Feminism: Destroying the Male and Female Relationship

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


A star for those 2 commercials posted above is mine.

So...do you have any more videos or commercials that show men in a demeaning sexist light?

Or is entire supposition/complaint based on these two?

Is that all you got for proof?

reply to post by Brood


This is the internet. I do not know if you are a woman or not just by typing on a message board with you. So just because you say you are a woman, just like I claim I am a woman, well, who knows really? So taking gender of poster out the equation we are left with facts and points. ROC's facts and points are to the most point that to which I agree. With Other posters I disagree, it is called debate.

I try not to assume anything in these types of debates.

Misogynistic groups and femisist groups both pay/have volunteer shills when these type of discussions come up.

Most of the time, if the member signs up specifically on the day of or a day after the hot topic debate is started you can count on shilling.

Neither Me nor RoC fit that bill but there are other vocal yokels who do.

Think!!

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Most of the time, if the member signs up specifically on the day of or a day after the hot topic debate is started you can count on shilling.

Neither Me nor RoC fit that bill but there are other vocal yokels who do.

Think!!

No you two just fit the exact mould of sexists. The only difference between you two and the misoyginists of the 1930's is a penis, and maybe a mershon pipe. Just calling yourelf a feminist is not a defense against some of the hateful and sexist things you two and a couple of others have posted.

Lets be clear women are treated unfairly in some areas, that's a fact i really won't argue with. At the same time men are treated badly in some areas and these areas have been raised. Yes this is a debate and people won't always agree but your utter lack of compromise and even lack of logic shows an incredibly deep bias. How about you answer these two questions, just to clarify your position for me.

1. Are women treated unfairly in some areas by men? These men being misogynists.

2. Are men treated unfairly in some areas by women? These women being misandrists.

If you can answer yes to both of these questions and agree that both sets of people should have their rights defended and treated in the exact same way then we have an agreement and hopefully this thread which is now going around in circles so fast it's the debate equivelant of a centrifuge, can languish and we can get on with something else.

Originally posted by riley
Being a feminist means just standing up fo the rights of FEMALES.. it does not prove that I hate all men which is what you and others keep implying.

"Being a Nazi means standing up for the rights of us Germans! The Jews have invaded our country, opressed us, and told us what to do! We do not hate them, they just deserve less rights than us! We must retaliate for our freedom!"

It's nice to believe that the definition of feminism is what it really is today, but let's pull our heads out of the sand and see what it's really become. Look at the two feminists that came in here and blatantly tried to hijack the thread with feminist ranting that really has nothing to do with the topic, and they refuse to even consider the real issues that these men keep bringing up. My best friend is a lesbian, she REALLY does not like straight men, but she used to terrorize women that thought like this because they are simply incapable of using their heads to look below the surface of things and it makes women look bad.

The OP title makes just as much sense as blaming the abolition of slavery for labour shortages.

Um.. what? You're pretending that the title encapsulates this entire 26-page discussion? Talk about shallow. Also, this is not a very accurate comparison at all. If black people started to get better jobs and more rights at work and people started talking about that, then THAT would be a fair comparison I guess... Feminism did a good job at equalizing women's rights... but now it's impeaching on men's rights, god forbid we talk about it.

"Oh no the wife left me because I kept beating her up it's feminism's fault the relationship is destroyed!". Lame.

"Oh no my husband wants to leave me because I slap him and yell at him when he makes a mistake, what a whiner!" Shallow, one-sided thinking.

Personally I have no interest in meeting or dating anyone who has such a narrow minded view of human beings that they incapable of judging them based on their unique charactor rather than gender.

Then stop dating feminists, what's the problem? Or were you referring to the much smaller bracket of men that mistreat their wives on a daily basis? You know, that topic that keeps coming up in this thread even though nobody here has argued against the reality of it, it's just less prominent and there are more pressing gender equality issues that we are discussing here.

A sure way of destroying a relationship would be to start imposing steroptype ideals on the other person and expecting them to cater their whole identity to suit them.

Guess 70% of married/unmarried women should stop doing that to their husbands/exes then:
"I'll hit you; don't you dare hit me back."
"I'll take the kids for an extra weekend, don't you dare kidnap our children for an extra weekend"
"I've been date raped, you got drunk and slept with some chick against your will; you jackass!"
"I'll insult you in front of company for chuckles; don't act so demeaning toward me in front of our friends!"
"I'll use my gender to get what I want (examples provided upon request); how dare you put an ad of a woman eating a burger on a BK ad!"
"I'll attack your manhood all day because I've been mistreated by men; don't even talk about feminism negatively, it affects your relationship every day and segregates genders, bu you know nothing, don't even talk about it! Misogyny! Misogyny! Police!"

