane vaporizes in midair.

reply to post by TWILITE22


You might mean THIS one? Haven't seen it yet, will after lunch.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/294c4bca0321.jpg[/atsimg]

Understand that weed, but I'm talking about bigger parts such as engines, landing gear,etc. Even the smaller parts the make up bigger components have this identification as th AF poster above mentioned and my little brother works on planes in the Air Force confirmed. Even the little parts have ID numbers. But the main reason I brought this up is, to the best of my knowledge, all the various parts that have been pictured, not one of them has been specifically identified as having come from Flight 77. There has even been side by side photo comparisions of parts found with parts from a different aircraft. The problem is, lack of an investigation/disclosure of said parts being confirmed from this flight, which should have been relatively easy to do. In the past, the government has put whole plans back together, part by broken part to determine what had happened. This wasn't done in this case and it was the most significant crash in the history of our country.

It is clear to me that this govt no longer considers the American people intelligent, or relevant. They just don't care to give us any info, just enough to stop the prob lems. Hey, the 'black budget' is 60% of the ENTIRE budget. Totally unaccountable. NOONE ever votes on it, no one ever checks to see if it is honest or not. Trusting or just plain stupid? We get all upset about porker projects, like the bridge to nowhere, but that is negligible next to the black budgets potential for abuse. Don't just fire the bums, indict. Or maybe just a good ol' fashion lynching. BOTH parties, and ALL govt 'employees'. mad:

Originally posted by freedom12
Thanks for the replies so far. I'm well aware of all the problems with the OS. I've seen the CIT video, aware that there are numerous problems with the OS(flightpath, manuvers by the plane, lack of numbered plane parts,size of hole in the wall, lack of holes in the Pentagon from huge titanium engines, etc, etc, etc). Still no answer to all those people involved in the body recovery though. Anxiously awaiting better answers.

Sorry that is a question not worth answering! WHY, because when searching for answers one does not try to debunk false truth (People may very well have taken bodies out of the Pentagon, and they may very well have been the ticketed passengers), one looks for the questions that need to be answered!

Why was the damage to the pentagon restricted to a single hole?
Why is there no video footage from the hundreds of cameras?
Why did the government release footage from a car park entry camera that did not show the plane?
Why did the "Plane" go past the White house and head for the recently strengthen section of the Pentagon?
How did the 757 exceed it's maximum speed without breaking up?
How did a hijacker fly a plane he has never flown with the skills veteran pilots with over 20,000 hours of flight time do not have?
Why do the people who were on the commission state the report was a white wash?
Why has it taken 9 years for government, military, political and intelligence personal to speak out?
Why do 99% of the American people seem to not care?

Those are questions that will lead to the truth!

reply to post by theregonnakillme


If you acknowledge that " People may very well have taken bodies out of the Pentagon, and they may well have been ticketed passengers ." I don't see the relevance of your subsequent questions ; which have been answered over and over again.

reply to post by freedom12


The guy in the following link did a thorough analysis of the engine parts (photos) that were at the Pentagon .

His conclusion was that all of the engine parts were found to be identical to or at least consistent with , the engines of Flight 77 .

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Originally posted by network dude
you are correct, but as I have seen in other military applications, they usually get the good stuff first. But even if all they had were multiplexers and vcr's, there would still be more video.

The only evidence we have for this are about 2-3 shrouded dome cams per side of the pentagon, but it's very unlikely they would be aimed correctly to capture any plane. They would be for grounds surveillance.

From the old reports I heard, the video recovered form surrounding areas were in fact tapes. The pentagon is supposed to be one of the most secure buildings in the united states. as I said, wal mart has more than two cameras covering the front of their building.

The plane didn't hit the front, and the local wal-mart isn't exactly as big as the Pentagon.

But since we the people aren't privy to the amount of footage that exists, or how many camera angles were available, people like me will just be pissing in the wind when asking for more video. It just seems that not showing it is making them look guilty of something.

That's not entirely true, we know that 84 related videotapes exist, but only one shows a relatively clear image, and one shows slightly less. The videos from two hotel and the gas station across the way have been released, and you can make a FOIA request for others if you really wanted to. You can see the details we have here: www.911myths.com...

edit: I just want to say I do come off as being a bit aggressive, sorry about that. I'm not really disputing anything you're saying, just providing my perspective on it

Originally posted by theregonnakillme
Why was the damage to the pentagon restricted to a single hole?

Because one plane hit it.

Why is there no video footage from the hundreds of cameras?

There is, see your next question.

Why did the government release footage from a car park entry camera that did not show the plane?

It does show the plane, that's why they released it.

Why did the "Plane" go past the White house and head for the recently strengthen section of the Pentagon?

The only guys you could ask that for sure are dead. Perhaps they did not know where the white house was in relation to the Pentagon, or feared it would be better protected.

How did the 757 exceed it's maximum speed without breaking up?

Maximum speed is a safety limit, not an ultimate limit

How did a hijacker fly a plane he has never flown with the skills veteran pilots with over 20,000 hours of flight time do not have?

He didn't, he flew it quite sloppily, and he had plenty of practise.

Why do the people who were on the commission state the report was a white wash?

Because they were prevented from investigating failures of the government in intelligence, on the day responses etc.

Why has it taken 9 years for government, military, political and intelligence personal to speak out?

It hasn't, lots of people have been disagreeing for the last 9 years.

Why do 99% of the American people seem to not care?

Because they don't, sorry to break it to you but most people don't give a crap about this sort of thing, they want to continue on with their lives ignoring the hard questions. It's true of any country really.

reply to post by dereks


Hey Dereks,

the low impact point requires the engines of 767 to impact ground 1st.