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Feminism: Destroying the Male and Female Relationship

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posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Whiffer Nippets
 


Which points of view would you like us to consider? How about this one, tell me, why do people think it's wrong for a man to stick his penis in another mans butt? I mean, why do some people consider this wrong to do? I mean, of course you don't want to be caught without your gas mask if you come across these people in a hotel room or anything like that, don't get me wrong, I'm just wondering why people think it's so wrong to do?

And what's wrong with woman having sex all the time, fornicated like a rabbit, getting pregnant and then having abortions to terminate the pregnancy, and having affairs like they do on TV, and like they do in the magazines, what could possibly be wrong with this? Isn't this a good thing for woman? Now they can fornicate just as good as the men ever did, and maybe even better? Is it that some men are just jealous of all this fornication and wish they could do the same?

Hmmmm, good points to consider to be sure.........Is this the kind of other viewpoints you were referring to?

David




posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by maria_stardust
You do realize that...

''While ''men should be men'' and ''women should be women'', this is more a philosophical approach,''

...is the antithesis of...

''and we should try to break down as many gender roles in society as possible.''


Not at all.

I've clearly differentiated between the personal philosophy of ''men should be men and women should be women'' and the all-encompassing logical approach of societal equality, which should be based upon as few stereotypes and predesignated roles as possible, whether that be gender, race, sexuality etc.


I personally believe that it's not particularly feminine for a woman to serve on the frontline in the army, but, - and it's a big ''but'' ( big but(t) ? that reminds me of the feminists that I know. LOL ) - if a woman is equally as capable of serving on the frontline, and that she earned her place on merit, then society should not look negatively upon her ( eg. ''that's a man's job, old boy !'' ).


The main problems in any society largely stem from opinionated people thinking that their own personal philosophy should be implemented upon society as a whole.

I'll admit that I'm as opinionated as the next man ( sorry, ''next person''
), but I can differentiate between a subjective personal philosophy and a broader objective philosophy.


Personally, I dislike the fact that some ''ladies'' try and act like men by swigging pints, being loud, swearing like a navvy, publicly farting, and other such traditionally male behaviour. I also dislike the fact that some straight ''men'' pluck their eyebrows, dislike sport, and walk around carrying a handbag ( sorry, ''man-bag'' ).

That is my personal view, but it doesn't interfere with the fact that all the behaviour I mentioned above doesn't harm anybody else - except, perhaps, for the farting
- and consequently I think that society, as a whole, should not negatively judge somebody because they don't conform to traditional gender stereotypes.


Originally posted by maria_stardust
Whereas...

''a modern, civilised society, which should be based on equality''

...is the one of the primary goal of the feminist movement.


LOL.

Yeah, of course.

Just like a group of white people forming a political and social movement called ''Caucasianists'', and then claiming that they were striving for racial equality.

In fact, I think that I've probably just given the KKK a good idea for an ''image rebranding''.



Feminists and racial supremacists are identical; although, at least the knuckle-dragging racial supremacists are open about what they stand for; unlike the feminazis.



Originally posted by maria_stardust
All this gender bashing has put me off my tea.


The feeling is mutual, love.


edit on 2-1-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Similarly, some folks believe that civil rights activists against segregation were bitter, twisted people who have a deep-seated dislike, distrust or hatred of white people.


Apples and oranges.

It can be demonstrably proven that black people were treated as second-class citizens in the US, pre 1970s, both legally and socially.

Any bitterness that black people may have felt against the relevant authorities was pretty much justified.


Now please inform me how women are socially or legally discriminated against in Western countries, in 2011 ?


Your link between the treatment of black people - and the obstacles that they had to face - in the USA before the 1970s, and the treatment of women in the 2010s, seems not only unnecessary, but extremely crass and flippant.



Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Of course both generalizations, like all generalizations, are pure nonsense. There are bitter twisted people in every group in this world, using them as a pretext to marginalize feminism is flawed reasoning.


I strongly object to generalisations, too.

But seeing as feminists are akin to racial supremacists, I have no objections in making sweeping statements about their character and ''issues''.

I'm sure some of those KKK and Black Panthers members are ''great'' people, and shouldn't be generalised or painted with a broad brush.



''Flawed reasoning'' ? LOL.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:29 PM
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If men spent more time trying to control their own gender and what it is doing to the world and less time trying to control what women do, which in the big scheme of things isn't much, the world would be a better more peaceful productive place.

edit on 2-1-2011 by Flighty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Your link between the treatment of black people - and the obstacles that they had to face - in the USA before the 1970s, and the treatment of women in the 2010s, seems not only unnecessary, but extremely crass and flippant.


Mmm, is that so?
Perhaps the disconnect is due to the fact that you apparently believe that African Americans' struggle for equality somehow magically ended 'before the 1970s' hence your inability to appreciate the parallels between the two ongoing struggles.


I strongly object to generalisations, too.

But seeing as feminists are akin to racial supremacists ...

