Terrorists destroy mosque. Americans protest building church there!

On September 11, 2001 terrorists struck the United States destroying, among other things, a Mosque that was inside building 6 of the world trade center. Source Now there are plans to build a community center nearby and it is being heavily protested by many in America for what seem to be a mishmash of muddled reasons. This community center is going to have separate prayer facilities for Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

Cordoba Initiative said the name "Cordoba House" was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, Spain, which they called a model of peaceful coexistence between Muslims, Christians, and Jews.[

The proposed facility's design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11 memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 people.[

Source

Cordoba Initiative said the name "Cordoba House" was meant to invoke 8th–11th century Córdoba, Spain, which they called a model of peaceful coexistence between Muslims, Christians, and Jews.[25][35][35] According to The Economist, the name was chosen because Muslims, Jews and Christians created a center of learning in Córdoba together.[

I do not understand why if there was already a ground zero Mosque, they should not have a new one? I do not understand why people are protesting a community center with a multi-use prayer facility.

Originally posted by evil incarnate
I do not understand why if there was already a ground zero Mosque, they should not have a new one? I do not understand why people are protesting a community center with a multi-use prayer facility.

2 words: election year

It's sad really. I mean, it's not at ground zero, it's 2-blocks away. The media keeps calling it "ground zero mosque" because they are trying to push their political agenda and many are taking the bait, making this another polarizing issue of left vs. right.

That's the first I've heard of a mosque having been in building 6.

Thanks for bringing that out.

reply to post by Aggie Man


So I guess I am most likely not going to see "The Pussycat Lounge" advertised as the ground zero gentlemen's club anytime soon am I?

Originally posted by NashvilleCat
That's the first I've heard of a mosque having been in building 6.

Thanks for bringing that out.

I had not known about it earlier myself but now that I do, it begs a certain question. I am willing to believe that many people have no idea considering how few people seem to be aware of the "mosque" we have now in the Pentagon that seems to go quietly uncontested. I am willing to believe this will be news to a lot of folks but once they know it, the question is this.

Who are you (you in general to the people protesting the community center, not you as in you the specific poster I am replying to) against? All Muslims or just extremists? Because if the answer is just extremists, then I need to understand why regular Muslims should not be allowed to rebuild, even two blocks away.

Dude, read the original article from the NY Post link in your source. NY Times original article

It says that there was a Muslim Prayer Room, not a mosque.

That's a big difference, because a prayer room is usually set-up in any office building for Muslims (and I would assume any person of an Orthodox religon) to have a private place to say thier daily prayers in accordance with their religon. It is not a place for religous ceremonies or rites to take place.

reply to post by evil incarnate


Again, there is a big difference between a "prayer room" and a "mosque".

Second line here

Originally posted by indianajoe77
Dude, read the original article from the NY Post link in your source. NY Times original article

It says that there was a Muslim Prayer Room, not a mosque.

That's a big difference, because a prayer room is usually set-up in any office building for Muslims (and I would assume any person of an Orthodox religon) to have a private place to say thier daily prayers in accordance with their religon. It is not a place for religous ceremonies or rites to take place.

Dude educate yourself on what Park 51 actually is. It is a community center that will also have

drum roll please

A prayer room. Park 51 is no more a Mosque than building 6 was. You title your thread the way you want, I will go with mine.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

Again, there is a big difference between a "prayer room" and a "mosque".

Second line here

Again, BINGO! Thanks for playing along. We have some nice parting gifts for you.

I almost left this thread and something stopped me. OK I'll bite, what's the difference between a prayer room and a Mosque and I assume you are not going to say well a Mosque is the same but it's bigger.




I believe it's been said, "Wherever you go, there am I" (meaning God)

reply to post by evil incarnate


The wiki article even says there was a mosque planned initially:

The official website for the facility had said it would include "a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community".[97] By September 2010, the word mosque had been replaced with "prayer space".[8] In an interview in July 2010, lead developer of the project Sharif el-Gamal had supported the inclusion of a mosque as needed by the New York Muslim community.[98]

Source

Originally posted by damwel
I almost left this thread and something stopped me. OK I'll bite, what's the difference between a prayer room and a Mosque and I assume you are not going to say well a Mosque is the same but it's bigger.

edit on Tue September 14th, 2010 by damwel because: to add biblical quote

I believe it's been said, "Wherever you go, there am I" (meaning God)

edit on Tue September 14th, 2010 by damwel because: (no reason given)

The "prayer room" at Park 51 will accommodate Christians, Jews, and Muslims. The "prayer room" in building 6 was specifically for Muslim use. I guess we will have to look to Indy for that answer.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

The wiki article even says there was a mosque planned initially:

Uh huh, and?



Where is this going?

The wiki article even says there was a mosque planned initially:

See what I did there?

reply to post by damwel


A Prayer Room is like a chapel, non denominational. Even Wiki redirects to Chapel. Source

A Mosque is a place of worship for followers of Islam, according to wiki. Source

Its like the difference between a chapel in a hospital (non denominational) and St. Peter's Basillica (Roman Catholic).

reply to post by evil incarnate


And if you read further, it says they changed the language from "mosque" to "prayer room" in September, 2010 due to the controversy.

