Forbidden History: The distraction of racism and the great American lie

reply to post by airspoon



I have mentioned the Hegelian Dialectic on several occasions here on ATS.

Essentially what it boils down to is dividing the populace for whatever reason, as in this case by color and controlling/manipulating both sides against one another.

Looking back at History though, I don't feel that the slaves received as fair a deal as apparently promoted in this thread.

Ask any Black American who has attempted to trace his genealogy beyond the shores of America.

This comes to mind after watching the TV Program "Who Am I " where NFL Football legend, Emmett Smith traced his heritage back to Alabama and Florida but could go no further due to records being non existent for Slaves.

Everyone else on the program who weren't of Afircan American/Slave descent could trace their genealogy back to Europe such as Brook Shields , who's genealogy records were traced all the way back to the middle ages.

Also, in respects to the Post WWII era and the Civil Rights movement. I don't feel that there would have been such an exhaustive effort towards equality or the entire struggle of "Civil Rights Movement" if things were so Hunky Dory and "Separate but Equal" as the term commonly used by the pro segregationalists at the time.

Negroes, as they were called back then;, were not allowed to eat at restaurants with other Americans, or stay overnight at a Motel for example. Negros could buy the food from a restaurant but had to order and take delivery at the back door of the restaurant.
High School wasn't an option, non whites (Negroes, Mexicans and Indians) only received an 8th grade education.

It would be all too easy for me to lean back in my comfy leather chair in my office and my nice high speed computer and monitor with high speed internet connection, in my lily white community, and simply dismiss the magnitude of the civil rights movement.

But being a major advocate for TRUTH, and the Constitutional equality promised to ALL Americans, White, Black, Yellow and Red, I really don't feel that they would've gone to all of that bother if things were as fair and equal as we are told OR if it wasn't worth all of their incurred sacrifices during their epic struggle for equality.

I think we need to look at why segregation happened.
After the war to punish the south, their land was taken away and given to the blacks leaving the southern whites homeless and penniless. Instead turning their anger at those in the north, their anger was turned on those who now occupied their homes and was enjoying their wealth and possessions. This was where "Hatred racism" came in, when before the only form of racism was just the "Your not as good as us type"

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by lee anoma

 

Prove what you just said please.
Don't ignore this. PROVE IT.

Unfortunately, it is considered racist for the media to even hint at such stories, or at the very least, it isn't politically correct, however if you want proof, just look the laws in your area or for your state. I think there may be only a handful of states that don't force racial discrimination.

Again you play the White Race Card, this time to hide the fact that your quote about thousands of Whites losing jobs to Blacks was made up.

It seems rather obvious considering the imbalanced unemployment numbers that Affirmative Action is ineffective.

Originally posted by airspoon

Yet unemployment amongst Blacks are over TWICE that of Whites?

I highly doubt that is due to racism and most certainly is due to factors outside of racial or Affirmative Action issues.

I never said it was, but how would you know? You simply rule that fact out all together?

It's starting to look like the "last hired, first fired" expression seems to have some weight.

If race isn't an issue, and Affirmative Action is dropping jobs in the lap of Blacks at the expense of equally trained Whites by the thousands, how the hell do you explain the glaring disparities in the numbers from Bureau of Labor Statistics and other credible sources?

College education doesn't even matter.

Unemployment And African-American Men

While times are tough for many Americans, the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows increasing disparities between black and white unemployment. More than a third of young black men are unemployed, and a college education doesn't necessarily make candidates less vulnerable. NPR

Nearly Half of Black Men Found Jobless
By JANNY SCOTT
Published: February 28, 2004

It is well known that the unemployment rate in New York City rose sharply during the recent recession. It is also understood that the increase was worse for men than for women, and especially bad for black men. But a new study examining trends in joblessness in the city since 2000 suggests that by 2003, nearly one of every two black men between 16 and 64 was not working. NYTimes

Black Teenage Males Crushed By Unemployment

by Sam Sanders

January 10, 2010

More than half of black males between the ages of 16 and 19 are unemployed, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. And that's only counting those seeking work. Economists say legions of other young black men — nobody knows how many — have given up looking.
NPR

Where are those jobs?

My point was simply that if Affirmative Action is such a driving force that it is getting jobs for Blacks over Whites by the thousands...why are so many Blacks disproportionately unemployed?

That statement you made is flat out disingenuous, and racially alarmist.

