Revelation; The seven churches (have been promised)

Originally posted by DISRAELI

I have not set myself to do any more than understand a Revelation which somebody else received.

(smile)

I suppose you do not understand that you are almost quoting the Quran about the claims made by false prophets.

I make no claim to have received a Revelation of any kind.

I suppose you do not understand that you are even more closely quoting the Quran about the claims made by false prophets.

In any case, you don't understand.

In order to understand the Revelation of John, one must have received.....

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

a Revelation.

That should be a "no-brainer".

the Bible instructs me to ignore false prophets and those who come in their own name setting themslves up as gods.

And precisely where did you get this idea that I am a 'false prophet' or that I have 'set myself up'?

(Probably from the same place where you 'got' your interpretations of the Revelation of John: "the angel of the Abyss".)

If I am a "false prophet", what is the false Prophecy I have made?

Merely because I contradict your nonsensical interpretations of the Revelation of John does not 'qualify' me as a "false prophet".

Nor did I 'set myself up'.

The name on my birth certificate is Michael.

This was not something within my control.

I received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection"--also things which are absolutely beyond any individual's personal control--which is the Source of my explanation of the Revelation of John, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices.

Nor did I write the 12th chapter of the Book of Daniel, nor Sura 2:98 of the Quran.

So, what evidence do you have in support of your contention that I have 'set myself up'?

(And I won't go to the trouble of quoting Jesus about men being 'gods'. You would not understand.)

Michael Cecil

reply to post by DISRAELI
To extrapolate your very good comments on this post, Disraeli: Luke 17: 23 & 24 "And they will say
to you, "Look here!" or "Look there!" Do not go after them or follow them. "For as the lightning that
flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will
be in His day"
One must have the imperishable seed reborn in their soul by accepting Jesus. This spirit, The Holy
One, has no connection whatsoever to human consciousness or all attempts to explain God without
including the power of His Son.
Jesus again warns (in the gospel of Matthew) against believing in false prophets who claim to come in
His name."Then, if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. For false christs
and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to decieve, if possible, even the elect
"See, I have told you beforehand. "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out:
or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will be the coming of the Son
of Man be. Matthew 24: 23-27
I included these scriptures, Disraeli, as part of your study of Revelations. Since the image of the beast
is what is going to fool so many[they will think it is actually Christ], I thought it appropriate to add these
scriptures as a word of knowledge in dealing with the events in Revelation that will occur.
You are doing an excellent job on this post.

reply to post by Freedom of Thought

Thank you for that contribution.
As you say, the passages from Luke and Matthew are very relevant to Revelation warnings about the Beast, and applicable to, e.g., new religions arising out of China

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
reply to post by nlouise

 

Certainly, none of my writings could have been accomplished on my own.

I received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection"; both of which were also received by John.

But, at the same time, my writings are also possible only because I have met in this life, people with whom I have been very closely associated in other lives, who also had a Knowledge of these Revelations, as I explain in detail, through the lyrics of songs, elsewhere.

Oh, by the way, the Revelation of John was written 'backwards' inasmuch as the Revelation of the "resurrection" Reveals the Vision of the "Son of man" which is described in the opening passages: Revelations 1:7.

The Revelation of the "resurrection" is very cryptically referred to in Revelations 20:12 "...while the Book of Life was opened, and other books were opened which were the record of what they had done in their lives..." (not life, singular)

This is a cryptic reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Furthermore, there is a Dead Sea Scroll which refers to the "Three Books" which are the same as the Three Phases of the War of the Sons of Light; they consist of the Book of the Law, the Book of Life, and the Book of Truth.

It is no mere coincidence, then, that there are three monotheistic religions.

Michael Cecil

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"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy
of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add
to him the plagues that are written in this book;
And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life,
from the holy city, and from the things which are written
in this book." Revelation 22: 18-19

Michael, perhaps you should try just reading the one book, The
Bible, and ask God to help you understand what He wants
you to know. If you are truly saved, you are entitled to his
grace and mercy; and as such...."the anointing which you
have recieved from Him abides in you, and you do not need
that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches
you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and
just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." 1 John 2: 27

I fear that you are being decieved. There is no other religion on
the face of the earth, nor ever will be, that teaches Jesus Christ
is the Son of God, and redemption awaits all who believe in Him.

