Economic Manipulation and how it leads to Religious Extremism

Nice thread, lots of great posts, good info!

Definitely a correlation between general misery, and extremism in it's many forms, religious, political, etc., I would certainly agree. If those stats someone posted about the tight correlation between unemployment and crime are right, then yeah, slam dunk. I was initially thinking more about pre-war Germany, and the rise of Nazism, but I see that was already raised.

As far as the "economic" tool used to aggravate affairs, it sure does seem to be a powerful one in the hands of our masters, although maybe not always as appreciated as something more obvious, like war for example.

It's an interesting focus. I think examining this angle more closely might be particularly important today, because the economy can be manipulated to such a fine degree, even though most still imagine that the economy is somehow this mostly unmanageable beast, that can never be tamed.

It almost seems as if those using such a tool could get more mileage out of the economic tool in the long run, than warfare, as a comparison, because it is that much more "controlled". And yet, if history is a guide, it may easily lead right up to a full-blown hot war.

Depending upon the goals of a particular "campaign" (to deliberately induce a level of misery), TPTB could conceivably use a poor economic situation to gradually take the masses to a predetermined "crescendo", perhaps allowing for hope here, and then dashing it all there, prolonging the agony, carefully meting out just enough torture to accomplish the desired aim. All along, various scapegoats can be pushed forward, playing to fears the mob has, all precisely by design.

Easy enough to imagine, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think we could all be at each others throats soon enough, and perhaps never even realize that we had in fact been manipulated (that would be the exact word for it). So, Proto, you got something here I think.

Conveniently, we are already fragmented, this group in this pen, another part of the herd in another. When it's time for the crescendo, perhaps all Massa has to do is open up a gate here or there, and let us tear each other apart. As pointed out, they do seem to keep us fairly keyed-up, probably a good reason for that.

I personally don't have a good feel yet for when TPTB might cull the herd, although I agree that it is the most logical thing to happen, at some point. This should be a "real" concern for all of us of course, yes, lots of "useless eaters", but so many things are already in play, at times I imagine that our masters are OK with their form of Asiatic gradualism, there's no question they have demonstrated an almost inhuman "patience". And we do have to be careful to not buy into whatever the next big scare is.

The current big scare is Islam, so the religious connection is certainly prescient. In Europe, they seem to have it more in their face, like in France, but in the US, probably not as much as the media might have us believing. Doesn't it seem like someone is fanning the flames? To what end? Of course, just when Osama bin Laden is getting old, we get a new Emanuel Goldstein to hate. "Creeping Islam", or sharia law, coming to a planet near you!

While we should obviously remain vigilant, there definitely are real scary things going on, IMHO, we all need to be extra careful when we find ourselves too easily vilifying some group, some religion. Could be a sign that someone is pulling our strings! We have all likely done it, we are sort of naturally programmed to behave this way. But Massa knows this too! Of course he acts accordingly. He seems to know his herd.

Last thing. Artificial scarcity! Right on, brutha.

Folks, I think we need to emphasize the "artificial", and come to really believe there is in fact abundance. Perhaps there are people who can never enjoy such a thing, drug addicts, people who are self-destructive, but they are no excuse for the rest of us! The first step, as we grope for the exit from this Matrix, might ironically be "faith". We need to really believe that we are being lied to, that things just can't be as preposterous as they seem. We need to believe that there is enough, for me, and for you. Believe that we can both partake, and not have to kill each other in the process. What might the world look like if we all "believed" in rational things like that, instead of gods, ready to smite us for the slightest "sins"...?

If I wasn't too old to figure out how to embed a vid, I'd probably let John Lennon remind us all to truly "Imagine"...

JR

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well I have read it all and I have to say, I don't agree with you what so ever. You are making it seem like all three religions are at war with each other, but that is not the case. I agree that there are parts that have the hate for each other. However there are still many individuals out there who don't feel the hate for the other side.

The ones that hate the other side have always been around and, they will always be around. As long as most of us can evolve from the enemy hating people to individualists we will be alright.

Though you must admit, religion has come a long way since tribal days. It is still evolving, for the better or worse? We will have to find out.