You can point out one case with Fireman, but when you look at the overall picture this becomes quite clear.

Look, I have nothing to gain things being as they are and arguably, nobody does not even blacks, as this discrimination only seperates us further (the premise of the OP). I wish I was wrong, but I'm not. That is the reality.

You could have just as much to gain as any of the people who usually spread this sort of racially divisive rhetoric around. I've heard it before. Most notably in place like Stormfront.

You say you aren't wrong, yet you don't have the facts to back up your claims and it seems mostly based on your own personal opinion.

Sadly, we don't hear about it because to even mention it is considered racist and most likely due to our indoctrination, as is evident by some of the replies in this thread alone.

This is a cop-out.
Because you have no facts you simply blame the media and the rest of the world.

It's just how things are and unless you have lost a job, promotion, acceptance into a school, own your own business or are a lawyer specializing in this type of law...

I wish you'd just address my points, but oh well.
I'm going to go walk the dog.

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma

Again you play the White Race Card, this time to hide the fact that your quote about thousands of Whites losing jobs to Blacks was made up.

Lol, it wasn't "made up", instead it was an extremely [++] conservative estimate, given that no numbers are actually recorded or compiled. The fact is, in most cases it is illegal to hire a white over a black, unless certain unlikely conditions are met. Same thing for promotions. I really don't see how anyone can think otherwise. Discrimination is discrimination and to base either employment opportunity or promotions on the color of one's skin is not only racist, but discriminatory.

So, either white people are being discriminated against (due to the law) or every company is breaking the law, which is highly unlikely.

It seems rather obvious considering the imbalanced unemployment numbers that Affirmative Action is ineffective.

Ineffective at what? Discrimination? Giving the black race an upper hand over the white race? As I said before, there is a myriad of reasons and environment variables that can lead to higher black unemployment numbers. The old saying comes to mind, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Education, motivation, social welfare, will power, crime, drugs, self employment, self segregation, prison, location and other factors could be and most likely are factors in deciding unemployment statistics by superficial demographics. Furthermore, the statistics on unemployment given or sanctioned by the government are designed to be low, which makes them extremely inaccurate. For instance, one count is strictly done by unemployment benefits. If your unemployment benefits run out or you don't qualify for unemployment, you aren't counted as unemployed. For this reason, I'm highly suspicious of so-called "unemployment statistics".

Regardless of how effective AA laws and policies are, they are still discriminatory, racist and more importantly, law. Just the notion that anyone would think they are ineffective, is sad. Ineffective at discriminating against whites or propping up a single race? I'm glad that any efforts to do such a thing are ineffective and it saddens my heart and disgusts my soul that other people aren't. I'm sure that the people who have been denied employment or promotions based on their skin color could care less how "effective" such racist policies are.

I never said it was, but how would you know? You simply rule that fact out all together?

I do because it is basic common sense. People start businesses to make money and provide services to the community in an effective manner. If a black person is more qualified or will make your business more money for whatever reason, you are most likely going to hire this black person, even if you are racist yourself. See bottom three paragraphs (after the three lines) for a real world example.

When someone starts a business, the general idea in that business is to make money. For this reason, people want to hire others based on experience, merit, work ethic, education, industry knowledge, etc. I highly doubt that anyone wouldn't hire a black person who embodied these traits simply because they are black. I highly doubt that any business savvy person would base their employment or leadership on the color of one's skin, without being forced to do it by law. It would be extremely foolish to think otherwise. You think [business] people care about race more than money or success? If black people have higher unemployment numbers, it is due to something other than racism, especially seeing how the law forces businesses to hire them if they want and are qualified for the job, irrespective of merit, work ethic, personal values or quality of the person.

If I go for a job and I think I'm qualified but I don't get the job, it would be real easy for me to blame it on racism, especially if that's what is being drilled into my head. The truth is, it happens to everyone and it is up to each individual to showcase their value to any perspective employer. It is also up to each individual to work hard and sacrifice for the qualifications that can land you a job. For instance the college you choose is all part of it. An employer is going to look more favorable on an MIT degree, than a community college degree. For one, it says that the applicant most likely worked very hard to get that degree and so is dedicated. Another thing could be professionalism, expertise, patience or all of the above, though it is up to each person to distinguish themselves. If you work hard, sacrifice much and are dedicated to improving your own situation, then that will go a long way to getting you hired, no matter which race you belong to. Racism is not a valid excuse.

