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Why Two Geniuses Delved Into The Occult

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posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 05:52 PM
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Why Two Geniuses Delved Into The Occult





In his latest book, Deciphering the Cosmic Number, historian of science Arthur I Miller investigates the bizarre friendship between quantum physics pioneer Wolfgang Pauli and famed psychoanalyst Carl Jung.

Together, the two great thinkers delved into mysticism, numerology and alchemy in their quest to understand the universe and themselves.


Source

It could make it more acceptable for people to study the occult, secret society's, ufos or whatever else and not instantly be labeled a crazy person by the mainstream.



And they each gained a friend and a profitable insight into a very different way of thinking about the universe.






posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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Yeah, thats why the one book of Jung was so long hidden by his ancestors and the Jung society...
Doesnt woner me that it comes out now in these times!
But i think everyone who is into the spiritual or occult subject i seem to be clear that he came to this conclusions...


Peace

Jim



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by GoodLuckCharm
 


To be fair most well-known scientists have had some involvement with the Occult. Francis Bacon, who essentially established the scientific method in the West, was a well-known alchemist. The same goes for Paracelsus, the founder of modern chemistry. Newton was actually more interested in the Occult than physics. Even people like Einstein appear to have had a passing interest in it. Even the famed adept of the 20th century, Fulcanelli, was supposedly a French physicist of some renown. That is if you subscribe to Patrick Riviere's theory about Fulcanelli's identity.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Very interesting, did not know about any of this. Thanks.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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Being ultra intelligent doesn't stop you from being crazy, in fact it usually helps. Sir Isaac Newton suffered from psychosis


He broke with his friends, crawled into a corner, accused his intimates of plotting against him, and reported conversations that never took place.55


and there has been a lot of speculation about a link between high IQ and aspergers syndrome

edit on 15-9-2010 by davespanners because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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To me it would only make sense. It seems instead of accepting the "norm" as fact, people of a higher intellect would actively seek out learning, no matter the direction. Also, the term occult hasn't always had the negative connotations it does today, it simply meant hidden, and who wouldn't want to know something hidden? Finally, yes they say there is a thin line between genius and insanity, I suspect there is alot of truth in this statement, Tesla comes to mind. Interesting topic, thanks. S&F

edit on 15-9-2010 by adifferentbreed because: spelling



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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Nice, some great posts so far, this is certainly an intriguing subject. Also note, that a lot of the worlds most powerful families seem to have connections with satanism/occultism. I find it interesting that some how this extremely corrupt minority of people (I would call them TPTB) manage to gain so much power and wealth. I don't believe in God or Satan for one second, but some times I think there is more to this occult business than we are being made aware of. A related thread: The 13 Satanic Bloodlines of the Illuminati

EDIT: And I will definitely have to get this book, looks like it should be a thought provoking read to say the least.

edit on 15/9/10 by CHA0S because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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Interesting thread.
S+F.
Jung also designed a pack of Tarot cards, and explored the idea of the gods and archangels being archetypes of the subconscious.
I think it was this which eventually ended up in the parting of the ways with his teacher Freud, but I could be mistaken on that.
Many prominent people were and are members of occult organisations.
John Dee, who was an alchemist and astrologer to Queen Elizabeth the first, also contacted angelic beings who helped him develop a magical system known as Enochian.

I find it interesting that the occult has always been discredited throughout the past few hundred years by TPTB.
Maybe to ensure that the 'common' people don't try to obtain the same degree of power to live their lives in freedom out of fear of ridicule or death.

Anyway thanks for the thread and susequent posts.

edit on 15-9-2010 by Illegal Alien because: Edited to add extra thoughts.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
Being ultra intelligent doesn't stop you from being crazy, in fact it usually helps. Sir Isaac Newton suffered from psychosis


I starred your post only because I agree with you in opposite terms:

Not being "ultra intelligent" does prevent you from being "crazy"... You catch my drift? What most people believe is probably wrong in all cases honestly.

Jung was an unparalleled genius in our modern era and just read his "Man and His Symbols" changed the way I look at everything.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Illegal Alien
 


The schism between Jung and Freud came about simply because Jung didn't believe that the unconscious was ruled by sexual urges. Jung's more "out there" ideas didn't come about until after he had parted ways with Freud.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Thanks for the correction there.
Had a sneaky feeling I might be wrong on that one.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Thanks guys,great thread.I wish i knew more so i could have a decent conversation with all of you on the subject,but in the words of arnold "ill be back" after some research



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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I starred your post only because I agree with you in opposite terms:

Not being "ultra intelligent" does prevent you from being "crazy"... You catch my drift? What most people believe is probably wrong in all cases honestly.

