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Analyzing a political argument between friends on facebook

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posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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One of my friends pointed this argument out to me on my other friends' facebook and I had a lot of laughs. I am not in this conversation but I thought I would post it to let you guys analyze it and say anything you feel about it. And BTW the one labeled "T" hasn't been in combat...yet.

So my friend (which will be displayed as T) posted a video of the airforce since he is in the air national guard for 9/11 sympathy purposes. My other friend(which will be displayed as J) is somewhat of a like minded friend of mine that doesn't agree with the whole war and unfortunately got himself into something he should have never gotten in.

J: If you like promoting death..., if we are a superpower, why would we have to fight for anything or fight anyone from a continent away especially when we are apparantly unmatched in military technology with the exception of isreal, boming an already impoverished country back to the stone age, deforming the offspring of thoes people with Depleted Uranium?...I understand your love for this country, i love this country too, but not at this cost...

T: J, your an absolute idiot, if you don't have anything positive to say, especially knowing I'm in the military don't. your completely uneducated on the subject matter. War is necessary, nobody likes it, but it is. We wouldn't be where we are if we didn't have to.


M: So let the extremists take over an kill their own people that makes sense... Feel free to stand in front of us buddy

J: im just saying look at the reality of it...obviously the orgin of this country was based off of war, but now in modern times, companies and conglomerates are profiting off destruction and death that war brings,. Im just saying how would you feel if you were living in that impoverished country? Im not trying to offend you


T: J, your your extreme lack of intelligence is so obvious right now it blows my mind. You are no longer welcome in my home. Lets just do a little analogy. If i punched you in the face how would you react? Would you be like "whatevs im just gonna rap with the zero talent I have and not do anything about it" or would you fight back protecting yourself?


T: Your next post, depending on how angry it makes me, will lead to you being blocked and I hope to never see you again. Your extreme lack of respect to those who have died for this country disgusts me and I will not consider you a friend. Goodbye


M: Those impoverished people are killed by the car bombs that their own people make and do you think those people care that they kill children? Nope not at all.


L: There are people fighting in parts of the world defending your right to speak that bull# that is coming out of your mouth J, remember that!!!


L: Thats pretty inconsiderat and stupid of John to talk # on you when you are in the #in military. i dont get it ? lol


T: You went to high school with him, its no secret that he is stupid and socially awkward.


H: its your choice to support the war but you should always support our troops (or Airmen) heh

L: definatly, they pay the ultimate sacrifice

G: J, not only was that comment idiotic because you posted something completely disrespectful about the military on one of your friends walls who happens to be in the military, but it also made no sense politically... Your basically saying ...that if a country is impoverished and "weak" they should have to ability to do whatever they want. They can kill thousands of INNOCENT Americans and we shouldnt do anything about it just because they are impoverished?!! Are you kidding me?!! So if the people flying those planes on 9-11 happened to be from a wealthy country it would have been okay to retalliate??? I have heard a lot of ridiculous arguments against the war in iraq and afghanistan but this has to be the most ridiculous and stupidest of all.


T: ‎^^well put Mr. G

J, you got a response?


R: you cant have peace without war. when someone punches you in the face and kills thousands of innocent people its game time. whoever this J character is should be thanking the military for his freedom. the fact that you can say stupid stu...ff is provided through the fact that the military has fought and died for your freedom of speech. freedom of speech doesnt mean to be an idiot. i went to basic with T thats why im commenting on this. military guys go through alot of crap and dont need a thank u everyday but a comment like that. go one day in the military and you would respect it 10 times more.


T: J, you have three military members in this post and you seemed to run away with you tail between your legs..why? Wheres your argument? You seemed so firm in your statements.


C: Hey guys. So I saw this argument and messaged J and he asked me to post this:

"I'm just saying...I support the troops, i have and always will, I just don't support the unjustified wars as of right now. Aside from the troops that are extr...emely patriotic, most of the force that is in Iraq is mainly voluntary, because of the economic environment that has been placed among everyone, most have been forced by this to sign up for money. The only wars that have come close to even threatening our freedoms and securities were the the world wars, the cold war, which was mainly an occupation of both political and military force from both sides. Korea was a police action, Vietnam was police action, just as far as every occupied territory. The current war which originated from 9/11 at first was to find Osama bin Laden, which then quickly changed to Saddam Hussein having nuclear capability, which there is still no evidence to prove this accusation, then changed to democratizing the country of Iraq… at least that’s what fox news says or what Rush Limbaugh says…Most if not all of the countries that we have occupied in our were impoverished. Every country that we touch with our weapons has left some kind of abnormality to both foreign and American soldiers, When we sprayed the rice fields of Vietnam with agent orange, it not only had a military advantage but it also hit a moderate to large sized portion of the population, In the Gulf war, we were using DU shells, which stand for depleted uranium, not only did it effect the outlying populations of the land we were occupying but our troops, OUR TROOPS T, came back with cancerous abnormalities which then effected their offspring. That can only come from the nuclear warfare that we have. The companies and conglomerates , like Boeing, and North American, that manufacture the weapons , jets, and bombs, make money of the unjustified wars. Basically a board of directors are making money off of you. the COMPANY could give a # whether or not you or the person half a world away being told what they are dying for , they’re just looking for an investment. I'm just saying that the people who die at a moment’s notice to defend our country are being used for monetary gain. I am forever grateful of the rights I have as an American. And I would die for them if they were to be taken away just as the next man or woman would… If you don’t want to have an actual argument, and just straight up insult my intelligence and my hobbies then, I cant respect your argument. I apologized if I offended you …I just was trying to make you aware of the whole situation not just one side, but if something like this makes you so upset as to never welcome into your household then I really just don’t know what else to think of you."

In my honest opinion, I felt that you were being a bit unfair to J. The man was just trying to have an educated argument which you quickly turned into a bashing on him. He even acknowledged that he wasn't trying to offend you...


G: You want to have a political argument about this then i'd be happy to take you up on it J... Basically in that giant essay you just posted your main point could be summed up to one thing, that we should fight wars which protect our freed...om/rights and the war in afghanistan is not a war that we're fighting to protect those rights. You are right that we should fight wars to protect our freedom/rights but i completely disagree that those are the only reasons we should fight wars. You are forgetting about the most obvious, most just, and best reason for fighting a war which is to keep american citizens safe! Keeping Americans safe is the reason we are fighting the war in afghanistan. on 9-11 terrorists from afghanistan killed thousands of innocent americans. That CAN NOT BE TOLERATED! According to your argument we should allow every attack on america to take place until there is a serious threat of our country being taken over. According to you we should allow thousands of americans to die. Your saying it is okay to allow an attack here and an attack there... Hell, who cares if a couple thousand americans die right?... Give me a break J

Btw... Since your so concerned with preserving our rights and freedom i thought i should point this out. Radical Islam hates us because we have the right to be free. They're goal is to take that freedom away from us. The nazi's and soviets didnt hate us because we were free. So according to your philosophy radical islam is a far greater threat than any we've faced before.


P: haha! his argument is so weak you can hit it from so many angles. The one that hasn't been addressed is that the problem he has is that there's monetary gain over war. As if the only reason for war is to make money, that's complete crap to ...start with. One of the great freedoms besides the freedom of speech is the American Dream. As a matter of fact I'd say J is trying to pursue that through his career. However, what if we were to tell John that he wasn't able to rap or write songs because it can be directed to hurt people's feelings. These poor people could be impoverished and John is well off, as a matter of fact he's profiting from his work, even though his work is good, he's profiting and someone else is losing. This is a skewed analogy because the companies he says are profiting and are the ones killing others.

However, the way I would look at it is the video T showed demonstrated that companies like Boeing are working their asses off to innovate new technologies and machines to give our military more protection and to back courageous men and women like T when in combat before our enemies come up with this technology. It's easy to nit pick having a technological advantage but let me tell you if you were in T shoes and you were over there in combat you would be dang proud to have companies developing technology to back you up while in combat, it could be the very thing that saves your life. And the fact that they profit is because they do a hell of a job giving our boys the advantage, however anytime in America that you provide good products/services you will be compensated, that's what brings all the talent to America to start with, that's what's so great about our nation.

M: Your saying I joined because of the money!! Hahaha what money your such an idiot




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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I feel sorry for 'J'


Do you associate with the rest of these people? The 'military' guy has just written off a former friend, told him he cannot come round to his house anymore, is trying to publicly humiliate him, and then says I'll block you on Facebook. Yet he is claiming that he is defending free speech somehow? All because J has a different opinion.

Is this guy retarded?


Star and Flag for the chuckle!


edit on 12-9-2010 by Big Raging Loner because: few words missing



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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It looks like a group of muscle .ed idiots berating another for speaking the truth and trying to force his opinion with intimidation.

And in all likelihood, some of those disgraces coming back from war will become cops and continue their power play tactics.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Please please please make J tell them that 911 wasn't done by Muslims anyway.. ooh I'm smiling just thinking of that crapstorm!!

Someone needs to buy these guys a Michael Moore book.. a nice gentle intro to the awkward truth.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Thyhorrorcosmic
 




let you guys analyze it and say anything you feel about it


The thought processes shown here are so unclear and so thoroughly based on assumptions built on assumptions that it's difficult to know where to begin. It's like if I were to say: "Everyone knows that cows are made of iron and so of course rabbits eat chalk dust. What kind of ignorant buffoon are you that you can come in here and pretend that cows don't like rabbits?"

