State of the Truth Movement 2010

Originally posted by bsbray11
It's also a conflict of interest to be commenting on what a "truth movement" should or shouldn't do, when you aren't even involved with it and in fact disagree with basically everything anyone associated with it says.

I disagree with most of the conclusions yes. That doesn't mean I have a conflict of interest. I have no financial, emotional, family, spiritual or any other connections with the US government or any 'official story'. I am just trying to do my part to actually move on investigation.

Why do you find this so hard to believe? Would you please stop doubting my intentions and focus on the topic at hand?

Originally posted by exponent
Why do you find this so hard to believe? Would you please stop doubting my intentions and focus on the topic at hand?

To focus on the topic at hand would be to ignore your posts since they don't contribute. It's either one or the other. But I've said all that needs to be about it.

I already addressed the OP in my first response on this thread.

Any movement to expose truth that gets intentionally and predictably organized outside of the establishment is going to get co-opted by the liars and steered towards a dead end. Truth is a living force. It has an intrinsic power to spread naturally and unpredictably by itself through every segment and level of society until it unexpectedly collects on mass and overpowers the surprised corrupt establishment. Like the many pristine droplets of an ancient melting glacier that form many tiny individual streams that start zigzagging unpredictably down the mountain until they collect near the base into an unstoppable roaring river.

reply to post by bsbray11


I'm sorry you feel that way, but I believe you and many others can contribute constructively. Perhaps we could come up with physical tests that would highlight the biggest points of contention with the report.

For example, do people still adhere to the idea that the fires did not reach ~1000C at ceiling levels? We could easily come up with experimental criteria to test this, NIST already have done so in fact so we could just steal theirs, but that is the sort of discussion I want to have.

Originally posted by OldDragger
The "truth" movement will continue as it has.
It is a cottage industry to sell books and videos. It's members will continue in their self righteous rambling, more BS will be added to the present mythology ( to sell new books and DVD's), the whole thing has already become like the moon landing conspiracy or the JFK assasination, just a genre for conspiacy fans.
If anything were proof, or even close to proof of an "inside job", we would know it by now. Oh sure, you guys will say there is proof. Please don't post your boring "research" I can read that crap in the 9/11 forum if I want to.
Facts and reason are not on the truthers side. It's just another moderm myth.

LOL You sound like a Nut as we "Truthers" are called.

Now thats your opinion, its ok you could stay close minded like the rest of the people who choose not to go out of the box and research things and try just try have some logic,common sense,etc etc and put two and two together.

And you know whats the difference between today and in the 60's when Kennedy got killed? There wasnt no internet to spread information and still til this day, most of us do believe it was hit by our own government.

"Truthers" are some smart nuts, Dont you agree?

This topic has been slowly sliding down the main page for the last day or so.

There must be someone here who wants to propose an experiment that can be carried out, that wants to discuss what theories are most plausible currently.

I will help out in any way I can, but I can't push forward a movement I don't belong to.

Originally posted by exponent
There must be someone here who wants to propose an experiment that can be carried out, that wants to discuss what theories are most plausible currently.

I will help out in any way I can, but I can't push forward a movement I don't belong to.

You were already given one. Try to make the sulfur from drywall cause the melting described in FEMA appendix C.

Ever heard of the phrase biting off more than you can chew? That must be what you're trying to do now.

You're just bumping your own thread. It's sliding because nobody cares, including you, or you'd go ahead and get to work.

Originally posted by bsbray11
and now many organizations that act independently of each other, the only common denominator being that they all disagree with government reports and want better ones.

The other common factor is that they are competing with each other to see who can come up with the silliest conspiracy theory - it was a mini nuke, no - it was pod carrying aircraft firing missiles, no - it was holographic aircraft, no - it was silent explosives, no - it was nanoo nanoo thermite, no - it was a beam weapon and of course we must not forget the old classic - IT WAS THE JEWS!

I too wish more people would actually spend time performing physical experiments.

Yes, just like this one!

reply to post by dereks


Hey! When all else fails, blame the Jews!
It's worked for centuries!
I just love the holographic, the no plane, missle pd, etc "theories". It's insane that people could believe those outlandish things, yet find it impossible that 19 highjackers could be responsible!
But after all, I'm sheeple, a disinfo bla blah blah.....maybe even....a Jew!

