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Is Quantum Mechanics A Red Herring?

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posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by 8311-XHT

But quantum mchanics has no real application.. that is why it is so easy to obscure. It's truly like a religion. Again.. I have seen real scientists and engineers debate classical and quantum physics and they get nowhere..round and round they go and nothing is ever determined.


You are mistaken here too. Quantum Mechanics does have many very real applications. All you really have to do is occasionally check out www.physorg.com and you will be bombarded with a constant flow of new advancements.

Some of the many practical applications that our understanding of quantum mechanics has lead to include Quantum Networks (communication), visible rendering of microwave fields, quantum computing, bi-location, quantum memory storage, smallest transistors in the world, and most importantly, quantum mechanics has lead to much greater understandings of how our natural world and elements of it interact with each other and that alone is priceless and its impact immeasurable.

A conspiracy like this could never be corroborated amongst the thousands involved in the field. Just like many of us have already stated; the theories proposed by your so called conspirators are all things that using the scientific method, one can investigate further. This is the nature of how science evolves. If the theories pushed by your conspirators were rubbish they would have quickly been pounced upon by the scientific community, because there is nothing scientists like more than proving others wrong.

Trust me my friend, there are many other more pertinent 'unknowns' that you could be focusing your energies on, unknowns that you might actually be able get somewhere with.

You should look in to Francis Bacon. There you will find endless rabbit holes upon endless rabbit holes.
You should start with his work on the Scientific Method.


edit on 12-9-2010 by Brahmanite because: Spelling




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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I've been saying the Large Hadron Collider is bunk for a while now. Kudos to you for having the patience to deal with the disinfo agents and all the willfully blind. I know I sure don't have the patience. I hope you get some traction with your thread here.

The key is to ask why is quantum mechanics being promoted SO hard. My opinion is that the "black hole"/ "stargate" meme they've cultivated for LHC (or Tevatron in Illinois) is somehow connected to the upcoming ("5-19-13 Expect Us" meme for after the 2012 end of the world PSYOP scenarios) Maitreya/ Christ/ aliens/ appearance or part of his marvellous "signs and wonders" charm campaign.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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www.guardian.co.uk...

This guy has had his patents messed with while applying for them..



Fuel's paradise? Power source that turns physics on its .
· Scientist says device disproves quantum theory
· Opponents claim idea is result of wrong maths
(15)
Tweet this (1)
Alok Jha, science correspondent
The Guardian, Friday 4 November 2005
Article history
It seems too good to be true: a new source of near-limitless power that costs virtually nothing, uses tiny amounts of water as its fuel and produces next to no waste. If that does not sound radical enough, how about this: the principle behind the source turns modern physics on its ..

Randell Mills, a Harvard University medic who also studied electrical engineering at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, claims to have built a prototype power source that generates up to 1,000 times more heat than conventional fuel. Independent scientists claim to have verified the experiments and Dr Mills says that his company, Blacklight Power, has tens of millions of dollars in investment lined up to bring the idea to market. And he claims to be just months away from unveiling his creation.

The problem is that according to the rules of quantum mechanics, the physics that governs the behaviour of atoms, the idea is theoretically impossible. "Physicists are quite conservative. It's not easy to convince them to change a theory that is accepted for 50 to 60 years. I don't think [Mills's] theory should be supported," said Jan Naudts, a theoretical physicist at the University of Antwerp.


continue at link




edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typo



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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Ok the first person to satisfactory answer this question without invoking quantum mechanics gets a free genius certification from me.

A light switch works by contacting two conductive plates together, however over time a layer of oxidized material builds up on these plates, this oxidized material is non conductive and should according to classical physics stop the flow of electrons between the plates, yet when you flick the switch the light still works.
How does this happen?

I can't find a simpler example of quantum tunneling then a light switch, so have at it!



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 



I can't find a simpler example of quantum tunneling then a light switch, so have at it!


Well, of course the current can travel through the vacuum density/aether known as Zero Point Energy.


edit: - and check out Ed Leedskalnin's theory of magnetism/current

---

@Brahmanite

You should look in to Francis Bacon. There you will find endless rabbit holes upon endless rabbit holes.
You should start with his work on the Scientific Method.


Great suggestion, have you read his New Atlantis?

It is very intriguing, especially because it was from the first quarter of the 17th century.

I second the recommendation into studying Bacon.



edit to add:

Also, I recommend to readers and the OP to check out Ed Leedskalnin... IMO he figured out what electricity really is.
leedskalnin.com



edit on 12-9-2010 by beebs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
Ok the first person to satisfactory answer this question without invoking quantum mechanics gets a free genius certification from me.

A light switch works by contacting two conductive plates together, however over time a layer of oxidized material builds up on these plates, this oxidized material is non conductive and should according to classical physics stop the flow of electrons between the plates, yet when you flick the switch the light still works.
How does this happen?

I can't find a simpler example of quantum tunneling then a light switch, so have at it!


I can make up an answer but I don't know if it's true and can't prove it.. but my guess is that the build up you mention likely makes the flow of electricity slightly less efficient but the electricity can still penetrate it.. think of the flow of electricity as kinetic rather than flowing water.