Jung was an unparalleled genius in our modern era and just read his "Man and His Symbols" changed the way I look at everything.


I think I understand, do you mean that maybe they can see a truth that most ordinary people can't, I would agree with that in some cases.
There are lots of cases of geniuses going through long periods of real mental illness though like Schizophrenia, paranoid delusions etc

John Nash is a good example his life was portrayed in the film "A beautiful mind" and his theories are used in many field today


His theories are used in market economics, computing, evolutionary biology, artificial intelligence, accounting, politics and military theory.

He had a mind that could instinctively see complex patterns in things that most people can't, unfortunatly he also saw the same patterns when they simply didn't exists and it lead him into a world of paranoid delusions


Nash began to show signs of extreme paranoia and his wife later described his behavior as erratic, as he began speaking of characters like Charles Herman and William Parcher who were putting him in danger. Nash seemed to believe that there was an organization chasing him, in which all men wore red ties. Nash mailed letters to embassies in Washington, D.C., declaring that they were establishing a government.[7][8]


John nash



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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I read this book awhile ago.

i especially found interesting his mention of kabbalah and its significant of being teh gematria of 137.

As the author explains, 137 is the DNA of an atom - the value of the difference between the two spectral lines.

This AMAZINGLY parallels the Hebrew word kabbalah, which means 'recieved'. Archetypally, it means any transference between two realities, the spiritual and the physical. It also symbolizes the overall reality that everuything is mirrored; this world being the physical manifestation of the spiritual world (or as Jung and paulie would call it, the world of archetypes).

Thus, the 2 spectral lines symbolize the spiritual and the physical. And the number which differentiates them the concept which in kabbalah actually unifies the two realities.....

He also made mention of the incredible fact that kabbalah (recieved) is the sum of Naviah (prophecy or clairvoyance) and Hokmah (wisdom) both essential aspects to recieving (kabbalah) Divine direction.

I also noted that at the end he mentioned that reality is governed by 26 fundamental constants. This is also pretty amazing, because teh gematria of the tetragramaton (aswell as the God) is 26. The Kabbalists have always referred to this name as the 'essential' name, which all reality patterns itself after. Funny that physical reality so far established is maintained through 26 streams or physical constants..... Mirroring yet again beautifully the spiritual mechanics as explained through kabbalah.

Rabbi Isaac Ginsburgh has also noted that the gematria of Elohim, 86, which conceptually represents the archetype of 'contraction' and restriction of divine light, is mirrored physically by the 86 naturally occuring metals in the peridoic table. We can assure ourselves that no more will be discovered, since the last element discovered was in 1947. As for the symbolic association. There are 4 physical kingdoms which parallel the 4 letters in the tetragrammaton as well as the 4 kabbalistic worlds (and you could further connect this to Jungs 4 functions which in itself is a reinterpretation of the kabbalistic 4 worlds). They are Human, Animal, Vegetable, and Inanimate which inthemselves correspond to the functions of speech (man) thought (animal) emotion (vegetable) and action (inanimate). Suffice to say the conceptual correlations are quite mystical. Anywho, the lowest kingdom, inanimate, symbolies the most contrraction revelation of divine life, and therefore, the name Elohim is most present in this kingdo - - which means its quite startling to discover that metals, which demonstrate such a protractec form of life, appear in 86 different varities - paralleling the divine name Elohim and its archetypal nature. Metal is therefore the physical manifestation of this eternal principle.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Rabbi Isaac Ginsburgh has also noted that the gematria of Elohim, 86, which conceptually represents the archetype of 'contraction' and restriction of divine light, is mirrored physically by the 86 naturally occuring metals in the peridoic table. We can assure ourselves that no more will be discovered, since the last element discovered was in 1947.


That I don't feel too comfortable with, for the simple reason that some of the "synthetically created" elements have subsequently been found to occur in nature - admittedly prior to the 1949 cut-off mentioned. The fact that an element can be synthesised surely suggests that, given the right conditions, all of them might be later found to occur "in nature" if you look in the right places?

There was a 53 year gap before someone came up with the idea of using a new technique to identify elements (Ruthenium was identified in 1807, followed by a lull until Caesium was identified using sprectrum analysis in 1860). What is to say we are simply in another lull, waiting for the next step in technology to let us look further?

