Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2

reply to post by SLAYER69


I only had the one issue dealing with the "Shaver Mystery".
I bought it off ebay a few years ago.When I threw away my
UFO research,I included that magazine.One of my neighbors
took the box from beside my garbage can,they have it now.

I used to subscribe to a science fiction magazine,I think I
still have them.A story from that magazine that I remember
was "Her Furry Face".

Originally posted by The-Hammer

Originally posted by lostinspace
Hey awake1234, I'm beginning to believe the Great Pyramid of Giza is in fact a highly complex Dolmen. The air shafts seem to be similar in nature to the small opening in the dolmens. The dolmens and the GPG are designed to invite UFOs that appear as balls of light.

Can you go into more detail.
I know what Dolmens are and have read many things regarding the Great Pyramid but how are you making the connection? I fail to see it.

One of the most common UFO sightings are flying balls of light. This phenomena has been seen for millennia. Awake1234 quoted from the Anastasia book saying what the dolmens were used for. They imply that the hole is meant for the mediator to enter and await for an answer. The Anastasia Dolmen artwork is covered with images of balls of light. I have a feeling these holes in the dolmens were entrances for the UFOs. The mediator would sit outside dolmen and await a divine answer.

There are four air shafts of the Great Pyramid of Giza. Two are in the King’s chamber and two are in the Queen’s chamber. One of the queen’s chamber shafts is being explored by a robot. The other shaft in the queen’s chamber ends under the grand gallery. In any event the four shafts do not open to the exterior of the pyramid. However, the King’s chamber shafts come close to the surface. Some say these shafts point to important constellations related to Egyptian theology. Others say they are exit points for Khufu’s spirit to exit the tomb.

What I was proposing is that these shafts may have been meant to attract the UFOs so that they come inside the pyramid. These balls of light can appear very large or very small. These things could have traversed the shafts and penetrated through some of the exterior stones to get to the center chambers. The human receiver(s) could have waited in the grand gallery to pick up the message from their god or gods.

thank you slayer!

awesome thread and very well done!

when reading about ancient history, i always get the feeling the established/official time lines are off.

not saying you are wrong at all about anything.

but it doesn't make a lot of sense that people would travel the land bridge to go all that way to set up cotton plantations

and not leave traces.

i think they came from the west over the ocean. easter island included.

so much was presented and responded, forgive me if i seem to blend too many things!

looking forward to #3.

reply to post by fooks


From the west you say ?

We got a guy in my country that claims that every language comes from the Dutch language.
Even the most unlikely words he knows to slice and dice until they look Dutch...

Would you believe him ?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8df2eb896c8c.gif[/atsimg]

Your work has my seal of approval with a star and flag.

I was worried there for a second.
pheww!

Originally posted by lostinspace
What I was proposing is that these shafts may have been meant to attract the UFOs so that they come inside the pyramid. These balls of light can appear very large or very small. These things could have traversed the shafts and penetrated through some of the exterior stones to get to the center chambers. The human receiver(s) could have waited in the grand gallery to pick up the message from their god or gods.

I've seen a few docos on the investigations into the shafts. They were very interesting. I however am sticking to a slightly more down to Earth explanation. I'll agree that the Egyptians may have thought that the shafts would direct the Pharaohs soul/life energy towards the heavens but anything past that IMO is speculation I believe.

Where can I go to complain that ATS's new layout is terrible? I absolutely hate it. This thread for instance is on the front page but unlike before the link doesn't show how many flags it's gotten. Why in the world would they change this? I always looked to see how many flags a threads gotten because for me that always helped weed out the really good threads, from the decent and sub par. Change it back ATS or at least put how many flags the threads gotten on the front page.

reply to post by Jedimind


On the recent post page you can see whats presently active and how many flags they have. here. If you have a suggestion or a concern about the new site layout please direct it here.

Thank you.

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
A full day of Decorating,cooking and nursing, I was bushed but had to read Part2 Slayer.......Another great innings well done! Book I'd cut out the middle man and go for the Discovery Channel...Slayers: Uncovering The Ancients.....
S+F as usual

I have a rather interesting inquiry from an outside that has been brought to my attention by another member stay tuned.

Originally posted by dethduck
The origins of the Atlantis "myth" is no great secret. It is simply a story created by Plato. It was never anything more or less than that. It NEVER appears anywhere in history, archeological or otherwise; before then or afterwards except in reference to or influenced by Plato's story.

Some believed his tale was influenced by past events such as the Battle of Troy, while others think he was retelling more recent events. To me it sounds more like a idealized romanticized version of the Roman Empire.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Plato wrote about Atlantis prior to the Roman empire...

