Humor me!Atheist/Agnostic,what would you do if the Rapture really happened and YOU were left behind?

reply to post by adjensen


Hey, adjensen, did you try reading the English Paraphrase? Much easier. And I don't think that God is an elitist, I think that men over the ages have screwed with the word of God and changed or mistranslated a few key things. Maybe a lot more than a few. Do you think that's possible? Do you believe that the words you read now are exactly the way they have always been, right from the original? I sure don't.
I think that you assume that this new translation is just for certain people, maybe because it is such a new concept. Everything is a new concept in the beginning. Take some time to read and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. You'll soon know whether or not this is meant for you. Some things were meant to be hidden for a time, weren't they? So how will you know when those things are revealed?

There is an exceptionally small number that will be "taken" to heaven before their a natural death during what the bible calls the Great Tribulation. So when it happens people will already know if they are doomed or saved by that point.
To me this is like asking the guy on the outside of the Ark in Noah's day what he is going to do when he is knee deep in water? I think it is a rhetorical question.

Typical response "!@#* & *#@! those !@#* were right, I'm screwed!"

It's interesting that in the bible it states that God will bring the end in way that nobody doubts anymore, everybody is going to know, regardless of belief structure, he wants people to know HE is finally taking action.

I think it's funny that in the end there will be no atheists only those that oppose God's sovereignty over this earth.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Yeah, I think you are exactly right. God has no intention of people having to go "Hmmmm, could this be The God doing this or just a coincidence?". There will be no more guessing at that point, and no more time to change your mind.

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by adjensen

 

Hey, adjensen, did you try reading the English Paraphrase? Much easier.

Yeah, the English version is slightly more readable, but seems to say that lying is okay if you think you can get away with it. I'm not sure that's the foundation of a solid morality :-)

And I don't think that God is an elitist, I think that men over the ages have screwed with the word of God and changed or mistranslated a few key things. Maybe a lot more than a few. Do you think that's possible? Do you believe that the words you read now are exactly the way they have always been, right from the original? I sure don't.

Nope, but here's the thing... do you think that the words that are not the same substantially change the nature of the faith? Christianity is crazy simple -- love God, love everyone else, accept Christ's gift of salvation. If things have changed over the years that make Catholics think Mary was assumed into Heaven or Methodists think that drinking wine is bad, meh, doesn't really impact the message.

On the other hand, if the "hidden wisdom" radically changes the faith, such as the Gnostic teachings, or a retranslation of the Bible that turns "Thou shalt not bear false witness" on its ear, no, I find that highly unlikely to be accurate.

Some things were meant to be hidden for a time, weren't they? So how will you know when those things are revealed?

I'm not so sure about this, because it implies that those from whom it was hidden missed out on something. Take the Mormons, for example. They believed that the church fell into a state of apostasy after the death of John, and remained so until Joseph Smith found his plates in the 1800s and restored the priesthood on Earth. What about all those poor slobs that lived in the interim? Why would God let his plan get derailed so soon after Jesus' sacrifice, and not get back to it until Smith came around?

Christianity is for all. It is not reserved for the clever, or the wealthy, or even for the wise. It is the same salvation for the illiterate peasant in 500AD, the Pope in 1400AD, Joseph Smith in 1860, and you and I today. To believe otherwise is to assume something about God that is inherently wrong.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
There is an exceptionally small number that will be "taken" to heaven before their a natural death during what the bible calls the Great Tribulation. So when it happens people will already know if they are doomed or saved by that point.
To me this is like asking the guy on the outside of the Ark in Noah's day what he is going to do when he is knee deep in water? I think it is a rhetorical question.

I believe that you are mistaken in this. The 144,000 that John speaks of in Revelation are Jewish witnesses whose job it is to spread the Gospel on Earth. It seems unlikely that they would do so merely to say "I told you so, enjoy damnation!" so people must still be able to accept Christ during the time of tribulation. It would be very difficult, requiring much more sacrifice than it would now, as you'd most likely be killed for professing Christ, but I think you'd still be able to do it.

reply to post by adjensen


Salvation itself is still just that simple. But salvation is just the beginning. Once you are of the household of God, you are supposed to move on to a real relationship with Yahweh, our Father. The way the bible has been changed over time keeps us from understanding who He is. We are given stories that have been subtly altered to make Yahweh seem to be a cruel, bloodthirsty warlord. I think that was the point, too. Just read a post or two from some of these folks on ATS. They have bought into those alterations full-force. It drives them away from what is the true love of Yahweh. I think it is a HUGE disgrace. But then, I have moved past just receiving salvation to wanting to a real, personal relationship with Yahweh. This new translation reveals Him to me in a way never possible before, and I think it is awesome. It makes Him very real and understandable.
As far as things being hidden, He said that He would shut their eyes, ears and harden their hearts to truth, because they don't love truth. He never said that He would hide the truth of Jesus, and He didn't. But the wisdom that comes with knowing the true God, that is harder to find. That is done so that you can prove your heart for Yahweh by seeking Him out. The SDH just reveals a little more of His true nature.