Confusion and fear enter in when the other kingdom is being
consulted. You may not be aware of the level of deception.

Deuteronomy also provides wisdom: "You shall not add to the
word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may
keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I
command you." Deuteronomy 4: 2

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
In any case, you don't understand.
In order to understand the Revelation of John, one must have received....
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
a Revelation.
That should be a "no-brainer".

Yes, I appreciate that everybody who disagrees with you must be thoroughly stupid.
But I cannot claim such exalted status- I cannot hope to match "the only individual in human history".
Therefore, as I have said before, I must put my trust in the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And precisely where did you get this idea that I am a 'false prophet' or that I have 'set myself up'?

I regard you as a "false prophet" because you are presenting teaching which is in conflict with Biblical teaching, and therefore offering "another god" within the meaning of Deuteronomy ch13 vv1-4.
Your claim to have had a "Revelation" of your own indicates that you are what that passage calls "a dreamer of dreams". Therefore I follow the instruction of Deuteronomy "not to listen to" that prophet. Incidentally, a "prophet", in both Greek and the original Hebrew, is "one who speaks". "Making prophecies" is not necessarily part of the definition. But I certainly noticed your claim in another thread that you have "received a prophecy".

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Meanwhile the followers of Christ will be persecuted and put to death. "The Beast will be allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them"

If you insist that your religion will take over the world, you are, in effect, claiming that your religion is the worship of the Beast, the religion of the Antichrist. I'm willing to believe you on that point.

Please tell me, where are the "Christians" as you call them that are persecuted to death today?

There are no "Christians" persecuted to death anywhere in the world, instead open the newspaper and see where your clergy is today? "Church" was a dead end a long time.

There is only one group of self-cultivators in the world who are persecuted to death. They are in China and they are the Falun Dafa disciples.

Btw, who says the Beast will win, there is nothing like that, the Beast has a very short reign on earth right now and then the righteous people will prevail forever.

I lack answers to many of my questions. Especially I would like to hear about the extreme topic of "Faith only" in Christianity, is it not a poor concept? Swedenborg made many comments about it and of course thought of it as a joke to reach the heavens based on some lipworks in church. It is all about cultivating away all your desires and emotions in daily life, no matter which religion or cultivation school we are talking about.

And the concept of one God only in Christianity does not hold at all. There is Yahweh too at a minimum. And of course for all the other ethnic groups there are other Gods no matter which notion some people hold. Buddha Shakyamuni came long before Jesus and if anyone was a high-level God he was.

Please tell us, what do you make out of Swedenborg´s comments about the end, coming directly from Jesus and describing Falun Dafa, its doctrines, its spread and future in detail?


Swedenborg was the last true prophet and he was extremely explicit.

I urge anyone wanting to understand the bible to read his scriptures, they are extremely far from modern "theologists" and they come from Jesus Christ himself. No need to get into trouble with anything but the original is there?

There are 50 000 pages describing exactly how wrong all people interpreted the bible and how Jesus actually meant it.

Link:

www.sacred-texts.com... - directly from Jesus to a man of great wisdom and virtues.

reply to post by DISRAELI


What a wonderful thread, seems to me you have a very good understanding of the book of revelations. Others here are clearly causing me to have a horrible horrible headache. I would love to join your thread in a deeper way, sadly I am a Christian with thin skin so I don't touch these threads to much.

I think you might enjoy this.

Originally posted by Gaussq

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Meanwhile the followers of Christ will be persecuted and put to death. "The Beast will be allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them"

If you insist that your religion will take over the world, you are, in effect, claiming that your religion is the worship of the Beast, the religion of the Antichrist. I'm willing to believe you on that point.

Please tell me, where are the "Christians" as you call them that are persecuted to death today?

There are no "Christians" persecuted to death anywhere in the world, instead open the newspaper and see where your clergy is today? "Church" was a dead end a long time.

There is only one group of self-cultivators in the world who are persecuted to death. They are in China and they are the Falun Dafa disciples.

Btw, who says the Beast will win, there is nothing like that, the Beast has a very short reign on earth right now and then the righteous people will prevail forever.

I lack answers to many of my questions. Especially I would like the topis of "Faith" only in Christianity, is it not a poor concept? Swedenborg made many comments about it and of course thought of it as a joke to reach heavens based on some lipworks in church.