Hello Slayer,

As usual, very well presented and a definite page-scroller.

Thanks for the heads-up on the post. I attempted to send you a reply, but not having the gift of gab I'm still shy of the 20 posts required to gain that privilege, so now everyone will have the opportunity to suffer along with you.

Just something I found interesting regarding your map of ancient civilizations:


It conveys the stark contrast between ancient civilizations of Eurasia and Africa with those in the Americas. I alluded to this disparity in my article Atlantis—The Land Beyond The Pillars:

"From the dawn of civilization, major rivers like the Indus, Euphrates, Tigris and the Nile all served as important transportation arteries and trade routes, spawning increased trade and the advancement of ancient civilization."

Interestingly, Plato states that Atlantis maintained a thriving self-sufficient economy centered around a similarly large and highly navigable waterway. There's only one river complex that approaches the size and navigability of the aforementioned rivers, while also conforming to Plato's unique requirement of being laid out in the shape of an 1,150-mile perimeter rectangle surrounding a flat plain and it just happens to lie in the Americas.

Anyway, another great post and definitely looking forward to part 3. I don't visit ATS quite as often as in the past, but your posts definitely make it worth the visit. I had scant familiarity with the diversity and wide distribution of megaliths so this proved to be truly awe-inspiring material and much appreciated.

Thanks again,
Doug Fisher

reply to post by Doug Fisher


Hey Doug,

I appreciated the reply. I will be heading towards that part of the world in Part-3 so stay tuned.
You're right the map posted does leave out many other locations that should be looked at out.

I'm glad you enjoyed Part-1 and 2

reply to post by Doug Fisher

People don't notice when they state the rise of atlantis, it's interpretation.
Atlantis is long gone, we are atlantis today. It's atlantis at it's peak before it will fall again from grace in the comming night. The morning star is located for haps somewhere off the coast of california. It's where the morning begins and where the night ends. Summer west, Night east. Atlantis was part of the summer west. Because it's the very notion of atlantis rising, it's part of the morning star that is ascending or the sun rising in the morning. Everything has a middle point, for fall and for rise. It's the two meeting points. The falling point would be somewhere in eastern europe.

It's clear what go's up will come down. Since everything is a cicle it will rise and fall by eliptical orbit in a circle.
The atlantic ocean for haps is just a description of the brige betwen the west and the east.
Just my opinion.
Everything has a purpose, when atlantis will be at it's peak it will fall again due to lack of better understanding.
When people are going to learn to live in peace they will begin to understand "- |" with wisdom these events.
Until then atlantis will keep on falling.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by SassyCat

 

The bag!

I knew the minute I decided to use that image that the "Bag" would be brought up.
I've seen the Sumerian connection theory before. It is rather interesting. I do have a slightly different spin on it and the meaning of the Olmec carvings but you'll just have to wait for Part-3.

These photos and comparisons should be posted with the context of the person depicted brought into the discussion. That is Oannes (also know by other names). Bag or bag of tricks, wisdom ect.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by SassyCat

 

I could be wrong...
aren't these carvings a depiction of the philistine god dagon?

No, but similar.

Harte

The important thing here is the idea of someone comming and teaching things to disorganized people....you have that in both places. You can find it in the Popol Vul, an early Quetzalcoatl type person but not much is recorded of the fist personality other that the main points of coming and setting up the kingdoms from primitive tribes recovering from a great disaster......just like the Dagon dude. So the basket is sort of like an asterisk **

If one were to take a good look at this map of the population distribution of our current civilization (c. 1994), it seems fairly obvious that we tend to congregate along coastal regions, or inland lake areas. No doubt this was the practice in ancient times, so we can assume that if the water levels were lower, that we would have settled in these regions. They would not have had the foresight, at least not thousands of years prior, to settle away from the coastal regions because there 'might' be a catastrophe. Even in modern times, we have shown that California could fall into the ocean any day, but this does not detract from people settling in the region.

People would have settled in these regions since they were fertile, both in resources and in climate temperance. Yes there may have been tropical storms, tsunamis etc, however the benefits of a coastal civilization outweigh the downsides. As was mentioned in part 1 of this thread, Plato noted water was RISING not falling from the sky. Correspondingly people may have migrated further inland to get away from the ever encroaching shoreline. This would explain why the oldest records we have were salvaged from caves in mountainous regions. Anything else, buried or otherwise, would be lost under leagues of water. But as I mentioned, people wouldn't completely abandon the coastal regions as the ocean's ability to regulate temperature coupled with the subsequent growing conditions for vegetation would encourage people to remain in that area.