Originally posted by JR MacBeth

Folks, I think we need to emphasize the "artificial", and come to really believe there is in fact abundance. Perhaps there are people who can never enjoy such a thing, drug addicts, people who are self-destructive, but they are no excuse for the rest of us! The first step, as we grope for the exit from this Matrix, might ironically be "faith". We need to really believe that we are being lied to, that things just can't be as preposterous as they seem. We need to believe that there is enough, for me, and for you. Believe that we can both partake, and not have to kill each other in the process. What might the world look like if we all "believed" in rational things like that, instead of gods, ready to smite us for the slightest "sins"...?

Worth repeating. ...Yes, there is abundance.

S&F PpT


I'm wondering though,

How much of this manufactured hate comes from TCPTB (The Corporate Powers That Be) wrestling behind-the-scenes for power and territory? ...Who are the main players? Anyone know?

the divide and conquer strategy is still alive and well, all these years after its famous use against the Gauls by Julius Caesar.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


It's just like I always say, if it's not broke don't fix it! Divide and conquer will always work as long as people are afraid of one another's differences.

Personally I enjoy different people, people from different colors, different religions, different nationalities. Makes me feel connected to the larger world.

It exposes me to some great food.

It helps me to see the world from a whole lot of different perspectives instead of just my own.

The truth is we all want the same basic things, a good meal, a dry place with a good roof, some space to stretch our legs, some friends and family to lie to about how exciting our boring day was, etc., etc.

For the life of me, I have no idea why we all just can't respect one another and get along.

But then again they call me crazy!

Thanks for posting the great video my friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



I started reading the OP yesterday, but life has been busy. Just got back to it tonight. Have a few other threads to hit over the next couple of days, along with keeping up here (and finishing the last 2 pages).

There are so many things that keep humans fighting, but I think at the heart of it all lies the will to dominate. The fact that we can pick up items and manipulate them to such a degree is highly unique in the world. I have been considering how amazing it must be to my dog that I can pick them up, walk around the house and do things while carrying them, and then sit and throw a ball. The have no frame of reference for control to such a degree, is see it as a sort of wonder.

If you watch them long enough, they will even tolerate another dog sitting right on top of their head. Dogs tend to put up with things that the average human would not.

I cannot speak on other animals because we really do not get to watch and interact with them in any sort of natural way. But i think humans ability to manipulate things using fine motor skills has created a brain that prefers to dominate and control rather than exist and participate. Consider it in context with the two schools of thought of "man rules the world" vs "man is part of the world". It is the classic Amerind vs European mindset.

I got the game man, how do I win? You know what I'm saying, what do we do to fix this? I always love your threads and posts by the way and this one aswell. However, I've been thinking about this and everyone loves being a victim and with the world the way it is, everyone's a victim. SO, first and foremost I want to say that we need to start actively DOING something, IDK what, but it seems to me like everyone just wants to be a victim and NOT do anything about it. Until we can start agreeing that yes, there are people pulling strings to get their agenda across, yes it is bigger, deeper and more intericate then we understand and yes it is in fact time to do something about this...I'm looking to hear a plan if anyones got one.

Originally posted by agentofchaos
I got the game man, how do I win? You know what I'm saying, what do we do to fix this? I always love your threads and posts by the way and this one aswell. However, I've been thinking about this and everyone loves being a victim and with the world the way it is, everyone's a victim. SO, first and foremost I want to say that we need to start actively DOING something, IDK what, but it seems to me like everyone just wants to be a victim and NOT do anything about it. Until we can start agreeing that yes, there are people pulling strings to get their agenda across, yes it is bigger, deeper and more intericate then we understand and yes it is in fact time to do something about this...I'm looking to hear a plan if anyones got one.

Yes. DO SOMETHING. Indeed.

Someone else said that not too long ago...



Me? I don't know what to do. Yet.

But I made a blog so that I could at least make sure that when I was on deck, I would already be warmed up. For now I am spreading the word. I think PT is doing the same. You should join in. Find an avenue. Find a way to reach people. DO something.

That is good advice.

Right now the only plan I can think of is to wake up as many folks as you can. Point out that the GOP leaders have all moved into the Tea Party, and they are not voting for any change other than a change in brand name. Point out that we live under the oppressive tyranny of half a million laws, an illegal tax code, and a shrinking radius of liberty.

