More Iraqi civilians SLAUGHTERED Than 9/11 Victims...

Source


So let me ask, was it worth invading two countries? In my opinion, absolutely not.

wow, some very alarming numbers
on that link. And no it is not worth it.
Our military invaded based on a lie
and the killing continues.

Now the question we have to ask ourselves is:

would it have been similar body counts in Iraq
and Afgh if we had never invaded.

I'd like to see these numbers compared to
the 10 yr span before the invasions.

Woah, those numbers are crazy... I read... not sure now the source but it indicated larger numbers of Iraqi civilian deaths somewhere in the order of 1.75 million.. Regardless of the numbers though there's no excuse for any civilians dying in a war with no clear enemy, or a clear reason for occupation.


S&F for this one.


Found:Wiki link

Source Iraqi casualties March 2003 to...

Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 deaths June 2006

Lancet survey 601,027 deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths June 2006

Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict August 2007

Associated Press 110,600 deaths April 2009

Iraq Body Count project 95,888 — 104,595 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict April 2010

Hhhmmmmm.....

Originally posted by boondock-saint
wow, some very alarming numbers
on that link. And no it is not worth it.
Our military invaded based on a lie
and the killing continues.

Now the question we have to ask ourselves is:

would it have been similar body counts in Iraq
and Afgh if we had never invaded.

I'd like to see these numbers compared to
the 10 yr span before the invasions.

The government Iraq had before we removed it was indeed a brutal one. Uday, Saddam's son, raped whoever he wanted and tortured the entire Iraqi soccer team for losing a game. But don't forget, even his father had him jailed

Saddam was an interesting figure. He was terrified of germs and went fishing by throwing grenades in the water. His military even had a suicide bomber sector..that's right, his own personal suicide bombers who were willing to blow themselves up in the name of their country, religion and dictator. Kind of makes you think if they took place in many of the suicide attacks that plagued Iraq after we invaded....

Saddam did a lot of good for the country of Iraq and at the same time, did a lot of harm to the citizens. He even used his people as human shields at one point.

But comparing his body count ours? The US military knocked Saddam out of the ballpark.

Big bombs dropped from planes do that - don't they. No discrimination.

And the civilian who made it her mission to count civilians deaths was killed. Imagine that.

Iraq Body Count www.iraqbodycount.org...

I find it funny that a few facts are left out in this. First the 9/11 deaths were in one fell swoop. The war deaths took time.[years actually] Second off civilian deaths are chalked up to the US and not separated by "friendly fire" or collateral to a suicide bombing. That makes a bit of difference don't you think? This is like comparing apples to oranges. A building as opposed to countries in this case. Yes I can understand the dismay at the loss of life but be careful of how you try to express it. This kind of thing reeks of a agenda. [I'm not claiming it as your agenda mind you]

reply to post by hangedman13


Yes, the Iraqi civilians deaths took place over a few years. However, was it worth it? Was slaughtering over 300,000 people really avenging what happened on 9/11? Hell no.

Would the suicide attacks in Iraq have happened if we didn't stick our noses in there? Nope, they wouldn't. Would innocent people be napalmed, Americans beheaded, British beheaded, or children blown apart if we didn't go in there? No.

Do the pics not work for anyone else? I can't edit the post (thanks ATS)


2nd line

Originally posted by hangedman13
I find it funny that a few facts are left out in this. First the 9/11 deaths were in one fell swoop. The war deaths took time.[years actually] Second off civilian deaths are chalked up to the US and not separated by "friendly fire" or collateral to a suicide bombing. That makes a bit of difference don't you think? This is like comparing apples to oranges. A building as opposed to countries in this case. Yes I can understand the dismay at the loss of life but be careful of how you try to express it. This kind of thing reeks of a agenda. [I'm not claiming it as your agenda mind you]

Funny?

Deaths happened over a period of time. So?

Ridiculous attempt at justification.

Well considering that war isn't nice and clean like people like to think yea I find it funny. Look at the total deaths during Normady and tell me public perception is different. Hey people die from anti-aircraft fire when what goes up inevitably comes down. Actually if we had not invaded, the people of Iraq would get to spend time in Hussien's prisons and maybe been a play thing to his son Uday before they were taken to their grave site and shot. Or would it have been easier on the conscience if the people just disappeared and no one knew [or cared] ?? How mant mass graves were dug up???

reply to post by hangedman13


I must have not read your post correctly. Did you just make the argument that the people are better off because they were killed by Americans instead of Saddam's sons?

Originally posted by hangedman13
Well considering that war isn't nice and clean like people like to think yea I find it funny. Look at the total deaths during Normady and tell me public perception is different. Hey people die from anti-aircraft fire when what goes up inevitably comes down. Actually if we had not invaded, the people of Iraq would get to spend time in Hussien's prisons and maybe been a play thing to his son Uday before they were taken to their grave site and shot. Or would it have been easier on the conscience if the people just disappeared and no one knew [or cared] ?? How mant mass graves were dug up???

I can't believe an ATS member would defend the illegal and inhumane invasion of Iraq...a nation that posed no threat to us.

We should never play world police. Oh wait, we don't, we only "liberate" a country if they have Oil. Open your eyes man, the Iraq invasion/war was not about spreading any kind of freedom or democracy.

Our brave men and women who volunteered to serve our nation were put in harm's way for greed. They died in the name of oil.