All I'm saying is their is a difference between a prayer room/chapel space and a mosque/church.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

And if you read further, it says they changed the language from "mosque" to "prayer room" in September, 2010 due to the controversy.

All I'm saying is their is a difference between a prayer room/chapel space and a mosque/church.

If you read further you will see that this room will be used by Christians and Jewish people alike. That hardly sounds like a Mosque to me. How does it fit the definition that you just posted?

All I am saying is there is a difference between a Mosque and a multi-faith prayer facility.

reply to post by evil incarnate


I love this conversation, and I hope their is no malice between us.

Can we agree that:
1. Originally the WTC had a prayer room.
2. Park51 plans originally included plans for a mosque.
3. The Park51 plans were changed from including a mosque to including a multi-religious prayer room.
4. There is a difference between a "Mosque" and a "prayer room".

Semantics, dammit, lol.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

I love this conversation, and I hope their is no malice between us.

Can we agree that:
1. Originally the WTC had a prayer room.
2. Park51 plans originally included plans for a mosque.
3. The Park51 plans were changed from including a mosque to including a multi-religious prayer room.
4. There is a difference between a "Mosque" and a "prayer room".

Semantics, dammit, lol.

I would hope no malice in any threads and if anything I say is taken that way, tell yourself your favorite joke and read it again. I love a heated debate but I do not get angry about it so I hope that works both ways.

I do agree with everything you posted. I have no qualms with that. My issue I guess is that I do not care what was originally planned. I see what is. I see people protesting what is, not what was going to be. I also see people mixing up words on purpose. Whether or not Park 51 were to contain a mosque, it would still be a community center and not a mosque itself. Do we agree on that? It is 2 and a half blocks from ground zero so it is not actually on ground zero. Can we agree on that? If so, you must agree that calling it the ground zero mosque would be a bit of a misnomer whether it contained a mosque or a prayer room. That is my issue. Now the reality is that it will contain a multi faith "chapel" inside a community center two blocks from ground zero. It is being called the ground zero mosque though. That puzzles me. Building 6 was never called a mosque and I have to wonder if it contained a full fledged mosque, would building 6 still have ever been referred to as a mosque itself? I hope you see where I am going.

I totally agree it is all about semantics and I think that is petty. That is why I (just as accurately) chose the words that I did. Playing with semantics can really alter a view, don't you think?

reply to post by evil incarnate


Aboslutely the semantics make a difference. And it is being played up by opponents, those who think shout "Mosque!" loud enough and everyone will tremble in fear.

But on the other side, I do not think that the supporters have done a good enough job of saying that "you know, we originally planned a mosque, yes, but we decided a multi-faith chapel inside of the community center would be better for the community overall." Now, they may be doing that and its just not breaking through the MSM.

I only took issue with the whole "mosque"/prayer room" issue, only because I think that a prayer room is a reasonable accomodation in most cases for religous people to practice their faiths in daily life, and should be the default solution with ther is a conflict between an employer and employee. Whereas in the same senario, I think forcing a company to include a mosque (or church or synogogue) would be an unreasonable accomodation.

And no, I didn't detect malice in your comments. I was more concerned that I was being percieved that way. I could care less what's built as long as the funding is made public (I'd like to see that for all tax exempt religous organizations, by the way).

reply to post by indianajoe77


I do not disagree with one thing you said. I hope you can see that and see the spirit in which I chose the words that I did. I feel it is a shame the way this portrayed in the news but I am not really sure how hard they are trying to put out the good word. Like you, I agree that it is a good accommodation to include a prayer room for Muslims but not something that should be required of any organization at all.
I think it was nice that there was one in building 6 and I think it is a shame that Americans, that happen to be Muslims, lost a prayer room due to terrorist attacks from foreign bodies.
On the other hand, I think it is great that a Muslim is building a community center with so many good things in it

outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
a 500-seat auditorium
a restaurant and culinary school
cultural amenities including exhibitions
education programs
a library, reading room and art studios
childcare services
a prayer space, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all

for the entire community including Christians, Jews, and any other New Yorker that would like to take advantage.

I do not see any Americans crying for the Muslims that lost their prayer facility in building 6 but I see plenty willing to deny Christians and Jews a place of worship just to stop Muslims from having one too. Maybe with some time, the conversation will change. I just found it interesting how very different the story is when you fiddle with semantics without stretching the truth any farther than it already has been.

Here is what I found on the Definition of "Mosque"

mosque (mäsk)

noun

a Muslim temple or place of worship
Origin: Early ModE muskey < MFr mosquez < It moschea, ult. < Ar masjid, place of adoration, temple < sajada, to prostrate oneself, pray
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

mosque (mŏsk)

noun
A Muslim house of worship.
Origin: French mosquée, from Old French mousquaie, from Old Italian moschea, from moscheta, from Old Spanish mezquita, from Arabic masjid; see masjid .
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved

www.yourdictionary.com...

I hope this helps

Peace