I just cannot see where you get that this translation radically changes faith. It doesn't radically change the way I believe in my God, it makes Him more real. As far as turning the commandments on their ear, I don't get that either. They become more clear and liveable, as far as I'm concerned.

reply to post by adjensen

The 144,000 that John speaks of in Revelation are Jewish witnesses whose job it is to spread the Gospel on Earth.

Interesting idea, never heard that before, but if they exist they are off the radar today, Jews generally aren't too big on spreading the Gospel of Christ in fulfillment of scriptures like Matt. 24:14 in the 21st century.

But you are correct the 144,000 did start out as only Jews, but that was way back in the first century.

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by adjensen

 

Salvation itself is still just that simple. But salvation is just the beginning. Once you are of the household of God, you are supposed to move on to a real relationship with Yahweh, our Father. The way the bible has been changed over time keeps us from understanding who He is. We are given stories that have been subtly altered to make Yahweh seem to be a cruel, bloodthirsty warlord. I think that was the point, too. Just read a post or two from some of these folks on ATS. They have bought into those alterations full-force. It drives them away from what is the true love of Yahweh. I think it is a HUGE disgrace.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. My personal approach is to accept what I said before -- love God, love everyone, and then deal with the rest of it by applying that filter. If something implies a God that isn't all about loving each other, I'm going to be a bit suspicious of it. If you came to me and said "Dale, God told me to blow up the abortion clinic", I'd apply my filter, come to the conclusion that it's not loving everyone to be blowing up buildings, so God didn't suggest any such thing, and try and talk you out of your plan.

I just cannot see where you get that this translation radically changes faith. It doesn't radically change the way I believe in my God, it makes Him more real. As far as turning the commandments on their ear, I don't get that either. They become more clear and liveable, as far as I'm concerned.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. I've said before that the Ten Commandments don't matter, because if you keep Christ's Two Commandments, you can't break any of the ten. However, if one insists on keeping the Ten going, consider these two admonitions:

1) Do not lie
2) Do not answer with a lie about a certain event, because you are afraid on the inside of the consequences for speaking the truth

The first is obviously far simpler, but it also takes away the notion of doing bad because you can justify it. The Inquisition? Horrible, horrible thing. But I'll bet you every single person involved thought that they were justified in killing and torturing, because someone had taken the "Do not kill" and added some sort of "unless..." to it.

Not me. God says "Do not lie", I'm not going to lie.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by adjensen

 

The 144,000 that John speaks of in Revelation are Jewish witnesses whose job it is to spread the Gospel on Earth.

Interesting idea, never heard that before, but if they exist they are off the radar today, Jews generally aren't too big on spreading the Gospel of Christ in fulfillment of scriptures like Matt. 24:14 in the 21st century.

I'm really stretching my memory here, because this goes back to my Fundamentalist days, when I figured that the End Times were going to happen in 1988 ("one generation after the restoration of Israel") but I think that the idea is that God infuses these guys with total and absolute truth, and they become the most rabid proselytizers that the world has ever seen. They're Jewish, but "Jews for Jesus", in a literal sense.

Which, of course, would be the ultimate let down for people who count on not being annoyed by religious fanatics once the Christians are gone :-)

Originally posted by adjensen


I'm really stretching my memory here, because this goes back to my Fundamentalist days, when I figured that the End Times were going to happen in 1988 ("one generation after the restoration of Israel") .....

yes yes OK....

Most generations live past 40...I dunno?

But if the clock starts at THIS return to themother land, it ull be 67 from when they sealed the deal....

Still not sure if that is the event that gets the end going

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by adjensen

 

The 144,000 that John speaks of in Revelation are Jewish witnesses whose job it is to spread the Gospel on Earth.

Interesting idea, never heard that before, but if they exist they are off the radar today, Jews generally aren't too big on spreading the Gospel of Christ in fulfillment of scriptures like Matt. 24:14 in the 21st century.