Often, the excuse of racism allows people to have peace with themselves while placing blames for whatever "unfairness" they experience on others, instead of they themselves owning it. If a person doesn't get that job or promotion, it is far easier to blame someone else, than looking inward at yourself. This is especially true when you have been indoctrinated to believe this to be the case. Unfortunately, life isn't fair for almost everyone. When people cop out with the racism card, such as "I didn't get the job due to racism", they are only jipping themselves, as they won't look within to see how to improve their situation for next time so the same thing won't happen. They effectively hand over control to perceived outside influences. People who haven't been indoctrinated to believe any little thing done to them that is unfair is most likely due to racism, generally take each knock down as a learning experiences to make improvements for next time. They own the problem, thereby taking and keeping control in their own hands.

However, just as black people have been indoctrinated to believe that unfairness is racism, white people have been indoctrinated to believe the same for black people. For instance, while my mind was still under that brainwashing, I would often go out of my way to ensure that things seemed fair to black people, even when it would cause an even greater injustice to a white person. One example would be the time that I was on a float in a Mardi Gras parade. I had normal beads to throw and then good prizes like CDs, liquor, t-shirts and other like minded things. I felt that I would be seen as racist if I threw the nicer objects to anyone other than blacks. If I threw a t-shirt into the crowd and a white caught it, I felt that the blacks would think I was being racist, so I found myself deliberately throwing the nicer things directly to black people. I didn't even consider that this act alone was racist because that's not how my mind was brainwashed. It was like a subconscious effort. That's just one small case out of many and happens to almost everyone, where they find themselves subconsciously over-compensating when dealing with a black person, even at the expense of a white person, because we don't want to be racist.


Lets look at an impromptu case study of how money usually trumps personal biases. California and Texas prisons, where the inmates segregate themselves based on their races, though they still favor the all mighty "buck" to any hate doctrine. Whether you are racist before prison or you were raised in a mixed family doesn't really matter because you are not allowed to associate with other races in the prison system. You don't really have a choice, as you go with your race and fight for your race. If one black gets into a fight, all blacks have to jump in for that one black, regardless of whether you liked that person or not. Same thing goes for Mexicans, whites and Asians too. Even if you are a white person who hated white people before prison, you are still forced to only associate with your race and do the bidding on behalf of that race.

The crazy thing is, most of those people aren't even racist, though they are just doing what they have to do, living by the rules set before them. Are there racists among them? No doubt but I think that most people are simply following the "rules" and trying to make it out in one piece.

With all of that racism, whether superficial or not, the races still do business with each other and on issues of money, they work together when it is beneficial to them or profit. So, even with all of that hatred and grandstanding, money is still far more important.


--airspoon

The reason that Europe did not enter the war has to do with Russian Tsar Nicholas the 2nd sending his naval fleet to block Europe from intervention.

Russia has a history of being againt globalization.

Ironically, the south, while engaging in secession, was playing into the hands of the globalist elite.

The greendback was only partially successful and Lincoln had to borrow money from the banksters anyway at the "end" of the war.
He was assassinated due to his lack of support for a national bank after the war was complete, but that is for another thread.

You get a S & F for your research.
You are spot on when talking about racism in America and the history of the War of the Northern Agression. (I am from the south), but I will say that whites were generally racist against blacks throughtout history, but not due to color, but status.

As you pointed out a schism exists, blacks are generally of a lower class, so they are looked down upon, but the blacks in the upper class are simply people in the upper class, and they are just as ruthless as the rest of the bunch.

The only real "ism" that has ever existed is the us versus them ism.

Are you an Us or are you them.

And when you know...
What are you going to *DO* about it, because they have been *DOING* things in a coordinated effort for FN millenia.

We have the numbers there are a whole lot of us and a whole little of them.

Be a brain person and figure out how to beat the power people, 'cuz they already rigged the game in their favor.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by lee anoma

 

Again you play the White Race Card, this time to hide the fact that your quote about thousands of Whites losing jobs to Blacks was made up.

Lol, it wasn't "made up", instead it was an extremely [++] conservative estimate, given that no numbers are actually recorded or compiled.

So then you ARE making up numbers without any factual background.

You are pulling numbers out of the air and claiming they are valid just because you feel this is probably the case.
You have no evidence that it is.