How do you reply to that?

Unfortunately, your friend J doesn't seem to be thinking clearly either. This conversation reads like the brainwashed fighting the brainless.

I say invite them all to join ATS.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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Wow someone call Jerry freakin Springer, that was a mess.

Toward the end I had to make sure I knew who the heck was talking.
At any rate I see a lot of flag waving and not a lot of common sense in the statements made.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Yes, it was all very Jerry Springer like . That I what I do not get about this jealousy thing over US culture , it is hardly the etiquette et savoir vivre of the French , is it .



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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1. How do you analyze a politcal argument ON FACEBOOK.

2. How do you HAVE a political argument on facebook?

This thread dissapoints me in so many levels..



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by hippomchippo
 


LOL 100% in agreement with you on that! How do you do anything more than drool while on face book.
Your points are so accurate there should be some kind of international award given to you for it.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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I bet G says next : If you don't like it , why don't you leave USA . You notice that it always falls into the same pattern of retorts . Maybe they all get them from the same fox news book of redneck rejoinder.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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TLDR; A conservative military member gets upset because his friend questioned whether America was doing the right thing. Other friends come in, bash him.. And vilify him. Almost no one tries to actually address his points.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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Thats is how they work . They have no reasoning or logc . They do it by browbeating by herd tactics.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
I bet G says next : If you don't like it , why don't you leave USA . You notice that it always falls into the same pattern of retorts . Maybe they all get them from the same fox news book of redneck rejoinder.



Isn't that the truth!
I got so tired of hearing that crap I actually took them up on it and moved out; not because I don't love my country but because the level of blind obedience to party lines was so stifling I couldn't breath. Though I imagine that if my country needs me Ill go back to offer my fair share of blood.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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If I was that guy , the intelligent one . I wouldn't want to go round some half wit redneck miltary house anyway . End up in the basement with hunting knives and shotguns being brandished . I seen those southern comfort kind of films .



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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This is the exact reason why I avoid political and/or religious discussions on facebook. I'm happier knowing how their kid started his first day of school than to know they're completely ignorant of the world around them and will defend, until death, that ignorance.

Blissfully unaware.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 03:39 AM
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When I argue with neocons I always start out the argument by accusing them of being statists that love big government and high taxes.

That pisses them off to no end.

Then I say we should eliminate the federal government and only keep the state governments and their national guards.

This really pisses them off.

The beauty of it is, they can't respond without sounding like democrats.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 06:02 AM
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I am a conservative and I see exactly what “J” was trying to say. I don’t think that I would say that they represent all of the conservatives intellect.

The thing that really bothers me is that these are the same men that we ask (in other posts) who will you fight with “us or them”. If this is the mentality that they have, it is going to painstakingly difficult to change there way of looking at things. I don’t even know where to begin to explain 9/11.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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Both sides made valid points.

Both sides got all emotional.

Both sides should learn to debate and compartmentalize their emotion.

Both sides should learn the Constitution.

Both sides should learn that only response to outside force is allowed in a civil society.

That about covers it.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Thyhorrorcosmic
 



: "Everyone knows that cows are made of iron and so of course rabbits eat chalk dust. What kind of ignorant buffoon are you that you can come in here and pretend that cows don't like rabbits?"

How do you reply to that?


i would reply, that i believe some cows may very well like some rabbits, and i never implied they didn't, also i do not know the chalk dust diet of rabbits, nor have i ever found a living cow made of iron, happen to have pictures or proof of these things?.
typing hypothetically of course.

now another issue is who has the patience to enter into such a pointless futile conversation regarding iron cows/ rabbits eating chalk and the friendship or lack there of for the cows and rabbits,

that is more closely the case were as the OP,s copy pasted argument is so fruitless it was a waste of an attempt at debate.





edit on 13-9-2010 by pryingopen3rdeye because: spelling



posted on Sep, 14 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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Honestly, I'm on "J"s side in the debate.

Seems any argument against his points was either totally WRONG or used personal attacks and knee-jerk jingoism instead of addressing his actual points.

What also stuck out for me is that there were so many stupid, gung-ho patriots and defenders of imperialism/corporatism who responded to 'J', not even realizing what they were saying... the kind of language they used about our "brave soldiers" and "brave Boeing" fighting for our great country just reminded me of some Fascist or Communist regime. It's sad to see people who are in denial about the faults of our superpower and also cannot separate their support for the troops and their support for illegitimate wars/war profiteering. The brainwashing in America is not too much different from more oppressive regimes, and this quote, once again sums things up nicely via somebody who knows full well its reality:

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials



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