We don't have to agree on the solution yet. We are still trying to agree that there is actually a problem.

Originally posted by Perseus Apex
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Your amazon book review article concerning the secret society 'how to' business made me think of just another threat on.....or rather in your horizon: I believe the msm missed this one as well. It seems so few are awAre of such 'things', no?

Seemed appropriate.....
Maybe not.

edit on 16-9-2010 by Perseus Apex because: (no reason given)

Of course, the "threat" of identity theft, something that is a misnomer completely.

This is a double-edged sword used against us through the threat of our credit rating going into the toilet.

And information as a commodity which goes hand in hand with the economic manipulation.

This is merely towards ushering in faster the cashless society and the bio-chip.

Verichip, Digital Angel, and Destron Fearing making you a fleeced sheep if you do not submit.

Quote from : Destron Fearing Website

Destron Fearing is a global leader in innovative animal identification. With presence in over 40 countries worldwide we seek to provide real world ID solutions to match the ever increasing complexity and opportunities related to animal identification. Since 1945 we have provided innovative products addressing the needs of livestock producers, companion animal owners, horse owners, wildlife managers and government agencies.

Destron Fearing provides a full complement of radio frequency identification products and software solutions to automate the collection of critical livestock production and carcass information. Individual and herd information can then be easily transferred between all parties involved in the production and retail of meat products. Information sharing allows the food industry to meet the discriminating demands of the market place.

Already this system has creeped into 40 countries since 1945 and we as citizens are the herd to them.

Starting with animals and tracking her migration patterns towards animal testing before moving to humans.

This is tied as well to the horrendous cattle mutilations and alleged "alien abductions".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/366698c1299b.jpg[/atsimg]

Through all of this it is nothing but the Mark of the Beast of Biblical prophecy.

The Washington D.C. think-tanks think we as citizens do not know they took the Bible and studied it.

Creating from the tales of Revelations the device which was foretold of thousands of years prior.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a59e58fbb44f.jpg[/atsimg]

To them we are nothing but sheep, cattle, and useless eaters who need slave collars.

I can trace this back to Nazi Germany and the corporation which has the most to gain.

International Business Machine or more commonly known as the Blue Chip corporation, I.B.M.

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3c9c27969530.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

Was IBM, "The Solutions Company," partly responsible for the Final Solution? That's the question raised by Edwin Black's IBM and the Holocaust, the most controversial book on the subject since Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners. Black, a son of Holocaust survivors, is less tendentiously simplistic than Goldhagen, but his thesis is no less provocative: he argues that IBM founder Thomas Watson deserved the Merit Cross (Germany's second-highest honor) awarded him by Hitler, his second-biggest customer on earth. "IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success," writes Black. "IBM had almost single-handedly brought modern warfare into the information age [and] virtually put the 'blitz' in the krieg."
The crucial technology was a precursor to the computer, the IBM Hollerith punch card machine, which Black glimpsed on exhibit at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, inspiring his five-year, top-secret book project. The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data. Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort. Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians? Better scholars than I must sift through and appraise Black's mountainous evidence, but clearly the assessment is overdue.

The moral argument turns on one question: How much did IBM New York know about IBM Germany's work, and when? Black documents a scary game of brinksmanship orchestrated by IBM chief Watson, who walked a fine line between enraging U.S. officials and infuriating Hitler. He shamefully delayed returning the Nazi medal until forced to--and when he did return it, the Nazis almost kicked IBM and its crucial machines out of Germany. (Hitler was prone to self-defeating decisions, as demonstrated in How Hitler Could Have Won World War II.)

Black has created a must-read work of history. But it's also a fascinating business book examining the colliding influences of personality, morality, and cold strategic calculation. --Tim Appelo

Nothing more sinister than tracking our whereabouts through information is tied to economic manipulation and religious extremism.

IBM RFID Commercial - The Future Market


And the first hole in the dyke is broken across the Mexico/America Border with the R.F.I.D. chip.

Microchip in Mexico Law enforcement


The entire guise of the plight of Arizona is nothing more than a smokescreen and misdirection.

Mexico : The American/Mexican Border, Why Your Rights Are Gone, Because of Arizona...