The point I am trying to make is that, much credibility lies with this hypothesis in terms of where we WOULD have been settled had the water level been that low. The questions is, why is this viewed as pseudoscience by so many? Seems to me if you want to know about ancient people, one must first figure out where they were, and why. The coastal regions would be prime real estate for the same reasons today as then.

Here is a small exercise I hope some will try. Imagine we were at the peak of an ice age right now, forget about the ice, just focus on the coastlines. Imagine that the current coast line is such at the height of an ice age. We can take the measurement that 130~ meters of extra coast line are exposed. Now fast forward and melt those caps. Imagine New York, and LA after 130+ meters of water is added to the surrounding oceans. Now, fast forward time 5-15 000 years. Take into account erosion, sedimentation and other recycling effects of the earth. Now resettle the region, at the new edge of the coastline, with a new civilization. Would you have even the slightest inclining, of what existed just meters off shore? How would you even know to look there?

Food for thought!

Cheers

Originally posted by JunoJive
How would you even know to look there?

By records of settlements that disappeared in the water, made by people that knew that they existed and what happened to them.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by JunoJive
How would you even know to look there?

By records of settlements that disappeared in the water, made by people that knew that they existed and what happened to them.

And how would one know for sure that civilization lay there, after 5-15 thousand years of it being destroyed and covered in water? Its the same predicament we are faced with when trying to ascertain if the myths of Atlantis have any truth to them. So much time has passed, what records would be left, what people would remember. We would have legends as we do in these cases. Hence the exercise. And as humans do today, I would imagine the people who did subscribe to such legends or at least suspended disbelief long enough to give it an honest chance, would probably be ridiculed just as heartily as we see today.

Catch 22.

Originally posted by JunoJive
And how would one know for sure that civilization lay there, after 5-15 thousand years of it being destroyed and covered in water?

We can only be sure when we find them, but there would be legends and other oral records of a place that once existed on that place.

Its the same predicament we are faced with when trying to ascertain if the myths of Atlantis have any truth to them.

That's the difference, there are no legends or other records, only Plato's writings.

In a normal case there would be legends from the places that had any relation to that civilisation that supposedly controlled the south-west Europe and north-west Africa, and, as far as I know, there are and never was none.

Originally posted by ArMaP
We can only be sure when we find them, but there would be legends and other oral records of a place that once existed on that place.

I had once read that Plato had received dictation of the legend of Atlantis from a pharaoh, and that this story was based on even earlier legends. I can't seem to recover that text so I must assume this was one small interpretation. The legend however does place the civilization around 9600 BC*.

Originally posted by JunoJive
Its the same predicament we are faced with when trying to ascertain if the myths of Atlantis have any truth to them.

Originally posted by ArMaP
That's the difference, there are no legends or other records, only Plato's writings.

In a normal case there would be legends from the places that had any relation to that civilisation that supposedly controlled the south-west Europe and north-west Africa, and, as far as I know, there are and never was none.

Your point is taken, I do however maintain that at some point, being able to distinguish between oral traditions that became written and from purely manufactured stories grows more difficult as time passes. Plato very well could have been attempting to preserve the very oral traditions you describe. And with the region's tremulous history it would be hard to know for sure. If, for instance, the roman civilization had been wiped out and buried by major catastrophe, leaving little surface trace of their existence, how would one know that this was a real place and not a work of romanticized fiction.

I mean comparatively the roman empire was quite a bit more advanced that most other civilizations on the planet at the time, save perhaps China. An even better example would be Mesopotamia, where a civilization that has been proven to exist (although it was more of a grouping of civilizations**), yet most major evidence of its existence has been built over, occupied and rebuilt, etc. And this was on land, where human beings were likely to stumble upon artifacts etc.

I'm not saying that Atlantis did exist at all, merely that one must take into account the weathering effects of time, and the human need to embellish. Atlantis may well have been another Babylon, embellished to seem wondrous and great.

We 'stumble' upon discoveries every day, some are hidden in plain sight. I know there is a school of thought that the pyramids were re-faced by the Egyptians and had existed for some thousands of years prior to their occupation of the region. Maybe a topic for another thread, however one cannot dispute that humans have never been very good at preserving our history, artifacts, oral traditions, or otherwise. I do, however, find it intriguing that we, even as a fairly advanced society, have yet to satisfactorily prove that this several thousand year old myth, was just that, a myth. Then again I supposed that's not where the burden of proof lies, is it?


Cheers
*Source: Wikipedia (Atlantis)
**Source: Wikipedia (Mesopotamia)