I see.

edit on 2 Jan 2011 by schrodingers dog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Flighty
If men.....


And how does that help anything? This is getting like a Republican/Democrat pissfest. If you're cool with an extremist view all I can do is point out the obvious. Newton's 3rd Law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by maria_stardust
Without this movement do you think domestic violence shelters for women and their children would exist?


Of course. A safe-haven for abused women and children would be a necessity in any civilised and empathetic society. Sorry, but feminism wasn't needed for this one.

Also, what about the shelters for male victims of domestic violence and their children ?
Did you forget to mention that one ?


Or are you just being intellectually dishonest, and pretending that a lack of shelters for abused people wasn't due to any imagined sexism or misogyny, but rather to do with a general shift in societal attitudes towards this issue.


Originally posted by maria_stardust
Or that court systems would demand that men support the children they father?


LOL.

I've proved my point many times over on this issue, but I think that it was on another thread, and I don't want to derail this thread by addressing this point in detail.


Originally posted by maria_stardust
Or that women would be able to earn a livable wage to help support their families?


Seriously, what decade are you living in ?


When was the last time that a woman wasn't able to earn a liveable wage ? 1970s ? 1960s ? 1950s ?

In case you missed it a couple of days ago: it's 2011.


Originally posted by maria_stardust
In a perfect world there wouldn't be any need for the feminist movement. But we don't live in a perfect world and such needs do need to be addressed.


In a perfect world, women who are - shall we say - not traditionally attractive, and women who have had bad experiences with men, would come to terms with this; not use these facts as an outlet for misandry, prejudice, discrimination, and an attempted justification to not face up to their own responsibilities.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Whichever way we look at it I a very suspicious about drawing parallels between the black movement and feminism. simply because one is ten times older than the other.

The problem that both face is that there are broad movements and the media and our minds tends to focus on the extreme examples of each which can certainly lead to flaws in reasoning.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Mmm, is that so?


Yeah, of course it is; I just said so.


Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Perhaps the disconnect is due to the fact that you apparently believe that African American's struggle for equality somehow magically ended 'before the 1970s' hence your inability to appreciate the parallels between the two ongoing struggles.


Right.

What ''ongoing struggles'' ?

Please tell me, in what way, any racial, gender or religious group is discriminated against in general Western society ?


I've already pointed out the fact that some fire training physical tests are weighted in favour of women, clearly discriminating against a man who may be more suited for the job.

I've also pointed out that a 5' 2'' basketball player with the talent of Michael Jordan will never make the same amount of money as a player of similar ability - who is one and a third feet taller - because of his genetic make-up ( which is obviously beyond his control ).

Yet, some tenth-rate talentless ball-bashing woman can earn as much as Rafael Nadal or Roger Federer, just because she happened to be born with female genetics ?


I've outlined two examples where men are demonstrably discriminated against, so now the ball is in your court ( LOL. excuse the pun ).

Please provide me with a relevant scenario in a 2011 Western society, where a woman is discriminated against, or where someone is discriminated against because of their race or ethnicity.


Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I see.


You should do. I spelt it out clearly enough.


edit on 2-1-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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Well there is still racial hatred hatred and gender hatred which still leade to discrimination. I have heard what is discussed behind closed doors in office and locker rooms. I think those who are by accident of birth are born neither female or black really could find a painfull eye opening to walk around in the shoes of others.

Things have got better however. Much better.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by tiger5
Things have got better however. Much better.


My point exactly. Can I quote you?



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by DavidLV
 


Friend, you are over focused on the extremes. Seek some new lines of thought. I believe you said you were a religious person? Your Pastor or Minister can give you more insight, and is someone to talk to. I am Jewish so I might seek the advice of the Rabbi or the ladies at the Minyan. Whatever religion you are, or if you are not, there are people to talk to.

You don't have to feel as you do. People are no where near as bad as you imagine (some are, sure) -But there are good people out there, and positive thoughts / ways of thinking - you need to find these people to lead you back to the light. You can do it on your own, too. There's a wealth of positive thought here in the religion forums as well.

I do think you'd benefit from some one on one counseling too.

I mean all this in a positive way.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


So out of my whole post you decide to quote...."if men"??

Says it all really.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by tiger5
Whichever way we look at it I a very suspicious about drawing parallels between the black movement and feminism. simply because one is ten times older than the other.


It's also apples and oranges.

As far as I'm aware, women weren't prohibited from drinking from the same water fountains as men, nor did they have to sit on a certain seat on the bus.

They weren't regularly lynched in extra-judicial processes or kangaroo courts.


I find the suggestion by some posters, attempting to link the ''feminist movement'' with the black rights movement, to be obnoxious and unimaginably flippant.

edit on 2-1-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Flighty
reply to post by intrepid
 


So out of my whole post you decide to quote...."if men"??


Hey, it's your analogy. I just pointed it out.


Says it all really.


