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Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Such a debate might be profitable if anyone could gain anything from it.
How can the finite mind comprehend the Infinite.
Example, space there is no end, go straight out in any direction for eternity and there is no end, there is no wall to run into and if there was what's on the other side.
But creation is seen also endlessly, no end. It is not emptiness out there.
All we can do is marvel. You want me to bring God into this, I see no use, I don't rail and throw darts at people who won't agree there is a Great God Who proclaims He is Spirit.
I might ask a question, what is life? They can't create it even from scratch.
They also must come up with the scatch. Neither can and will happen, if it did we all better run cause it probably would eat them and start on us.
Anyway nuff said.
Truth is the only way to go.
Well, I'd hope to gain a lot from it.
How can a 5 mb file contain the plans for a 1 tb harddrive?
13.75 billion light years across...so if you go about 10 billion light years in any direction you'll probably just run out of space.
Well, it's mostly emptiness.
Yes, but you keep making a claim that such a being exists and must be subject to different capitalization rules, yet you have no proof for this claim.
And in the search for truth you seem to wish to stay locked in your personal ignorance and leave it unchallenged.
Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I know you weren't responding to me...but I'm going to chime in anyway because you have abandoned your other thread apparently. So I'll join you in here.
What exactly would you as an atheists be hoping to gain from it...unless you are saying you are hoping to be convinced to believe in god...which I doubt.
Because they are both FINITE...and the size of the file would be dependent on the size of the harddrive. How big would the file have to be for a 2 TB HD? 10 TB? 100 TB? 1000 TB? How big would it have to be for a harddrive with infinite space?
It's a poor analogy because the original question was about the FINITE understanding the INFINITE...and you gave an example of two FINITE things.
He didn't ask how can something smaller understand something bigger...he asked about FINITE and INFINITE. There is a very large difference in the concepts.
I'm a bit rusty on my astronomy...but I do believe scientist think that it is still expanding...or stretching. So how do you "run out of space" while it is continuing to expand? Also this is assuming that we currently hold a complete and accurate understanding of the universe...which I doubt we do. But by current scientific understanding...you seem to be going against it.
Would you like to defing "emptiness"???
Because I'm pretty sure except for a few pockets of black holes...there are photons almost everywhere.
From what I've seen in this thread...he never did such a thing. Unless you are speaking of a different conversation...you are just putting words in his mouth.
Originally posted by truthiron
You want me to bring God into this, I see no use, I don't rail and throw darts at people who won't agree there is a Great God Who proclaims He is Spirit.
And you end with an insult...how fitting.
You are making some rather EXTRAORDINARY claims so far (space is empty, the infinite can be understood, you'll "run out of space" if you go to far)...and with little to no proof. Seems odd for an atheist to do.
"I am the Lord your God" "I am the Lord your God/You shall have no other gods before me" or "I am the Lord your God/You shall have no other gods before me/You shall not make for yourself an idol"
Not everyone has the appropriate amount of time to tend all of their threads. I do have a life outside of my room that is currently quite hectic.
At the very least? I'd hope to gain a bit of insight and understanding into the mind of a person with a different opinion.
And as I've stated repeatedly: I am open to the prospect of the existence of a deity if provided with adequate evidence
5mb file could make a 2 - 1000 TB hardrive. In fact it could theoretically make a 2 - XXXXXX TB drive just as easily as the basic schematic wouldn't change, merely the parts.
Well, the infinite doesn't seem to exist. It's a pure concept. I can't really see any proof of the infinite being real. However, a 1 TB hardrive is many magnitudes greater than the 5 mb file. A 5 TB harddrive has a million times more data storage capacity. The same size file could be used to create any size of drive so long as the materials were appropriate to increase storage space.
Here's a different point: Why must we understand the whole thing? I mean, shouldn't we be able to understand a portion of the infinite through discovery? Just a little bit, a fleck of truth from it? At the very least we should be able to establish its existence, shouldn't we?
Of course I am, I posited travelling 10 billion light years in a human lifetime. A more accurate analogy would be found here where it basically describes the universe as a balloon. It keeps getting inflated, but you can still travel on it. If you were to keep travelling faster than the rate of inflation you'd eventually run out of room and end up where you began.
Lack of stuff.
A black hole is the exact opposite of emptiness. It's a place where there is so much matter that nothing can escape due to the gravitational pull from this matter.
A photon is indescribably (without the aid of mathematics) small. The spaces between those photons out in deep space would probably be quite vast. Remember, space is massive and photons are small. There are bound to be pockets of varying sizes of empty space.
That seems like as good of an affirmation of a deity as any. If someone states others won't agree on something it's pretty concrete that the person believes it themselves.
I'm not insulting, I'm pointing out that those who actively avoid discourse are shutting themselves from truth. If you stay away from other opinions how do you know they're false?
Already showed you that they aren't extraordinary.
Anyway, if my claims are so extraordinary and you seem so confident in your abilities to refute anything and everything I say, why don't you engage me in a formal debate on a topic of your choosing (obviously I can make reasonable objections, I won't agree that wanton destruction for fun's sake is a good thing in a debate)?
Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Well then maybe it isn't rational to start so many threads if you do not have the time to do all the things you are doing.
It doesn't come off that way...you push too hard to try to prove your stance or disprove others to make it seem like you are open to anything else.
Well clearly I don't think you have an understanding of what you are talking about...maybe you aren't being clear in your explanation.
What I thought you were talking about is a 5mb file containing the memory location mapping ( "the plan") for the hard drive...is this not what you are talking about?
But now I think you are talking about the 5mb file holding the manufacturing instructions for a hard drive...which still I don't agree with your claim. The larger the hard drive...the more complex it will need to be...and "plans" for a working hard drive would still need the memory mapping included for it to function. So as you increase the size...the "plan" would still become more complex.
And since you can't map to infinity...now finite size file would be able to hold the "plan" for an infinite hard drive.
Who says we don't? But would you recognize the "whole" by only knowing a "part"???
If someone who knows nothing of cars is shown in detail a spark plug and how it works by itself...do they now understand a full functioning car? If they see a car...would they even recognize it as being the "whole" of the spark plug? If that same person is shown a windshield wiper...would they connect it to the spark plug?
You seem that you aren't satisfied with not knowing it "all"...and if you can't know it "all"...then it must not exist. I don't have that thought process.
Well now you are changing your position...first you said you would "run out of space"...and now you are saying you would end up where you began. Those are two very different concepts.
Besides...your own article reference says the Universe is "probably" infinite....because they don't know...which is why they say "probably". So why do you pretend to "know" the Universe is finite???
Can you at least state that much...that you really don't know if the Universe is finite?
I think you misunderstood my reference to a black hole...it had to do with photons...not matter.
In the area of a black hole...there are no visible photons.
So you are suggesting that the amount of photons is small in space? So we shouldn't be able to see in space...since our eyes or even cameras are just photon detectors...right?
I disagree...light...or photons...is everywhere. We see photons from distant stars everynight...enough photons for everyone to see them...they are literally everywhere...and in large quantities.
To be truly empty wouldn't there have to be the absense of everything...even photons?
There is a difference in believing it and claiming it as fact.
We are both actively discussing it...you just don't approve with they way we see things...so you don't believe we are actively seeking knowledge.
You are correct in that I am just questioning your arguments...so why don't you pick the topic. I have made no claims that I am desperately seeking approval of...so there is no topic that I would choose to debate myself. But if you bring up a good topic...I would consider it.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Historians and Linguists have already discovered the world spoke a single language that originated in Mesopotamia.
What's the next excuse?