Please tell us, what do you make out of Swedenborg´s comments about the end, coming directly from Jesus and describing Falun Dafa, its doctrines, its spread and future in detail?


Swedenborg was the last true prophet and he was extremely explicit.

I urge anyone wanting to understand the bible to read his scriptures, they are extremely far from modern "theologists" and they come from Jesus Christ himself. No need to get into trouble with anything but the original is there?

There are 50 000 pages describing exactly how wrong all people interpreted the bible and how Jesus actually meant it.

Link:

www.sacred-texts.com... - directly from Jesus to a man of great wisdom and virtues.

Say what!!??



* 2010: Nigerian Christians suffer terror and torture from Muslim extremists. Whole village massacred
* More Christians were martyred in the twentieth century than in all previous centuries combined
* 171,000 Christians were martyred in 2005 [Int. Journal of Missionary Research]
* Currently over 200 million Christians are being persecuted worldwide [World Evangelical Alliance]
* Iran's parliament believes Muslims who change their faith should be put to death
* Orissa India: up to 70,000 have been forced to flee their homes in riots against Christians

seekingtruth.co.uk...
www.persecution.org...
www.protectthehuman.com...

If you want more links look them up! Not hard to find at all! Most of this never makes main stream news.

Originally posted by Gaussq
Please tell me, where are the "Christians" as you call them that are persecuted to death today?

There are no "Christians" persecuted to death anywhere in the world, instead open the newspaper and see where your clergy is today?

I did not say "are being". I said "will be". This occurs, in ch13, after the Beast has taken full control

There is only one group of self-cultivators in the world who are persecuted to death. They are in China and they are the Falun Dafa disciples.

But they are not followers of Christ. Revelation is talking about the followers of Christ. That is why it is Jesus Christ, and no other figure, who dominates the first chapter. Any other figure that tries to take his place is, by definition, an antichrist.
Since your disciples are not followers of Christ, revelation has no relevance for them, and they have no relevance for Revelation.

Especially I would like the topis of "Faith" only in Christianity, is it not a poor concept? Swedenborg made many comments about it and of course thought of it as a joke to reach heavens based on some lipworks in church.

The essence of Faith is Trust. It is about trust in God, who is greater than we are.
Faith in that sense is absolutely central to the New Testament, and indeed to the Bible at large.

Philosophers think it is a "poor concept", because they are too wise in their minds to grasp it.
As Paul said, about the preaching of "Christ Crucified", it is "folly to the Greeks".

Please tell us, what do you make out of Swedenborg´s comments about the end, coming directly from Jesus and describing Falun Dafa, its doctrines, its spread and future in detail?

Swedenborg is not a biblical teacher, and his claim to get his doctrines direct from Jesus is untrue.
Therefore I have no interest in what he says on the subject.
I don't know how many takers you will get for "50,000 pages".

Originally posted by DISRAELII regard you as a "false prophet" because you are presenting teaching which is in conflict with Biblical teaching, and therefore offering "another god" within the meaning of Deuteronomy ch13 vv1-4.
Your claim to have had a "Revelation" of your own indicates that you are what that passage calls "a dreamer of dreams".

You are really creating quite a conundrum for yourself.

Isaiah claimed to have received a Vision and the Revelation of the "resurrection".

So did Daniel, Ezekiel, Jesus and Mohammed.

They all either spoke or wrote about the Vision of the "Son of man" and that Revelation.

So did John.

And you claim to believe at least most of these people that they received these Revelations.

So, then, I say that I have received these Revelations, and you accuse me of being a "false prophet".

How so?

Why is my claim any different?

Because it contradicts the theologies created by the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

That was what Isaiah and Daniel and Jesus and Mohammed and even Moses were accused of by the respective official religious establishments of the time. They were all accused, in one way or another, of being "false prophets" or "possessed by demons" or merely writing "poetry" rather than Revelations.

This is why the Book of Daniel was excluded from the canon by the Jewish religious 'authorities', and why a similar attempt was made, as related in the Talmud, with regards to the Book of Ezekiel. And, as far as I know, a similar attempt was made with regards to the Revelation of John itself:

The religious 'authorities' were very uncomfortable with anyone claiming to have received a Vision--which is why they are described in the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls with the words: "Of the Vision of Knowledge, (the Jewish religious 'authorites' say) 'It is unsure.'"