Yes, it does.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


By any chance would you be Jewish? Because typically it's the Jews who think this way. You see, it's really these Jewish woman who hate men, and they go around pretending like their normal like you and I and then disguise themselves within message boards like this one and their whole entire agenda is to brainwash, and further their goal of serving their god, the god who loves all people, including the homosexuals, the bi-sexuals, the child sex addicts, everyone, all people everywhere, no matter who they are, this is the god whom they worship......

Why do these Jewish woman do this? Well it's very simple, since the Jews would not obey God over and over again, without end, and actually became worse then all the other people, sinning and getting people to sin, and then when God sent his Christ and they rejected him and killed him, God then turned them over to Satan, to be his people.

These Jewish women who love Feminism, and have worked their ways into the minds of everyone that they can, through their books, through their articles, and even their message boards, and turned people away from the logical truth, and perverted their minds to believe a lie, with the same motif as needing a Department of Homeland Security because some guys with sandals on pose a threat to the most powerful country the world has ever seen by a thousand times.....

These people know what they're doing, and they know it's wrong, they do it because they love to do it, they love to pervert the Gentiles and their minds, and their god gives them the rewards they want so badly.....

David



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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The whole idea, and the movement, of feminism is based upon a lie. Or should I say, a ''half-truth''.

Due to the revisionist history that is religiously trotted out by the feminazis and some of the naive followers to this movement, you would think that women were oppressed in days gone by; well, that is only half true.

The truth of the matter is that men and women were equally oppressed by society's narrowly-defined gender roles and expectations. Men were equally as oppressed as women.


The feminist myth that women were solely oppressed decades ago is the single biggest lie in recent decades.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Flighty
reply to post by intrepid
 


So out of my whole post you decide to quote...."if men"??


Hey, it's your analogy. I just pointed it out.


Says it all really.


Yes, it does.


For those who might have missed it here is the whole of my post...


If men spent more time trying to control their own gender and what it is doing to the world and less time trying to control what women do, which in the big scheme of things isn't much, the world would be a better more peaceful productive place.


I guess Intrepid feels that men shouldn't control their own gender and all the world troubles that they are perpetuating...seeing as he/she has a problem with what I said.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by DavidLV
reply to post by intrepid
 


By any chance would you be Jewish? Because typically it's the Jews who think this way. You see, it's really these Jewish woman who hate men, and they go around pretending like their normal like you and I and then disguise themselves within message boards like this one and their whole entire agenda is to brainwash, and further their goal of serving their god, the god who loves all people, including the homosexuals, the bi-sexuals, the child sex addicts, everyone, all people everywhere, no matter who they are, this is the god whom they worship......

Why do these Jewish woman do this? Well it's very simple, since the Jews would not obey God over and over again, without end, and actually became worse then all the other people, sinning and getting people to sin, and then when God sent his Christ and they rejected him and killed him, God then turned them over to Satan, to be his people.

These Jewish women who love Feminism, and have worked their ways into the minds of everyone that they can, through their books, through their articles, and even their message boards, and turned people away from the logical truth, and perverted their minds to believe a lie, with the same motif as needing a Department of Homeland Security because some guys with sandals on pose a threat to the most powerful country the world has ever seen by a thousand times.....

These people know what they're doing, and they know it's wrong, they do it because they love to do it, they love to pervert the Gentiles and their minds, and their god gives them the rewards they want so badly.....

David


David,

How is this showing an act of loving God or your neighbor? Maybe walking in love is not important to you, but your words seem to indicate a love for Jesus, thus maybe you are a Christian. Jesus said the most important law was to love God and the second was to love your neighbor like yourself, that to do these two things one would fulfill the law completely. Your words are terse and show hatred of a people whom you seem to blame for the death of Jesus. I am curious how you came to blame them when it was the Roman's who put him on a cross, beat him, and killed him. It seems some who claimed to be Jews and were not wanted his death and the gentile Romans obliged them.

"They will know you are my disciples by the love you show to one another." I do think that is the primary role of a follower of Jesus. As for the diabolical agenda to pit men against women, race against race, and enslave the world, do you really think you can stop it? All you can do is speak the truth in love, and not lump everyone of a race in with all the evil planned against mankind. I do believe all the first believers for the most part were Jews. Until the ruination of the Messianic Jewish community and perversion of the truth by Constantine at the Council of Nicea, the "church" was under Jewish leadership. Granted the gentiles had accepted much of the faith, but not all gentiles. They (the political power mongers) removed all the Jewishness out of the new "church", and made it gentile. I just wonder if you would have loved the real church back when it started and filled with Jews or just the one of today with it's name it an claim it rapture preaching traditions that ignore the feasts of the Lord, and the true message of Christ. I speak to you sincerely and without judgment. I am just trying to see where you are coming from and find out if you truly blame the Jews for all the ill in the world. You might want to read my post about the Kenites if that is your thinking.

Then again, maybe I am wrong about you being a Christian, and if that's the case disregard.





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