But you are correct the 144,000 did start out as only Jews, but that was way back in the first century.

no the 144 K are JEWISH...and yes they are the ones pushing truth thru that tough time...issue is? why? why them? 12 tribes throw-back? payback for rejecting the true SON? I dunno...?

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Halo Reach. I never knew video games can look so real and beautiful.

My adult boy is an expert...me...I'm a tiger woods x360 guru

reply to post by OldThinker


Should of gotten the Halo then. It's like riding your first bike with training wheels.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Should of gotten the Halo then. It's like riding your first bike with training wheels.

Cool..makes sense...hey RR, when you have time see how many A/A's from the OP responded to my questions in all seriousness...and see how LOW that % is...why is that?

R they afraid of OT? ur not! props2u!

Originally posted by adjensen
......

Agreed, wholeheartedly. My personal approach is to accept what I said before -- love God, love everyone,.....

OT knows he's on BTS in all reality, so...yes adjensen...I can use scripture here...you r applying John 13:34, 35.....OT's spiritual 'FAV'...ATT-style, if you know who Charles Barkley/commercial is....

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by adjensen


I'm really stretching my memory here, because this goes back to my Fundamentalist days, when I figured that the End Times were going to happen in 1988 ("one generation after the restoration of Israel") .....

yes yes OK....

Most generations live past 40...I dunno?

But if the clock starts at THIS return to themother land, it ull be 67 from when they sealed the deal....

Still not sure if that is the event that gets the end going

So you figure 2015? Time will tell, lol.

I believe that the logic was something like a generation was considered 40 years in Jesus' time, so the remark about things being within a generation of the budding of the fig tree meant within 40 years of 1948. Clearly didn't work out that way, unless it really WAS difficult to find a righteous man, and the tribulation was a lot less stressful than we'd thought, lol.

This guy works it out to be 2018-2028, so a safe bet that I won't see it. Fine by me.

Unfortunately, this guy has it happening next month, on 10 October, which means I'll miss my birthday the next day. Remember to send your cards early, lol.

no the 144 K are JEWISH...and yes they are the ones pushing truth thru that tough time...issue is? why? why them? 12 tribes throw-back? payback for rejecting the true SON? I dunno...?

Supposed to be 12,000 from each tribe, so I guess so. Logically, I suppose that a bunch of Jews running around proclaiming the Gospel would be more impactful than random people, certainly for a Jewish audience. Kind of a last shot at getting the chosen people in the fold.

Originally posted by adjensen
......
This guy works it out to be 2018-2028, so a safe bet that I won't see it. Fine by me.

.....

Thx for being SOOOOOO informed...skeptics, ru watching?

btw, why would you think you'd be gone by 18? That's only a few yrs away...ru ill?

Originally posted by OldThinker
btw, why would you think you'd be gone by 18? That's only a few yrs away...ru ill?

I've a series of problems, health wise, that are not conducive for long life, though one can never tell, eh? But in addition, my wife passed away about six months ago, so taking into account the statistic that widowers are six times more likely to die shortly after their spouses, coupled with my current health, I'm not too worried about seeing the Rapture, lol. As I said earlier, it's more likely that I will join Jesus suddenly than he will be joining me.

But I'm okay with that. The Lord has blessed me with a wonderful life until the current set of difficulties, and if my work here is done, I will welcome whatever comes after this. There is nothing ahead of me that I fear, as the most important person in my life has already experienced it, and I have faith that she will be there to help me make my way.

Originally posted by adjensen
...my wife passed away about six months ago.....

whew.....

i AM SO SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A, you have a friend here, ok? please u2u me if u ever have difficulties/issues....

Did I share this with you yet? www.tonycampolo.org...

let me know.....u will be OK....and HERE...after 18....IJN!

reply to post by OldThinker


That's a very nice message, OT, thank you for sharing that. Have never heard of him before, but I like the style. The bit about the husband and the wife wanting to survive the other to spare them the grief is something that I've struggled with a bit -- because I was the one with the health issues, and because I viewed my wife as a much better person than I, more than once I've questioned why her and not me, and then I feel bad because I would never want her to feel as bad as I have, and this is clearly my cross to bear, not hers.

Thanks again. As I said, though things don't look too optimistic for me, there's nothing to say that I won't be around with ya in 2018 to laugh at yet another prediction run afoul of God's plans :-)