Originally posted by hangedman13
Well considering that war isn't nice and clean like people like to think yea I find it funny. Look at the total deaths during Normady and tell me public perception is different. Hey people die from anti-aircraft fire when what goes up inevitably comes down. Actually if we had not invaded, the people of Iraq would get to spend time in Hussien's prisons and maybe been a play thing to his son Uday before they were taken to their grave site and shot. Or would it have been easier on the conscience if the people just disappeared and no one knew [or cared] ?? How mant mass graves were dug up???

And the real reason we invaded Iraq is because Saddam switched oil from the dollar to the euro. Always follow the money.

The supposed hi-jackers were Saudis. There isn't even any connection for invading Iraq.

Because people died all at once in America - - does not diminish that 100,000 civilians died over time in Iraq. And that's just the official count.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

We should never play world police. Oh wait, we don't, we only "liberate" a country if they have Oil. Open your eyes man, the Iraq invasion/war was not about spreading any kind of freedom or democracy.

Our brave men and women who volunteered to serve our nation were put in harm's way for greed. They died in the name of oil.

Absolutely! We've known for years the atrocities that went on under Saddam - - and did nothing.

We did not go there to liberate the people.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


I am pointing out basically damned if you do damned if you don't nature of the world. What would be the nature of world events if we didn't invade the two countries? Do you really think there wouldn't be another reason found for the world to hate the US? Hell if it wasn't for the US invading Afghanastaan China wouldn't be poised to exploit the newly found mineral deposits. War is not to be entered lightly, but when you do wage it go all the way. Yes innocents die in war. That is why when at war you do what you have to to end it as quickly as possible. Iraq was more of a traditonal war at first. A actual army to fight and the ability to differentiate between them and civilians. The insurgency was a different story, no over arcing structure of attacks and leadership. Hard to stop because of it. One cell of insurgents did not necessarilly work with let alone know another. What actually is a war needs to be clairified. Politicians used the term so much it's meaning has been muddled. The wars in recent years have been more police like in since the invasions were deemed over. Now they are a matter of protecting the newly claimed spots.

I keep hearing this oil excuse for the invasion but I fail to see where any one in the states got rich off of it. As for the legality, well how many other countries share the guilt by association? The intelligence being faulty doesn't fly too well because. First we were told the same intelligence was possessed by the previous administration of the US and some allies. Then it was redacted after nothing was found? Do you really think we the public know anything about what information is known by our leaders? Can you think of any reasons why any of our leaders would not tell us things???

I saw a few sources with higher estimates than that 2 years ago.... But I guess once you start to get around a million what's another several hundred thousand?

reply to post by hangedman13


Turn off your television.


That's all I have to say to you.

Good luck in life.

This is terrible.

There has to come a point where the Americans stop using 9/11 as the justification for their imperialist policies and actions.

But I fear that won't happen.

9/11 has become the benchmark to set everything against. It matters little if loads of people die or something terrible happened, because it wasn't 9/11 and it didn't happen to Americans.

Originally posted by hangedman13
Actually if we had not invaded, the people of Iraq would get to spend time in Hussien's prisons and maybe been a play thing to his son Uday before they were taken to their grave site and shot. Or would it have been easier on the conscience if the people just disappeared and no one knew [or cared] ?? How mant mass graves were dug up???

It may be in your interests to explore this further, and look at what happened when the US and UK helped overthrow the democratic government in Iran in 1953, including the CIA training the infamous SAVAK secret police, before spouting such santimonious claptrap.

Might also be worth your while looking at how the US supplied Iraq with various gas and other weapons and encouraged him to wage war against Iran - a war that cost millions of lives on both sides.

Furthermore, you should really look at the real reasons for this needless war and occupation that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives (if not millions) and displaced at least 5 million people.

reply to post by hangedman13


I can't agree with your take on this.

The 9/11 attack was a building, yes. It happened on one terrible day. After that, the country was able to start to grieve and begin the recovery process, and look how much it has scarred the natnional psyche.

In Iraq, for Iraqi people, they have been experiencing the horror of mass bombings on a bigger and worse scale than 9/11, for several years now, with all the mental terror, mass loss of life and total disruption to even the most basic of amenities.

9/11 was the catalyst for the invasion of Iraq, it created the fear-filled mind set which facilitated a belief in the lie of WMD.

As such, we must compare the two, because they are directly linked - cause and effect - problem and solution.

The terrifying horrors inflicted on the Iraqi people for all these years, simply cannot ever be justfied, We have wrecked their country and wrecked millions lives. The number of civilian deaths is terrible. The number of people whose lives have been destroyed is in the millions, and is barely every mentioned.

So, yes, I believe there is a danger which I believe we must be very careful of, and the danger is that some people will seek to attenuate the unimaginable horror which has been inflicted on Afghanistan and Iraq, neither of which were responsible for 9/11, by the untenable rationalision that somehow the figures aren't as bad as they seem when compared to 9/11 because the mass murder in Iraq has been going on for years and didn't happen in one day. IMO that makes it much, much worse and doesn't attenuate it one little bit.

And an agenda? Yes, I have one. We should stop this mass murder and pillaging and get the hell out of these countries, and beg forgiveness.


So, 'Was it worth it?'

The question is a non starter. All these atrocities were carried out by the same perpetrators. Those responsible for the 9/11 mass murders are the same people who are commiting mass murder in Afghanistan and who are guilty of the mass murder in Iraq. These same people are giving unconditional financial, political and military support to the country which is also carrying out mass murder in Palestine.

These same people are carrying out mass murder in the Gulf of Mexico, as millions are becoming ill, bleeding internally, from the chemical warfare which is being waged against them...in the name of Corexit (Core-Exit).