Muslims do NOT care if we burn the Koran! They care about THIS!

A little historical perspective.

The Persian empire lasted between 550 and 330BCE, before it was conquered by Alexander the Great. its not really relevant to modern times.

In the middle ages Christian Europe fought a holy war throught the middle east region between 1095 and 1291. Again, not particularly relevant to modern times.

Fast foward to the ages of colonial Europe, and you will see that, prior to the first world war, and into the second, Britain held sway over a lot of the middle east region.

At the end of the second world war, the state of Israel was created in 1947, gaining indepedance in 1948. This is where the modern problems start, because the Arab states did not agree to the partitioning of the country.

Flash forward to 1953, and the UK and USA conspired and overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran (look up Operation Ajax) for reasons to mainly do with oil.

The US then propped up the Shah of Iran - essentially making him a cold war proxy "puppet" who used his position of power to basically crush any and all political opposition, which is how Ayatollah Khomeni came to be sent into exile.

Khomeni returned to Iran and instigated the Iranian revolution, deposing the Shah, and seriously embarrassing the US in the process.

The US then turned to Saddam Hussein, and effectively propped him up as a power in the region to counter the revolution, providing arms and support during the Iran/Iraq war and in the ensuing years attacking Iranian oil rigs in the gulf. The Reagan administration also ignored Iraqi chemical weapons attacks on Iranian troops, something which caused huge resentment in Iran.

This was compounded by the USS Vincennse shot down Iran Air Flight 655, killing all 290 people on on board in 1988.

Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR in 1979 and the country soon became a proxy battleground for the Cold War, with the US supplying the Mujahideen to counter the Soviets, until they withdrew in 1989

Again the US Supported the Pakistani ISI in setting up the Taliban, which quickly became something of a monster that was uncontrollable, and responsible for thousands of deaths and the opression of anyone who did not agree with them. It was in this cauldron that Osama Bin Laden became prevalent fighting with the Taliban in the Afghan Civil War.

Iraq, meanwhile, got too big for its boots, starting with the gassing of the Kurds in 1988 and then in 1991 when it invaded Kuwait - although its possible Saddam Hussein thought he had US diplomatic approval for his initial actions. Hussein became a liability and - although he was eventually defeated, remained in power. The Saudi's decision to give the coalition forces basing rights to fight the Iraqi's angered Bin Laden, who saw the action as foreign powers occupying what he decreed to be holy land. Bin Laden is ostensibly responsible for ordering the attack on the USS Cole in 2000

Now, fast forward to Sept 11th 2001, and the events of that day when a group of mainly Saudi Arabians carried out the terror attacks.

In response the US invaded Afghanistan - ostensibly to find Bin Laden, and then later turned their attention to Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Thats the actual history.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Why don't you just move over seas and live with the people whom you love and want to protect so badly! That way they can convert you and use you as recruitment tool? Oh wait seems like your already doing that just fine. Just wondering how much where getting paid?

I read a few pages and well, had had enough..

Just keep on fighting! Go on keep doing it. Muslim this, bombing that... yadda yadda yadda..

'They're' still going to to the bank people...

This is exactly what the neo-cons wanted. To create an enemy to create a cohesive society. To give them an enemy image. All be it a false one.

Just keep fighting with each other about false enemies.

Muslims/Americans need to unite a realise our true common enemy is not each other but the people ordering the wars and creating false enemies.

If you don't know what I'm talking about then you need to WAKE THE F*** UP!!!

So, back in the day when we were neither "bombing cities and killing innocent civilians" or burning the 'Koran', why were they still hellbent on blowing up our skyscrapers?

Face it, many are taught to hate us. Many of the 'clerics', Imams, priests or whatever you want to call them are simply agents of Western hate. There's a reason why guys like Osama never blow themselves up. They just brainwash others into doing it. It's not the civilians that are necessarily evil. The religious establishment is evil at its core, and they are brainwashing the civilians into taking their own lives to kill Westerners like a pitbull trained to fight to the death. The establishment of Islam is the problem - those at high levels within the religious establishment and the government (which are two heads of the same beast). They're what needs to be stopped.

Originally posted by Trying Times
I read a few pages and well, had had enough....

...Muslims/Americans need to unite a realise our true common enemy is not each other but the people ordering the wars and creating false enemies.

If you don't know what I'm talking about then you need to WAKE THE F*** UP!!!

War is the Modern American Way, ufortunately. I swore off war as a concept back at the end of Viet Nam.

You know, I thought after that fiasco we'd never be sold a "bill of goods" likr that again. I was soooo wrong.

New generations never learn from history, and thie current crop are as "compliant" as any has ever been. War resolves nothing.

War is good for rich industrialists and bankers, and no one else. Nothing will ever change. There will always be a fresh crop of ignorant flunkies available to "go make your country proud" and die at 19 years of age for no damned good reason.

reply to post by RizeorDie


you said it. I watch Al Jazeera all the time. It's one of the most non biased news organizations on the planet, and you don't get all the "who's bonking who" celebrity crap that you get in Western Media.

Russia Today is pretty good, too, as is BBC World Service.

Except most of the killing is Muslim on Muslim.

Muslim aggression also flows into Africa, Asia, Europe, India, and they hope to soon bring it to the U.S..

They kill because it is their religion.

A real Muslim could not care less if you burn a Koran. After all the burn who burns it, has to be responsible for it in front of Allah only

They do care.

But its funny , before september 11 , this was never an issue

we all better look at facts and understand . Its all like a movie people . In the 1980s 1970s 1960s 1950s 1940s- and so on ....They have never been our friend....but....I still find it hard to think they used box cutters ....its just to strange people ...look at what took place...its just strange ...everything changed on 911, and yet we think there the bad guys ...wake up people ....i do not think THERE the reason 911

Actually, I'm pretty sure they DO care about us burning Qurans.

