Feminism: Destroying the Male and Female Relationship

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Umm you asked what I think a good feminist is. The artile sums it up perfectly. Plain and simple a "good feminist" wants true equality. If you have a postion would you not use artiucles to "show your belief. I found that article and the group it came from after I came to believe in true equality. I came to those decisions based off of my own life experieinces also. And I am sure you feel that way now.
So are you saying people that believe in white supremacy never change what they believe in? People never change religions?
And my beliefs are fluid, because I realize that people in power like to use people's beliefs to increase their own power. If I see that happening it is time to change my belief. Plain and simple. This is another reason why I say you are arguing from your emotions and not with logic. I can appreciate and admit that females have been oppressed in the past, and still deal with it today. You on the other hand as I said still refuse to acknowledge that men might have some valid complaints also. In other words I can and do emphthise with women, you can not with men.

reply to post by hotbakedtater

let me ask you a question which is the better future?

men and women having true equality and both sides issues being addressed and taken care of

OR

women in power (men in the past) and men being oppressed (women in the past).......roles reversed

Where you stand on the issue shows what kind of future you are working for. The only way to have a future where all sides have their issues addressed is to first acknowledge those issues can exist.

And another partial truth that is put out by gender feminists" on equal pay

www.nytimes.com...

The bill is based on the premise that the 1963 Equal Pay Act, which bans sex discrimination in the workplace, has failed; for proof, proponents point out that for every dollar men earn, women earn just 77 cents.

But that wage gap isn’t necessarily the result of discrimination. On the contrary, there are lots of other reasons men might earn more than women, including differences in education, experience and job tenure.

When these factors are taken into account the gap narrows considerably — in some studies, to the point of vanishing. A recent survey found that young, childless, single urban women earn 8 percent more than their male counterparts, mostly because more of them earn college degrees.

Moreover, a 2009 analysis of wage-gap studies commissioned by the Labor Department evaluated more than 50 peer-reviewed papers and concluded that the aggregate wage gap “may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.”

Wow you mean INDIVIDUAL CHOICES come into play?

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I am a forward thinker, and history is backward thinking.

History is a teacher and if you understand it you can try and stop the same things happening. You have the exact same attitude of the men in the 1930's, the difference however is obviously you direct it at men and more importantly it is tinged with an underlying hatred.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I am more worried about what is happening in the present, the now, and how to make the future a better place.

What does history have to do with how I define myself?

History simply tells you what others thought in the past, if you understand the feminist movement you would understand you are not anywhere near a feminist perspective and that clashes with your definition of who you are. Therefore history can help define you if you label yourself with a concept that is steeped in history.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
And what problems are you going on about? I am not the one who has a problem defining myself or my beliefs, you do.

I don't have a problem defining you, it's really very simple to take a look at what you have said regarding feminism to realise you are not a feminist. You have taken on the name of feminism, the label because you recognise that it gives you protection from criticism of your rather unkind views.

You can call yourself a feminist but you are not one, just like i can call myself a martian it doesn't mean i am one.

More on how the lack of feminism is the more likely the culprit destroying relationships and how men need to get in touch with their feminine side just as women get in touch with their masculine side.

An example:
Of course I understand woman's stupidity and foolishness lands them in jail but on hardly as regular and dependable a basis. usgovinfo.about.com...

By midyear 2002, America's jails held 1 in every 142 U.S. residents. Males were incarcerated at the rate of 1,309 inmates per 100,000 U.S. men, while the female incarceration rate was 113 per 100,000 women residents.

www.ccky.org/.../Woman%20In%20Prison_7.pdf

“While the vast majority of inmates in the United States are men, the number of women being incarcerated has increased 600 percent since 1980, largely as a result of tougher drug laws. This rate of increase is higher than the rate of increase for men. Seventy percent of female inmates are non-violent offenders, and an equal number have left children behind, often in foster care, as they enter prison."

When men's aggression and stupidity wind them in jail for extended stays they are sometime given a therapy to help them become more connected and sensitive. It is behavior modification to help them better get along in a hostile environment. Helps release dangerous aggression, and improves relationships on the cell block among inmates.
I suppose this would do as well in everyday life although some would say it is a somewhat "feminine" thing to do.
They give the men cats to take care of.

Well it seems like the simple-minded madmen have decided to leave us alone. Good. There is a book that has been written about what it is to be a man by a young woman who decided o go undercover and just pass herself off as man. She seems to have captured the downside of being male quite well. Many men do seem to stoically put up with things but then go on to self-medicate with booze and drugs. I think the biggest fear is being seen to be soft. Perhaps this is homophobia. I don’t know. I am heterosexual so perhaps I cannot see beyond my own orientation. I am also middle aged and am more than happy to go my own eccentric way.

Anyway my point is why does it take a woman to articulate what it may be like to be a man????? Why can’t we as men do our own work and air our experiences and put them into a and overall framework?

The thing about feminism that some do not realise is that it was also critical of certain types of women also.

All I want is true equality.

I also want an end to male/female violence.

Henry Makow is very fascinating indeed. His recent article on the fascist control of Brazilian president Lula is a must read.

reply to post by rusethorcain


We all know more men end up in prison than women. Men are obviously more prone to violent behavior, but again, the law actually pursues men for hitting other men or women, but if a woman hits a man it's not a big deal. Not that it would even dent the statistics, but I'm sure the numbers would increase quite a bit.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by mayertuck
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

How is the future going to be better if we have the same issues with people being oppreseed and only the roles are reversed?