Look at the left hand holding your rights while the left hand is stabbing you in the back.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well put together thread, good job

To sum up how I feel about this topic [generally] - Religion is given/forced upon people who are susceptible to being manipulated, however that may not always be the case. People just need something to believe in, and unfortunately they sometimes take the easy way out and allow themselves to 'follow the herd' per-say and allow themselves to rationalize what they believe in (or think they do anyway) just to make themselves feel better about the world around them.

I'd like to make an additional point on this subject if I may, Pro-Trav...

As you are aware, I am much interested in Roman history. I also have collected ancient coins for 25 years and thus have a good feel for the monetary foundational structures in place at the time of the Roman Empire, as well as the Greeks before. In fact, my ATS avatar is a coin in my personal collection. It is a tetradrachm of Alexander the Great and was struck about 20 years after his death in 323 BCE.

My only point would be this: The close association that you have drawn in this thread regarding God, country and King has a very important element of truth that has its roots in ancient history. This association got its beginning with Constantine the Great who, in my opinion, faked a vision of the Christian God giving him authority. Constantine then organized the councils where the recognized books of the New Testament were selected as well as giving the Emperor a place of honor he did not deserve. More importantly, he established the idea that the King was God’s chosen leader. This tradition has been promoted down through the ages and even in the world today is promoted for the purpose of "keeping 'em in line" by TPTB. It is important to realize the false idea of the King as God's oracle was a false claim of a power hungry man back then, as it is today.

Originally posted by Jenna
Now on to what I've quoted above, this is something I've never understood about religion. If a god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving, why would he/she/it/whatever support or demand violence against those who don't believe in them? If they were all-knowing, they would know who doesn't believe and why they don't. If they're all-powerful, they could change it if they wanted to. If they're all-loving, they would love the non-believers as much as the believers and the point would be rather moot. If they are none of those things, how are they a god? If they are all of those things, then why is it even an issue if someone doesn't believe?

As far as how it ties into economic manipulation, I have to say that seeing the Pope makes me laugh. As do all the religious leaders who drive around in expensive cars while half their followers are struggling to make ends meet. You have to wonder why the Pope needs fancy shoes and why Pastor Tim needs a shiny new Cadillac to drive through the poor areas of town on his way to church every Sunday. (I'd give examples from other religions, but I don't know them well enough. Fill in your own example from other religions here.) Telling your followers that god wants them to give money every week/month/whatever the time frame, only to have it go to the religious leader instead of the poor is manipulation and greed no matter how you spin it yet the masses buy into it.

God is not demanding that people kill anyone. Sadly too many people of every major religion think that they must force others to believe as they do. As a Christian, it saddens me that people twist the religion to their own ends.

I do think that much of it is economics, especially when it comes to Islamic terrorism. These young men are thoroughly brainwashed into thinking Allah wants them to destroy the infidel, but I think that if they were able to have decent jobs, to take care of themselves and their families, they would be much less prone to the brainwashing.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
God is not demanding that people kill anyone. Sadly too many people of every major religion think that they must force others to believe as they do. As a Christian, it saddens me that people twist the religion to their own ends.

Oh, I know. Unfortunately many people believe their god does demand it. It's like they haven't bothered to think that one all the way through.

These young men are thoroughly brainwashed into thinking Allah wants them to destroy the infidel, but I think that if they were able to have decent jobs, to take care of themselves and their families, they would be much less prone to the brainwashing.

I'm not so sure about that... Having money doesn't make people smarter, and given Tom Cruise it doesn't make them less likely to get suckered in by a religion either.

reply to post by Jenna


Well no, but when people are poor, it is easier to convince them that the "great satan" is responsible and that God will reward them for killing as many infidels as possible.

One thing that glinted in the distance for me was your shell game analogy. You said the trick of the game is to keep the ball on the palm of your hand. The implication being, of course, that all three selections are wrong. In order win the game you would have to select the trickster's hand, but that would violate the rules of the game.

I have a particularly deep and possibly profound question for you, my mentor.

You can answer most of the basic questions about the shell game: how is it carried out; who is running it; where is the ball; when did they start it; and why are they doing it.

But there is a question yet to be answered and that is:

What is the ball?