If there are no studies to determine those numbers are even accurate how are you making a claim that they are or could be?

As I said before, the unemployment disparities between Blacks and their White counterparts destroy that claim all together.

The fact is, in most cases it is illegal to hire a white over a black, unless certain unlikely conditions are met.

Again, prove it.
Sounds like complete rubbish to me.

I've never heard of anyone getting arrested for hiring a Black over a White.

Clearly by the unemployment disparities among employable Black males, they are not being handed jobs simply because they "showed up".

This is like a lot of the hate language used by White supremacists to enrage the unemployed/lower class White population and pull them into their cause.

The numbers do not reflect what you claim and I think statements like the ones you are presenting as facts add to the problem you claim you are trying to solve.

In spite of what you claim here, segregation (and of course Slavery) was a major difficulty and provided nothing but hardships for Blacks in America, and their were quite a few people, Black and White, who lost their lives fighting for the civil rights of all American citizens.

No amount of absurd speculation, grand trivializations, and uninformed generalizations will change this fact.

- Lee

Originally posted by lee anoma

The fact is, in most cases it is illegal to hire a white over a black, unless certain unlikely conditions are met.

Again, prove it.
Sounds like complete rubbish to me.

I've never heard of anyone getting arrested for hiring a Black over a White.

I meant to say White over Black.

I think you are trying to point out the laws against discrimination but again, this doesn't say you must hire Blacks over Whites. It just says you cannot dismiss one candidate based on the superficial.

I know a former Black colleague who is an excellent Graphic Designer that left his job with us for a new opportunity.

It didn't pan out, and now he has been looking for work for over a year.
He's outright frustrated.

If you know any places that are hiring Blacks on sight, please pass the information along.

He's a very talented designer with over ten years experience, and a hard worker, so I am sure he'd be pleased to be given the help.

Thanks,

- Lee

reply to post by airspoon


Another major reason for the Civil War was the PTB's issues with the Anti-Freemasonry movement that began in 1826 and lasted till the War.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Also the Vatican, Pope, and Jesuits helped and supported the Confederacy due to its grudge of America being independent of Vatican/Illuminati (obviously, they finished taking control of the USA when the Federal Reserve was instituted).

www.reformation.org...

reply to post by cenpuppie


We were taught about Fredrick Douglas in grade school. I think being a slave would be a terrible thing, even under a kindly slave owner, and I think slavery is wrong.

Do you really think being a slave in Africa was fine and dandy? Clearly you prefer to keep your eyes closed on the issue of slavery in Africa.

Tribes in Africa are and were every bit as prejudiced against each other as tribes in Europe or Asia, or anywhere else, and just as capable of the same brutality.

They would literally cut the junk off of male slaves in Africa and sell them to the Arabs.

Slavery ended around the globe because when the Europeans colonized the world, they ended slavery, but they don't tell you that in the history books.

reply to post by lee anoma


The reason so many blacks are unemployed is because so many are simply not qualified for the jobs available. Blacks have a very high drop out rate and do not graduate from high school. They also have a high incarceration rate, which greatly reduces ones ability to get a decent job.

It is a complicated subject, so here are a basic points I will make.

Black males tend to have severe behavior problems in school, and by the time they reach their teens, they often intimidate their teachers, and completely ignore class room protocol. Now there could be many reasons for this, but I think the biggest is this belief that blacks deserve some form or reparation, and that they are poor because of the whites control everything. This creates a belief which sets in, "why try if I will never be given a decent chance". This is the biggest uphill battle I think blacks face when growing up.

The truth is that if you are black, you can succeed just as easily as most white people. Don't do anything illegal, go to school and graduate high school, and go on to college if you have the grades. If not, join the military, that was my route to modest success.

Personally, I think the ghettos were socially engineered. The whole belief system taught in schools that blacks have higher poverty rates because of discrimination, in my opinion, is part of that social engineering. The same people doing the social engineering are also doing the same thing to small town white communities across the U.S.. The enemies of the working class black man are also the enemies of he working class white man. The war on drugs is their biggest weapon.

A great many skilled people are now looking for work. One of the big problems is that employers are demanding ever and ever tighter conformity standards. They don't want people who speak their minds. They don't want independent thinkers, no matter how talented you are. This is the same problem with our school system. The problem they run into is that conformists are lousy innovators, and tend to be poor problem solvers. Which is why innovation has dried up so much over that last decade. Many blacks tend to be very good at innovation, but not so good at conformity. A great many working class whites suffer from the same problems. This is possibly the one of the biggest reasons for our economic swings, but that is another subject.

reply to post by witness63


I thought this was an excellent post, and I am surprised that it didn't get more stars.