Or are these not considered stereotypes/sexism because feminism has managed to embed them in the legal system?

Thats called oppression and just because someone refuses to eat crap and say yum yum does not mean they have a "feminist" vendetta against all males.

Just because it happened to females way too much in the past and still a little in the present doesn't mean it can't be happening a lot to males right now. Open your eyes, nobody here is saying that misogyny isn't real, they're just talking about how men are opressed by women in today's society too, so of course the women have to get all defensive and act like this opression is less significant... because men should be men. Sexist.

I suspect this is more about women refusing to fulfill the "mummy-wife" role because mummy's boys dont want to wash their own clothes. Take responsibilty for your half of the relationship.. blaming feminism for failed romances is a copout.

This is the same as someone saying that women are whining because they don't want to wash my clothes. It's really just stereotypical and stupid. Very few men refuse to wash their own clothes, get a grip . Even if they did, that's their problem, too bad feminism makes it all about women, because it would otherwise be a gender-unrelated problem in today's society.

---- ---- ----

So yes, I will blame feminism, not because it is attacking me at all. I am not the victim here, I'm gay. I'm simply not blind to reality because I'm not part of the situation, I see it every single day in heterosexual relationships and its pretty infuriating how much women try to trump men with their vaginas and act all gender-superior because it "empowers women" (such a gender-equal statement, btw). Now these men try to talk about it and all the women have to show up and tell them that they're the sexists? Pretty stupid, juvenile, brainwashed behavior if you ask me.

This is pushing the envelope but I find the idea presented here to be quite interesting (see below).

In nations where feminism has had the most influence in shaping social policy, and where women have succeeded in the workplace and ascended to positions of political power, birth rates of non-immigrant populations have dropped below replacement levels. The largest immigrant population in Europe, (Muslims) and the largest immigrant population in America (Mexicans) both have high birth rates and patriarchal cultures. When the family is devalued and women seek happiness and fulfillment in the working world, they have fewer children, and they have them later in life. If a population that embraces feminism necessarily ages and dwindles, as competing non-feminist cultures surrounding it grow and thrive¦does feminism work?

^ Basically implying that eventually societies that have embraced feminism will be overtaken by patriarchies (which by the looks of it are far worse than whatever inspired feminism in the first place)

Article 1
Article 2

Originally posted by Brood

The OP title makes just as much sense as blaming the abolition of slavery for labour shortages.

Um.. what? You're pretending that the title encapsulates this entire 26-page discussion? Talk about shallow.

Ooh geting personal. So I'm shallow? Cuz I didn't read through the entire thread or because I'm a woman? I started chiming in when some guy said taking a woman to subway for a date would be fair enough and if she complained she was being a hateful feminist.

Now if the OP title said "Misandry posing as feminism destroys relationships" I would agree with many of the points but 26 pages does not make the thread title less missleading or bigoted. It's a blatent bait thread designed to stigmatize feminism.

Enjoy your fishing.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Brood

The OP title makes just as much sense as blaming the abolition of slavery for labour shortages.

Um.. what? You're pretending that the title encapsulates this entire 26-page discussion? Talk about shallow.

Ooh geting personal.

So I'm shallow? Cuz I didn't read through the entire thread or because I'm a woman? I started chiming in when some guy said taking a woman to subway for a date would be fair enough and if she complained she was being a hateful feminist.

Now if the OP title said "Misandry posing as feminism destroys relationships" I would agree with many of the points but 26 pages does not make the thread title less missleading or bigoted. It's a blatent bait thread designed to stigmatize feminism.

Enjoy your fishing.

edit on 22-9-2010 by riley because: fixed typo

Remember that time that someone wrote off my entire argument because you think that I'm sexist for saying that your shallow thinking is shallow just because you're a woman? I'm sorry, you're the sexist here, not me. My claim of your shallow thinking had nothing to do with you being a woman, it had everything to do with your actions as a human being. Open your eyes. All of my friends are women, I have no negative stereotypes against women (almost all of my friends are women), I'm simply aware that the majority of women are more likely to oppress men than men are to oppress women.

This is all far too typical of feminist behavior. Use your brain to do your thinking, not your "opinions". What do you have to say about the other 52 lines of my argument? Nothing? Deny the truth much just to support the idea that you are right even though you aren't? Typical.

Wait, didn't I talk about exactly what you're doing in the post that you're attacking? You oppose me! Opression! Misogyny! Misogyny! Police!