What are you on about? I cannot predict the future, I can only do my best in the here and now and hope it reflects in our future generations.

I do not know what you mean by reversed roles??

Stop playing games, it's getting really old. This "reversed roles" idea is what 80% of this thread is about. Try reading if you want to engage in this argument.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
When men's aggression and stupidity wind them in jail for extended stays they are sometime given a therapy to help them become more connected and sensitive. It is behavior modification to help them better get along in a hostile environment. Helps release dangerous aggression, and improves relationships on the cell block among inmates.
I suppose this would do as well in everyday life although some would say it is a somewhat "feminine" thing to do.
They give the men cats to take care of.

I wouldn't call that feminine but encouraging expression of paternal instinct. Feeding a child isn't just a maternal instinct either.. would a father just let his kid starve and not know what to do? There are alot of single dads that make very capable parents.. to argue that raising children is "woman's work" really is an insult to all those men.

There are many different forms of feminism. Some seem to be equal some seek to be superior. Women are oppressed around the world. Only recently have they gotten rights in America. I am a pro-feminist male. I don't think it is destroying any relationship. I think it is improving them.

Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

We all know more men end up in prison than women. Men are obviously more prone to violent behavior, but again, the law actually pursues men for hitting other men or women, but if a woman hits a man it's not a big deal. Not that it would even dent the statistics, but I'm sure the numbers would increase quite a bit.

Half-truth in this post. The law actually pursues both. If a women hit's a man it is a big deal. Legally they are just as accountable. In my state if a man says his wife hit him she goes to jail automatically for domestic abuse and vice versa.

Maybe you were talking about socially opposed to legally?

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


The law pursues it, but when it is in front of a judge and jury, they often don't take it very seriously. And the guy would probably be ridiculed by his friends for it, so the idea of it making it to court is pretty unlikely.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
Maybe you were talking about socially opposed to legally?

There is alot of stigma in regards to domestic violence against men. As in "You mean a chick beat you up?" Ironic argument as it concedes that some women are quite capable of inflicting physical harm on men. Feminism did not effect the way women are built.

Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by Ignorance_Defier

 

The law pursues it, but when it is in front of a judge and jury, they often don't take it very seriously. And the guy would probably be ridiculed by his friends for it, so the idea of it making it to court is pretty unlikely.

edit on 28-9-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

If the abuse is real nothing will stop a victim from his day in court, the only thing I could imagine keeping a man from going through with court over DV is he is lying.

Same for a woman.

I have no sympathy for someone who allows another to abuse them then when offered with help court etc they refuse.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


That was an incredibly close minded post and utterly disregards mens position in society. Let me tell you 'tater i had an ex girlfriend attack me with a knife, and no i didn't deserve it. She had many issues and is now under treatment as she had a psychotic episode but even so i never thought to go to court. Do you know why?

1. This happened in private and i could easily see her telling a court i had attacked her.

2. I knew that even if i won i would be cast as the abuser, not officially but whispers would happen.

I walked out and dumped her immediately after that happened and her mother phoned me to tell me this had happened to her other boyfriends but that she was a good girl and could change. Skipping over the fact that if i didn't hav 10 years of self defense training i would have probably been dead.

This is why men don't report abuse. If they're a beaten husband they will be ridiculed, if they are attacked like i was they will be labelled an abuser, even without evidence.

You have no clue how difficult things are on the male side.

You know part of the problem is that people seem hell bent on taking the exceptions to be the norms. By far more men hit women than women hit men. Sure I have been kicked by one woman and violenty pushed by another. In each case I left in an instant. They were very sorry and contrite but if I had hit them back it might have been a hospitalisation. This is not a brag.

However I still believe these women were in the minority. A minority of one woman can be hell if you are on the receiving end of here violence but what is the numerical or statistical reality?????? Is this some kind of neocon debating technique to take a rare event and twist or equate it to their oponents view point so a few men getting attacked by women (which is not nice -believe me) is equated to what women have gone through for centuries??

And please do not even look at the statistics of rape, murder and sexual abuse!

Funnily enough some moslem embrace the burka as a method of not encouraging men. And still we westerners do not get it!

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


How hard was it for you to go to the police when this woman attacked you with a knife? Because if you did not care to go why should I care about the situation at all?

Your scenerio does not explain why men do not go to the police for abuse.

reply to post by tiger5


I asked my wife to read your post, and her words " bollocks, I know of lots of women that have smacked men for whatever reason, but I only know one woman that was hit by a man".

The problem is even most men don't define getting smacked as an assualt.

I have been smacked before, even got it repeatedly from one ex, and at the time, I thought it was no big deal.

However, if men don't want to report it nothing will change. It wouldn't be that hard to take a page from the feminist playbook, and "inflate" some statistice to draw attention to an issue.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


You would be amazed.

This varies greatly from region to region, so take it as it is.

Where I am from, very cowboyish attitudes prevail. If you walked into a police station and reported and attack (female attacking male) and you had no visual wounds, they would laugh you right out of the building.

However, you move one Province over, and they will take it very seriously.