Frederick Law Olmstead travelled all over the South in the 1850s and spoke with many of these small farmers and 'plain folk' who had no slaves. Later he wrote a book about it. Pretty much he found that they didn't like slavery or the big planters, and did not favor secession, but on the other hand they didn't think blacks should be freed and allowed to stay in the country as equal citizens. He found a lot of people who'd say things "Do you want them free to marry your daughter" but in the next sentence also say "it isn't right to keep them as slaves either." So they were racist, but not so racist that they thought blacks weren't human beings and should be kept as someone's property.

I think this is a good overall view most people, the world over, have, and tends to be the root of most prejudice.

The Confederate states were not all that united, since they also had many regions where white small farmers were the majority and they were not exactly enthusiastic to support the big planters. Lincoln's family in Kentucky were like that. These small family farmers were not all that different from those in the North, and the leaders of the Confederacy knew all along that they had a big problem with these regions, where Unionism was strong and support for secession was low.

The only point I would make is that Kentucky was not a Confederate state. Kentucky sided with the Union.

This is a fact about the Confederacy that our schools conveniently leave out. A great many people throughout the South did not support the Confederacy. A hidden point about the Civil war which points directly at a large part of the people who make up the PTB. In fact, if memory serves me right, more than half of the people in the South did not support the Confederacy. It wasn't a failed revolution, it was a failed hijacking of a large portion of the U.S. against the will of a majority of the people in the South.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by cenpuppie

 

We were taught about Fredrick Douglas in grade school. I think being a slave would be a terrible thing, even under a kindly slave owner, and I think slavery is wrong.

Do you really think being a slave in Africa was fine and dandy? Clearly you prefer to keep your eyes closed on the issue of slavery in Africa.

Tribes in Africa are and were every bit as prejudiced against each other as tribes in Europe or Asia, or anywhere else, and just as capable of the same brutality.

They would literally cut the junk off of male slaves in Africa and sell them to the Arabs.

Slavery ended around the globe because when the Europeans colonized the world, they ended slavery, but they don't tell you that in the history books.

Slavery ended because of a number of reasons.
1The military battles that were waged between escaped slaves and the slave owners became to costly to slave owner. Look at most of the black westindies andsouth america. Marrons fought the british french and Portuguese to a defeat. One group had nothing to loose!


Anyone that does not realise that developed contries really do not have much time for mass labourers is doomed tolow pay. Black americans and british have a tradition of a comfortable middle class. We all did not work in the CARWASH you know.

The biggest issue that you show is that you never seem to understand white supremacy andf what awas its role in slavery. To have someone say the racism is an irrelevance in the historical life of a country like the USA is at the very least deluded. At worst....

reply to post by tiger5


The British ended slavery voluntarily. The battles between slaves and slave owners took place in South American colonies not controlled by the British. Meanwhile Slavery continued to flourish in Africa, and especially the Middle East. Take off your blinders, and look at the big picture.

The U.S. and Britain have strong middle class societies, because they organized unions fought for labor rights.

You have completely mis-characterized my posts.

What the heck does this mean?

To have someone say the racism is an irrelevance in the historical life of a country like the USA is at the very least deluded.

First, I never made anything close to such an assertion.

Secondly, it is clear that you refuse to look at anything but the narrow role the U.S. has played in slavery, which is a clear reflection of your own bigotry. Slavery had a major influence in Africa before Europeans ever became involved, and apparently, this is something you would rather not face.

You have fallen into the trap that the Op is trying to expose.

Originally posted by tiger5
The biggest issue that you show is that you never seem to understand white supremacy andf what awas its role in slavery. To have someone say the racism is an irrelevance in the historical life of a country like the USA is at the very least deluded. At worst....

This is a good example of what the OP in this thread is speaking out against. All of a sudden denying the idea that Slavery was motivated by White Supremacy means you dismiss the idea of Racism as a social issue in the USA. You have been conditioned to believe that Slavery was a direct result of White Supremacy. This is a lie that has been taught by those in power to keep Black people angry and resentful of White people and instil White people with a sense of guilt and regret.