Thank you for this reply; it only succeeded in proving my point

The truth is that the feminist philosophy is dead. It had a good run, but in the end it is fallacy because men and women are not created equal. Anything else is simply not true. I'm a man, but I've studied the text, Luce Irigary and all. I agree that it isn't a fair world and that women are oppressed by men at large. But alas, this is an argument against nature. We're primates and as such men on the whole are more powerful then women. Could've turned out that we were super intelligent black widows and the men were all perfunctory but it didn't. That doesn't preclude men from being the "stupid" ones in specific instances. We're just possessed with faculties that are hardwired into our brains that women don't usually possess that give us advantages in shaping our environs to our choosing. Women have gifts that men don't have that are hardwired into their brains. Trading spatial reasoning for double the vocabulary for example. Doesn't make women lesser than men. Just different when you look at the whole of them generally.

Even given the inherent advantages men have in our brains to handle logic and abstractions, women can still push the envelope. Look at Grace Hopper, for example. Was she as brilliant as Babbage? Maybe. Maybe not. That is a subjective question. What isn't a subjective question is the domination in the field of computer science (and every other conceivable field of any study anywhere) by men. Men push the envelope at a far greater number than women. Doesn't mean that men are smarter then women. It means that more men are more likely to push the boundaries of what is possible than women. Does that mean smarter, or more capable, or just more prone to genius? Is this sexist? Absolutely. Is this true? Probably. That's statistics. Statistics can be massaged to fit a mold but they can't be invented out of thin air.

The whole feminist philosophical argument is just philosophy, and by that extension assumes ideals that don't exist in the real world, otherwise it wouldn't be called philosophy, it would be called mathematics. Philosophy isn't hypothesis, hypothesis isn't theory, and theory is not law. Philosophy just means that we'd love to know more about it. We can hypothesize a female-centric ethos, we can even theorize situations where it should work. But the law is the law. It's not open to interpretation otherwise it would be a theory.

Here is a modern relationship


And here is the problem with it...



Of course there are misogynists on either side doing what they do best. Complaining and hating on women or complaining and hating on men.

Still keep in mind we ARE a patriarchy. This is quite revealing as to what type of society we actually do have. Women are revolting against that structure and men are attempting to keep it in place. This back and forth is natural. We should be surprised if there is no comment nor movement toward social change.
What we should hate is the pure and unadulterated stupidity and female oppression - which still exists today:

Among the normal healthy men and women there are unfortunates who either do not know where they fit in, or for some personal reason hate the other gender or sex.
These types work hard on websites and blogs like this...to set a bad example and make it appear men and women do not get along. They make noise turning one sex against the other, usually working in packs. Apparently sharing the one brain.
These folks lose their temper quickly, get nasty and resort to name calling and gender bashing.
You can easily spot these unhappy people. Just keep in mind they are not exactly "normal" specimens of modern males or modern females.
They are unnatural aberrations.....and exceptions to the rule.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Here is a modern relationship
And here is the problem with it...

That's one of the problems, yes, but not the one that this thread is about.

Still keep in mind we ARE a patriarchy.

America is neither a matriarchy nor patriarchy, regardless of what the vagina monologues told you, regardless of what some (barely any) of the men in here want it to be.

Women are revolting against that structure and men are attempting to keep it in place. This back and forth is natural. We should be surprised if there is no comment nor movement toward social change.
What we should hate is the pure and unadulterated stupidity and female oppression - which still exists today:

Women revolted against that structure and it was torn down all over the continent. Now its pressing in the other direction and oppressing man -- examples of which you've been ignoring on this thread for, oh say, 26 pages.

Among the normal healthy men and women there are unfortunates who either do not know where they fit in, or for some personal reason hate the other gender or sex.
These types work hard on websites and blogs like this...to set a bad example and make it appear men and women do not get along.
They make noise turning one sex against the other, usually working in packs and sharing a brain.
They lose their temper quickly and resort to name calling and gender bashing. You can easily sopt these unhappy people. Keep in mind they are aberrations.....and exceptions to the rule.

The only people bringing up the gender wall in this topic constantly are the feminists. And I rarely see heterosexual couples "getting along", especially when the women take harmless conversation as a gender-specific attack. I think the most popular female attitude right now is simply tolerated by most straight men, not enjoyed. Of course, women tolerate men on things too, but those issues are things that society views as wrong, when the exact same situation occurs with reversed genders, the male is still the oppressor -- that is the gender equality that feminism fights for? This has been hounded over and over and the females don't even bother to address it; I guess real issues are just too hard to think about without getting defensive and regurgitating some unrelated crap that you are programmed to say when someone "attacks" the radical ideals of feminism.

Have to say, though, this is a big improvement from a lot of your other posts -- not that that's saying much.

reply to post by Brood

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-- Mark Twain (1835-1910)

America is neither a matriarchy nor patriarchy, regardless of what the vagina monologues told you, regardless of what some (barely any) of the men in here want it to be.

Where did you get your last name?

reply to post by Brood


I have read this entire thread and have yet to run across any examples of male oppression.