Therefore I follow the instruction of Deuteronomy "not to listen to" that prophet. Incidentally, a "prophet", in both Greek and the original Hebrew, is "one who speaks". "Making prophecies" is not necessarily part of the definition. But I certainly noticed your claim in another thread that you have "received a prophecy".

So, first of all, how is that Prophecy false especially when you don't even know what it is really in the first place?

In any case, you are following the instructions of Deuteronomy as you interpret them on the basis of human thought...

Which is no different than what the Jewish religious 'authorities' did with (dis)respect to Jesus and the other prophets that they murdered. (You do know that don't you? that many of the prophets were murdered and that an attempt was even made to murder Moses?)

Don't be shy here.

You are claiming that I am possessed by Satan, just as Jesus was accused of.

But, specifically, with regards to the Prophecy of Chapter 12:1 of the Book of Daniel...

Do you believe that Daniel was a prophet?

Do you believe that the Prophecy in Chapter 12 will ever be fulfilled?

Then precisely what would you suggest that such a Michael say to you in order that you understand the Truth?

Especially if he has received the Vision of the "Son of man", the Revelation of the "resurrection", and Prophecies of the "time of trouble"?

Precisely how would you suggest that he convey that information to you?

Michael Cecil

reply to post by dthwraith

Thank you for giving me that link. It does look interesting, and I can go back to it later for deeper study.
I know what you mean about the headache, but the adrenaline can be quite enjoyable too.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Isaiah claimed to have received a Vision and the Revelation of the "resurrection".
So did Daniel, Ezekiel, Jesus
They all either spoke or wrote about the Vision of the "Son of man" and that Revelation.
So did John.
And you claim to believe at least most of these people that they received these Revelations.
So, then, I say that I have received these Revelations, and you accuse me of being a "false prophet".
How so?
Why is my claim any different?

Your claim is different because what they are saying is not what you are saying.
Absolutely none of them spoke about the kind of "Vision and revelation of the Son of Man" which you are claiming.
I believe them, and THEREFORE I do not believe you, because you are teaching something different.
Let's go over the texts in detail, and establish exactly where you say they agree with you.
Because that claim is false.

You are claiming that I am possessed by Satan, just as Jesus was accused of.

No, I have not made that claim. Nothing as exaggerated as that.
I am only claiming that you are not following Biblical teaching, and on that basis I suspect that your words are not being guided by the Holy Spirit.

Then precisely what would you suggest that such a Michael say to you in order that you understand the Truth?
Especially if he has received the Vision of the "Son of man", the Revelation of the "resurrection", and Prophecies of the "time of trouble"?
Precisely how would you suggest that he convey that information to you?

If the information was untrue, I would not want him to convey it to me in any form.

reply to post by DISRAELI

You remind me of a local Orthodox rabbi who I talked with over a period of 4 years, from 1978 to 1982.

I had written a letter to him, and to 665 other rabbis (I mailed 700 letters, but 34 were returned as being undeliverable) in June, 1978, telling him the Prophecies I had received and talking about the Doctrine of "resurrection". And, over the next 4 years, I visited him periodically (and unannounced) to argue with him over these issues. (Do you have any idea at all how many arguments can be devised by an Orthodox rabbi over a period of 4 years?)

He told me that the problem he had was not with Jesus but with Paul. He told me that, in the Talmud, there is some discussion about previous lives; though no official recognition that it was legitimate (well, of course, the Talmud was written by the Pharisees). And, with each and every argument that he presented against the Doctrine of "resurrection", I presented a counter-argument from the Revelations. We also talked about other things.

In 1982, in my second to last visit to him, I presented again the Prophecies I had received--I have not gained any money or any personal publicity for these Prophecies, nor have I gathered followers as a result of these Prophecies--and tried to explain to him what a tragedy it would be if no Jewish religious 'authority' were to believe those Prophecies, and how many lives would be lost unnecessarily because of that. His response was that he could not provide any rational reason why he could not believe me--I had already paried his arguments over some 4 years; but that he had a 'gut feeling' that I was not telling him the Truth. I explained the situation again and asked him why he thought I would lie to him, what motivation could I possibly have? He averred that he did not know; he just could not contradict his 'gut feeling'.