Originally posted by Mobius1974
Muzzle I normally respect your opinion and thoughts.. I have lost a lot of respect for you!!! You are better than this...

You know, I don't care lol.

I don't exist to cater to people so they will "respect me". I don't care if you hate me. That's you own ignorant choice.

I won't disrespect you over some silly post though.

Anyways, if the honest to god truth is going to cost me all the respect in the world, so be it.

I would rather be truthful and honest and have everyone hate me for it, than to lie and spread pro-death hate in order to gain your "respect".

And for all of you sending me private messages telling me I'm spreading propaganda? Get real. There is no media outlet that pushes the truth. They are all trying to incite even more war. And those of you who love death, I hope you don't have to taste your own medicine one day, cuz it's gonna suck real bad.

I am not spreading propaganda, and I'm not getting paid at all. I am speaking out on my opinion and assessment about pointless wars that are destroying and ruining my nation.

Propaganda is created by the government or other massive organizations in order to brainwash people into doing crazy things. I am actually trying to combat that propaganda.

You know the lies created by the military industrial complex in order to promote further death and war? That's what propaganda is.

But whatever, hate me all you want. It doesn't affect me at all. I don't care. I don't exist to be popular. I exist to speak out about what I see as the basic truth. So hate away, haters.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. — Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

And pro-murder is not the truth. It is the lie.
The truth is pro-love and pro-forgiveness. Peace and justice are truth.
War is based on the lies.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Excuse me... Give yourself a reach around and pull your head out of your arse.. I did NOT U2U you... Know what you say and say what you know..

Answer my point.. your posts says they dont care.. I proved that they do.. Answer that instead of making things up.

I wasn't asking for your aproval on my respect lost.. Why do you feel such a need to address this? Boy does your character have holes... wow... I would say that you are basicly a long winded troll... But you wouldn't care.. Your above caring what other people think... You my friend are a truth seeker... dundundundun SuperFlash to rescue humanity from ignorance and lies..

And pro-murder is not the truth. It is the lie.
The truth is pro-love and pro-forgiveness. Peace and justice are truth.
War is based on the lies.

What is this crap?? Is this your failed attempt at thoughful depth?
Truth is pro love----- Cant the truth just be honesty? Peace and justice are truth?? Always? no flaws.. Such a silly dilusional "hey look at me " comment.
War is based on lies--- really? always? how ignorant!!


Wow .. get over yourself and answer to the FACT that your Headline is dead wrong and ignorant.. as many posters have proven.

Yes that is what the "good" muslims care about.. On the other side are the"bad people" who just want anything not Islam dead, dead, dead

Anyone who thinks we're over there to "liberate" anyone is a moron...
...i don't care where you served, or how many badges, stripes, medals or redeemable coupons you've earned.

War (and occupation) is about acquisition of territory and resources in order to maintain and expand government power. Period.

The US is largely responsible for the funding of groups like the Taliban (see Operation Cyclone) and many are probably still controlled by the CIA to this day.

Look how unprofessional those kids were in that first clip.
These are the ambassadors of freedom? Ha.

War is ignorance, greed and deception.
Humans will never outgrow their childish, selfish ways.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


Derek I am asking out of complete ignorance...

What land and or resources have we gained from Iraq or Afghanistan? Please be specific.

What land and or resources have we gained from Iraq or Afghanistan?

reply to post by Mobius1974


Anywhere troops, bases or equipment is... that is the land area we have currently acquired and/or utilized.

In other words.. we're still there, aren't we?

reply to post by Mobius1974


Billions of dollar revenue for military contracts to keep the economy going and enrich a few on top? New oil contracts in Iraq? the pipeline which gets finally build via Afghanistan from central Asia to Pakistan? the zillion tons of rare mineral deposits found in Afghanistan? Encircling Iran with Allies now?

Read ATS (TONS of threads about it) or just google it, or do I really need to put references?

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


Ok .. so to sumarize... The specific piece of land that are base is on... Is the land that we were after... Hmm interesting.. I did not know that.. I was assuming when you said land or resources .. I though you meant , we were out to aquire land and take their resources..

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Excuse me... Give yourself a reach around and pull your head out of your arse.. I did NOT U2U you... Know what you say and say what you know..

I said "TO THE PEOPLE THAT U2U'd ME"

You need to stop thinking you are the center of the Universe fool.

Other people U2U'd me griping at me. Not you. Christ!

And you replied to me within 7minutes? What are you just sitting here patiently awaiting any reply to argue with?

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

 

Derek I am asking out of complete ignorance...

What land and or resources have we gained from Iraq or Afghanistan? Please be specific.

Let's see here. Try the lands of Iraq or Afghanistan?

It's so obvious it is right under your nose!! You have gotta be kidding me. You are just being silly at this point.

Originally posted by nagabonar
reply to post by Mobius1974

 

Billions of dollar revenue for military contracts to keep the economy going and enrich a few on top? New oil contracts in Iraq? the pipeline which gets finally build via Afghanistan from central Asia to Pakistan? the zillion tons of rare mineral deposits found in Afghanistan? Encircling Iran with Allies now?

Read ATS (TONS of threads about it) or just google it, or do I really need to put references?

Connect the dots for me... So we used our engineers to find the deposits... How much of those deposits have we aquired?

Check your sources... We have less (american companies) than before the war started..

LMFAO.. do you research anything? Tell me how the USA benefits from ONE single portion of what you typed..

Be specific.. How exactly does America benefit from the pipeline? Be specific.. I already know the answers to these questions.. So, how about you tell me.. Because you know absolutely ZERO about what you are talking...

Another example..of scrolling through forums and picking up information in chunks and bits ...then mashing them into a very poorly constructed conspiracy..