Originally posted by exponent
For example, do people still adhere to the idea that the fires did not reach ~1000C at ceiling levels? We could easily come up with experimental criteria to test this, NIST already have done so in fact so we could just steal theirs, but that is the sort of discussion I want to have.

Of interest is the maximum value which is fairly regularly found. This value turns out to be around 1200°C, although a typical post-flashover room fire will more commonly be 900~1000°C. The time-temperature curve for the standard fire endurance test, ASTM E 119 [13] goes up to 1260°C, but this is reached only in 8 hr. In actual fact, no jurisdiction demands fire endurance periods for over 4 hr, at which point the curve only reaches 1093°C

www.doctorfire.com...

(And no that is not a 'truther' site, or a damned fool conspiracy site)

WTC 2 fell after an hour of fire, not enough time to reach 1000C. But regardless room temperature does not indicate steel temperatures. The steel itself will not reach the same temp as the room until equilibrium is reached and ALL the steel that's connected is uniformly heated, as the heat spreads through the steel effectively cooling the hot spots.

Plus you still have 80+ floors that were not weakened by fire, or any damage, that should have easily resisted the its own collapse as that is what is was designed to do.

As far as WTC 7, well the fire temps are irrelevant as no fire can cause a building to fall into its own footprint.

Originally posted by ANOK
(And no that is not a 'truther' site, or a damned fool conspiracy site)

WTC 2 fell after an hour of fire, not enough time to reach 1000C. But regardless room temperature does not indicate steel temperatures. The steel itself will not reach the same temp as the room until equilibrium is reached and ALL the steel that's connected is uniformly heated, as the heat spreads through the steel effectively cooling the hot spots.

That's not actually true, but it's not too far off. Still, shouldn't you be interested in the actual fire temperatures from that day? I'm trying not to make this a thread for debate, rather for a thread to come up with concrete ways for the truth movement to move forward. Ideas that need to be formulated, experiments that need to be done etc. Can you help with this?

reply to post by dereks


So are we still in agreement that neither of us have proof of what brought down the WTC Towers at this point?


Saying you have proof is one thing... that is quickly refuted by the fact that you can post none.

Originally posted by OldDragger
I just love the holographic, the no plane, missle pd, etc "theories".

Of course you do. Because then you can just act incredulous of everything except the official story and pretend like it makes more sense.

Like I said, I never see you on the more technical threads. You just look for good opportunities to rant off apparently. That's okay though, my grandparents do the same thing but I still love them despite all their outdated perspectives on world politics.

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by ANOK
(And no that is not a 'truther' site, or a damned fool conspiracy site)

WTC 2 fell after an hour of fire, not enough time to reach 1000C. But regardless room temperature does not indicate steel temperatures. The steel itself will not reach the same temp as the room until equilibrium is reached and ALL the steel that's connected is uniformly heated, as the heat spreads through the steel effectively cooling the hot spots.

That's not actually true, but it's not too far off.

And....

It's easy to tell someone they're wrong, but when you have no explanation of why then its kind of meaningless.

Still, shouldn't you be interested in the actual fire temperatures from that day? I'm trying not to make this a thread for debate, rather for a thread to come up with concrete ways for the truth movement to move forward. Ideas that need to be formulated, experiments that need to be done etc. Can you help with this?

Why would the fire temperatures from that day be any difference to what is typically found?

In Engineering there are known facts that are used when designing mechanical structures, such as fire temperatures. They are predictable because they don't change. Every known object can only reach a certain temperature before it can no longer burn. Temperatures do not just keep increasing regardless of how much fuel there is.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by OldDragger
I just love the holographic, the no plane, missle pd, etc "theories".

Of course you do. Because then you can just act incredulous of everything except the official story and pretend like it makes more sense.

Like I said, I never see you on the more technical threads. You just look for good opportunities to rant off apparently. That's okay though, my grandparents do the same thing but I still love them despite all their outdated perspectives on world politics.

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How DARE I comment.
No, you don't see me on techinical threads because I don't pretend I'm an engineer, architect or expert like the rest of you do. You get all your "facts" by websurfing.
PLUS the 9/11 threads are full of insufferably self righteous and hostile windbags!
NEWS FLASH! I'll comment when I choose!