In my final meeting with him in late 1982, I confronted him again with the tragedy that would result if I could find no one to believe me.

His final response to me was: "I am just not strong enough to believe you."

Obviously, there was nothing more that I could say.

But what I did learn from that is that this 'gut reaction' is a reaction of the "self", which is also the 'fallen' consciousness.

I could argue about these things for another 4 years with you; and you would likely concoct dozens more very, very, very clever arguments against what I am telling you.

But, even if you found yourself without an argument, even if you had no answer whatsoever to what I was telling you, you would ultimately fall back on this 'gut reaction' that you have that I am not telling the Truth.

To the best of my knowledge, millions, upon millions of people are going to die because of precisely this kind of 'gut reaction'.

This is both a large-scale tragedy and a tragedy for you personally; because I have no motivation whatsoever to lie to you; whereas your principal motivation, come hell or high water, is to gather 'admirers' on ATS who are impressed by your teaching.

You might as well enjoy your ambition as long as you can.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by DISRAELI


My friend,

Thank you for your time on this thread, sharing your perspective and comparing it with others. There are great gifts in sharing, so I am always amazed when I see being done amongst those who would otherwise remain apart.

I have a question for you, but before I ask I feel obliged to reveal a little about myself before I begin.

Through out my life I have walked a very long and winding path to the teachings of Jesus. I was baptised to the Catholic church when I was born. I grew disillusioned with Christianity as a whole as a child. From there I moved on to witchcraft of many traditions. I studied under learned instructors from Europe to Africa. In this time, I was initiated into various secret societies, some I am sure you know about, others no one has heard of. I found all of them lacking. I found all of these paths missing some great truth. In fact, I found them all as deceiveing me from the one great truth. Eventually, I hit a point in my life where I had lost half my worldly possessions. I became bitter, depressed, angry, and self loathing that I could reach this point knowing all that I knew. So, I sat down and read the Bible and meditated upon it. In it I found the great truth I was looking for, carefully concealed with in its pages. It hid there like a precious diamond hidden in a lump of coal. I gave up all my worldly possessions and set out to teach this truth. I do not consider myself Christian, but a student of Christ. Which brings me here to these forums.

So, the question. What I still puzzle over, that you might answer me, is how will followers of Christ recognise him when he returns? How will they know so that they won't be deceived.

I have been to Hell, been through it, and came out of it. I know how deceptive it is. I know the brilliant power of Satan to conceal his darkness by hiding it in truth. I know the power of Man to be mislead. So, I ask with open heart, how will you know?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Michael Cecil

I am still waiting for this detailed discussion of the statements made by Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, and John.
Because these were sent by God.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
So, the question. What I still puzzle over, that you might answer me, is how will followers of Christ recognise him when he returns? How will they know so that they won't be deceived.

The crucial passage on that point is Matthew ch24 (and the parallels in the other gospels).
He says that the coming of the Son of Man will be "as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west"- and I take this comparison to mean "in an instant, and universally visible".
He then goes on to say "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". Whatever this looks like on the day, I think the point is that the arrival would be universally recognisable. When Christ returns, everybody will know. There would be no room for doubt on the matter.

Conversely, Matthew tells us how to recognise someone who is not the Christ.
"Then if anyone say to you, "Lo, here is the Christ" or "there he is", do not believe it."
"Do not go into the wilderness"
"Do not go into the inner rooms".
In short, if you have to go anywhere to meet him, then he is not the true Christ. That's the rule of thumb. That kind of coming is not "as lightning", not "with the clouds of heaven".

What causes confusion is the idea that he would return by being born into a new human life on earth. Then the question of "how to recognise him?" would arise. But Matthew is telling us that anyone living a human life here on earth here and now is by definition not the returned Christ, and that solves the dilemma.

The short answer to your question is; my belief is that the entire human population would know. It would be unmistakable.

What causes confusion is the idea that he would return by being born into a new human life on earth. Then the question of "how to recognise him?" would arise. But Matthew is telling us that anyone living a human life here on earth here and now is by definition not the returned Christ, and that solves the dilemma.

The short answer to your question is; my belief is that the entire human population would know. It would be unmistakable.

Living a "human life" or not does not exclude him having a human body here. A God can incarnate here in flesh and blood, or did not Jesus do that?