Care to enlighten me, please?

reply to post by hotbakedtater


You mean things I've said? On this page alone?

"I'll hit you; don't you dare hit me back."
"I'll take the kids for an extra weekend, don't you dare kidnap our children for an extra weekend"
"I've been date raped, you got drunk and slept with some chick against your will; you jackass!"
"I'll insult you in front of company for chuckles; don't act so demeaning toward me in front of our friends!"
"I'll use my gender to get what I want (examples provided upon request); how dare you put an ad of a woman eating a burger on a BK ad!"
"I'll attack your manhood all day because I've been mistreated by men; don't even talk about feminism negatively, it affects your relationship every day and segregates genders, bu you know nothing, don't even talk about it! Misogyny! Misogyny! Police!"

Or things some women have said that prove my point?

[Your intent is to] lure women into this beer soaked, flea bitten snare - then pounce on them, aided by other like minded machismo's

Only girly men are afraid of feminists. Men need to grow a pair and shoulder some personal responsibility instead of all this crybaby placing of blame on women for their own inadequate performance in bed.

Any man that is feels his masculinity is threatened by strong women needs to do some serious introspection. Man up for Christ sake!

Let's not forget...

I believe their is a concerted effort by men to degrade and vilify the power of being female

It is the male who must control his animal passions...maybe then we would have peace and harmony
in our world...and our children would have a future.

This thread wouldn't even exist if more men really knew how to treat women and in turn got laid more.

Anyways, I'm not your hired researcher, click the numbered page links and check the rest for yourself, you're independent. However, I'd love to see these actually talked about after being brought up so often in this thread and promptly ignored as if it isn't total hypocrisy.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by Brood

 

I have read this entire thread and have yet to run across any examples of male oppression.

Care to enlighten me, please?

You have askd this uestion many times and it has been answered many times, each time with clear examples. This suggests you are either blinded by ideology or, and i'm afraid i'm leaning towards this, you are trying to make people angry by asking the same question over and over despite it being answered.

Basically, trolling.

Baked taters: There were those two commercials one of the y chromosomes put up ...(mind you I am only guessing and not convinced these were from true Y chromosomes - We may be addressing a few misogynistic, and terribly disgruntled drag queens) Still I LMAO.
But other than that not much EVIDENCE so, I guess there was never any real truth to the premise of this thread.
Shall we take our x and our y chromosomes...
(got to be some benefit in having them both , eh?) and move on?

reply to post by rusethorcain


You have not provided any real evidence for anything you have said either, all that seems to happen is people raise valid points and you call them misoygnists. Also some users (like me) have tried to meet you in the middle which btw is equality and you fail to entertain the idea. So i'll ask you the same question i ask someone else.

1. Do you agree that some men treat women unfairly? These men being mysognyists.

2. Do you agree that some women treat men unfairly? These women being misandrists.

Accept both and there is no real issue, accept only one and reveal yourself as biased. For the record i realise both are true.

What i find confusing however is how you can continually insult members and that's fine but the moment someone is even slightly critical of a woman in this thread and they are uttely out of order. The hypocrisy is astounding, but most of all you have faced women who agree that feminism has in some areas resulted in unfair treatment of men and you have simply ignored them.

However your continuing posts filled with obvious hatred do nothing but prove the points raised regarding the unfair treatment of men in certain areas to be correct. Some misandrists like yourself try and hide behind the cloak of feminism. Sadly all this does is damage the genuine feminists image and cause tension between men and women.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


No basically I still have not seen any examples of male oppression. The examples listed are not oppression.

I am trying to figure out why some posters are crying about male oppression yet there is no oppression going on.

reply to post by Brood


Those are not examples of male oppression. Those are opinions and juvenile comments on a web board.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

No basically I still have not seen any examples of male oppression. The examples listed are not oppression.

I am trying to figure out why some posters are crying about male oppression yet there is no oppression going on.

The examples show unfair treatment, unfair treatment is not equality and according to feminists inequality is oppression. What do you consider oppression? And lets be clear, we are talking about western societies here, not the disgusting way women are treated in some african and middle eastern countries.

Man and woman go for a job, the company is required t hire a certain number of women because of equal opportunity laws. The man is better qualified, performs better, gets on with everyone and yet the woman is hired. This madam is true sexism, it is inequality and it is oppression.

Friend of mine in college was talking to a girl, she made a comment about his "package" and laughed flirting, he made a comment about her breasts and quickly he was in deep trouble, inequality, oppression.

Sorry but these are clear examples of sexism and the fact you remain unmoved proves you are indeed a sexist.


EDIT

This discussion is sadly going round in circles and it's because we are debating extremists like bakedtaters, so i'll leave it there as there is no point debating a closed mind. I wish you the best and maybe someday you will release that hatred which you cling to.