Source - Wikipedia link - hardly authorative but hopefully accurate enough

In relation to the original topic, however, I completely understand the interest in learning things that sit outside of the mainstream. I find many of the ideas fascinating, though I have no interest in doing anything more than just reading for my own curiosity.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by EvillerBob

Originally posted by dontreally
Rabbi Isaac Ginsburgh has also noted that the gematria of Elohim, 86, which conceptually represents the archetype of 'contraction' and restriction of divine light, is mirrored physically by the 86 naturally occuring metals in the peridoic table. We can assure ourselves that no more will be discovered, since the last element discovered was in 1947.


That I don't feel too comfortable with, for the simple reason that some of the "synthetically created" elements have subsequently been found to occur in nature - admittedly prior to the 1949 cut-off mentioned. The fact that an element can be synthesised surely suggests that, given the right conditions, all of them might be later found to occur "in nature" if you look in the right places?

There was a 53 year gap before someone came up with the idea of using a new technique to identify elements (Ruthenium was identified in 1807, followed by a lull until Caesium was identified using sprectrum analysis in 1860). What is to say we are simply in another lull, waiting for the next step in technology to let us look further?

Source - Wikipedia link - hardly authorative but hopefully accurate enough

In relation to the original topic, however, I completely understand the interest in learning things that sit outside of the mainstream. I find many of the ideas fascinating, though I have no interest in doing anything more than just reading for my own curiosity.


Well, the periodic table still notes 86 naturally occuring metals.

If they can be synthesized, i dont think that necessarily implies that they can than be found in nature. Can plastic be found in nature? Is it perhaps hiding beneath the earths crust? Or look at us. concepts dont exist unless mankind is there to give reality to them. Maybe the 86 naturally occuring metals and the name elohim, with its gematria of 86, are specifically only those 86 naturally occuring metals and not those that can be synthesized. Afterall, Hateva (nature in hebrew) also has the gematria of 86.

I think i'll wait and see. right now, it looks promising. I believe that Hebrew is archetypally speaking, the language from which the creator created the universe. The archetypal spiritual realm being the hebrew language, with its associated concepts, and the physical being the manifestation of this higher reality.

To many, understandably, this sounds ludicrous. But...I think theres something to it. I was initially skeptical before i began studying Hebrew.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
If they can be synthesized, i dont think that necessarily implies that they can than be found in nature. Can plastic be found in nature? Is it perhaps hiding beneath the earths crust?


That is a very good point about plastic, I will take that onboard. My concern with elements was primarily that synthesis appears to occur through various forms of bombardment of one element with another, which I could envisage occuring in some natural - though very hostile I would imagine, such as a star perhaps? - environments. Combined with this, the fact that the situation had already happened more than once - something thought only to exist in a lab was later found in nature. My background in physics and chemistry is notably weak unfortunately, so perhaps I am not well placed to comment further on that matter.


Originally posted by dontreally
I believe that Hebrew is archetypally speaking, the language from which the creator created the universe. The archetypal spiritual realm being the hebrew language, with its associated concepts, and the physical being the manifestation of this higher reality.

To many, understandably, this sounds ludicrous...


Actually, no it doesn't sound ludicrous. Language is an incredibly powerful tool and it is the way in which we describe, define and indeed create the world around us. The more flexible a language becomes, the more we are able to formulate, articulate and communicate complex ideas. You cannot talk about God when you only have words for "food", "water" and "shelter". Well, perhaps you can, but it would be a rather confusing conversation and would probably involve a lot of gesticulation.

I can quite appreciate that there may be some languages that are far more suited to discussing concepts beyond the "simple" physical world.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


So, is Chabad Rabbi and kabbalist Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh a Lubavitcher?
A Sabbatean?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by dontreally
 


So, is Chabad Rabbi and kabbalist Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh a Lubavitcher?
A Sabbatean?


Why would you ask that?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Occult study is the study of hidden knowledge.

Hidden knowledge was DEMONIZED by the Christian faith which fabricated its own stories from old pagan ideas in the first place.

That faith copied every story and idea from earlier stories and tweaked them into its own newer and slightly different "original" twist and then labeled the original stories and study as EVIL and FALSE, and continues to preach to its cult members in a way that instructs the sheep to demonize everything else regardless of what it really is about.

But its that faith which is the counterfeit and actual "demon" of everything out there...

So "intelligence and occult" (hidden knowledge) goes hand in hand just as well as "Uneducated and Christianity" in my HONEST opinion.

Perfect pairs they most certainly are...





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