Surely, to be able to save someone from destruction the almighty must first show himself in a human body and teach the people his doctrines so that they would have a chance to know whether it is the real thing or not.

What did Jesus say to Swedenborg on the matter about the Lord incarnating down here now? Remember Swedenborg spoke about the apocalypse 240 years back, he should have much more accurate information than anyone in the bible.

Jesus said the Lord would incarnate in China of flesh and blood, and spread his teachings around the world. His disciples would be persecuted to death by the CCP and anyone who understood his doctrines would follow him forever. Of course not every human being can obtain the Fa before the maze is broken, how could that be allowed?

Who is said to survive the apocalypse when the maze comes off? Good people(with lots of virtue and less karma) will make it always. Hence there is truth in the old saying "The meek shall inherit the earth".

It is said all the old kings and queens, Buddha Shakyamuni´s disciples etc obtained the Fa in China among the first people during the 90s.

Originally posted by Gaussq
Living a "human life" or not does not exclude him having a human body here. A God can incarnate here in flesh and blood, or did not Jesus do that?

He did it once. The point of the teaching in Matthew is that this was to be a unique event. It would not happen again. The gist of Matthew's teaching is; "If you have to go somewhere to see him, if it is possible to go somewhere to see him, then it is not the true returned Christ. By definition"

Jesus said the Lord would incarnate in China of flesh and blood,

What Swedenborg says Jesus says does not count. As a curiosity, I can point out that the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, writing in "Divine Principle" claims that the Messiah would have to be born in Korea. He dismisses China on the grounds that "China, being a communist country, is on the Satanic side". Perhaps the two claimants could get together in a boxing ring and fight it out, winner to meet Raj Patel in the final.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The crucial passage on that point is Matthew ch24 (and the parallels in the other gospels).
He says that the coming of the Son of Man will be "as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west"- and I take this comparison to mean "in an instant, and universally visible".
He then goes on to say "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". Whatever this looks like on the day, I think the point is that the arrival would be universally recognisable. When Christ returns, everybody will know. There would be no room for doubt on the matter.

Interesting, when I read that passage I interpreted it a bit differently. I perceived it meant it comes in through the eyes and resonates in the mind. The clouds of heaven I perceived as heavenly thoughts, ie. of Faith, Hope, Love, and forgiveness, all of which have great power and Glory, and which are universally recognisable.

Yours is interesting, and I shall contemplate it some more.

Originally posted by DISRAELIConversely, Matthew tells us how to recognise someone who is not the Christ.
"Then if anyone say to you, "Lo, here is the Christ" or "there he is", do not believe it."
"Do not go into the wilderness"
"Do not go into the inner rooms".
In short, if you have to go anywhere to meet him, then he is not the true Christ. That's the rule of thumb. That kind of coming is not "as lightning", not "with the clouds of heaven".

Again, this passage is where I perceived it more as an understanding within us. You do not need to leave where ever you are, but rather look inside. Hhhhmmm.

I will consider it some more.

Originally posted by DISRAELIWhat causes confusion is the idea that he would return by being born into a new human life on earth. Then the question of "how to recognise him?" would arise. But Matthew is telling us that anyone living a human life here on earth here and now is by definition not the returned Christ, and that solves the dilemma.

Here I think we have the same conclusion.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The short answer to your question is; my belief is that the entire human population would know. It would be unmistakable.

Here we agree again. I do hope we are both right on this one. If not, life on this rock will get very ugly indeed.

Thank you so much for sharing. I will now return to spectator until I see a fitting opportunity to ask some more.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Gaussq
Living a "human life" or not does not exclude him having a human body here. A God can incarnate here in flesh and blood, or did not Jesus do that?

Now why would God need to incarnate in the flesh? Do we all not have eyes to see him and ears to hear him? Are we not all His children and worthy of his benevolence? Do we all not feel in our hearts what he wants of us by feeling what we want for ourselves?

I am not speaking of the material desires that feed our ego, but the deeper yearning that each of us feel to feed the soul. You know, that desire to be loved by all. Thus is the commandment of God a natural voice in our soul to love all.

Deify a man if that is what you need my friend. My God loves all his children equally and needs not the flesh to show it. Jesus was the Son of God, Son of Man, and so are we all. We are not walking talking deities. Though I understand your point in that some have deified Jesus. I am not one of those.

With Love,

Your Brother