Or.. the coating you mention could have holes in it.. not quantum tunneling but just gaps. So it acts like a showing . or strainer?



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Thats the problem though isn't it. Most people "me included" can't actually "prove" how a lightbulb works, or even an electric motor.
There are a good few million people in the world though that do know how these things work and use that knowledge to make things , even things as simple as diodes transistors, things we use in electronics every day use the effects of different parts of quantum theory.

Most of the people that make these things seem to agree that the Quantum model that we use is at least partially correct (well correct enough to get a laser to work anyway)

I'm sure that the model we use for physics today will be refined and possibly replaced at some point in the future as new information comes along, and then people will use that model to make even more interesting things for me to buy in PC World. However suggesting a massive conspiracy involving quantum physics when you don't even fully understand how a light switch works is a little like saying "because I don't understand it, it can't be true"
It's an argument from incredulity



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Seeings as you made an attempt to answer the question you get a certificate anyway




Not meant to be an insult, just a bit of fun!



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
Thats the problem though isn't it. Most people "me included" can't actually "prove" how a lightbulb works, or even an electric motor.
There are a good few million people in the world though that do know how these things work and use that knowledge to make things , even things as simple as diodes transistors, things we use in electronics every day use the effects of different parts of quantum theory.

Most of the people that make these things seem to agree that the Quantum model that we use is at least partially correct (well correct enough to get a laser to work anyway)

I'm sure that the model we use for physics today will be refined and possibly replaced at some point in the future as new information comes along, and then people will use that model to make even more interesting things for me to buy in PC World. However suggesting a massive conspiracy involving quantum physics when you don't even fully understand how a light switch works is a little like saying "because I don't understand it, it can't be true"
It's an argument from incredulity


I thinbk the flaw in this logic is that you don't have tp udnerstand how something works to make advances. It's like when we thought the Earth was the center of the universe.. we could make a system that allowed us to navigate ships.. it was incrediblty contrived but it worked. And that is the key.. if we actually had any understanding and weren't doing things randomly then we could advance at an incredible rate compared to what we do now.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typo



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
Seeings as you made an attempt to answer the question you get a certificate anyway




Not meant to be an insult, just a bit of fun!


I might as well be a quantum physicist . haha They can't prove their theories either. haha



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


love that picture haha

but do i get one for my answer as well?!




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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You will have to take a copy of the original, I've run out of cats at the minute



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


"Is Quantum Mechanics A Red Herring?"


Good question.... Here's my take.

Quantum mechanics will NOT be the final end of scientific theories... We have evolved from superstitions, to the basic scientific method, to Newtonian physics, to Maxwellian physics, to Einsteinian physics, and now Quantum physics.

In other words no, quantum mechanics does not explain reality in its entirely.

BUT it does offer the latest bridge between our current state of awareness and pure enlightenment.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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What would be hilarious is if you were actually government diinformation specialists and were posting kitty pictures. I honestly would not be surprised by this. haha

That is probably what they do to real scientists in the scientific community that try to debunk QM too.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: added second line



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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That very same thought just occurred to me,
especially as there was a thread a few weeks back suggesting that cats were actually extra terrestrials



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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No it's not a red herring because you'd have to both localize its position, thus its shape, and its wavelength (color), thus its momentum, simultaneously. You just cannot know both of those with perfect certainty at the same time.


edit on 9/12/2010 by EnlightenUp because: I failed to localize my brain



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Don't forget the STM (Scanning Tunneling Microscope) as an example of a daily application of quantum mechanics. But wait...the STM somehow makes electrons appear on the other side of a barrier, without passing through or around it...it can't be a quantum effect, it must be magic!



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by Blazer
 


It's not magic at all, it's spooky! Just in time for Halloween.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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@Beebs
I have not read New Atlantis but do know some about it. The intrigue of the peculiar timing is what initially piqued my interest in New Atlantis.

@8311-XHT




What would be hilarious is if you were actually government diinformation specialists and were posting kitty pictures. I honestly would not be surprised by this. haha


Yeah, you wouldn't be surprised. That's right, it's not that anyone could ever possibly present evidence or sentiment that disagrees with your viewpoint, it's that they are all just disinfo agents.

If what we are doing is disinformation and we are 'agents' then I guess I am already on the side that I want to be on. If we were to pick sides and this is the basis of how we draw the lines in the sand, I would bet that you and others like you that dismiss any information that contradicts your accepted reality as the work of disinformation agents will find that you have no one on your side.

I love it when people start pointing the disinfo agent finger when things get a little heated. Especially because it expresses such great capabilities of logical reasoning and open mindedness. Even if the theories they are spouting are the most off the wall nonsense some of these people get in to fight or flight mode when their understandings or theories or perceptions are challenged and just jump straight to the seemingly most irrational conclusions simply because those conclusions account for their non-understanding without requiring any further thought.

It is simply too easy (mentally) to call someone an agent of some kind. I mean, that solution would account for so many things. Why is the world and society in such terrible shape? Oh, its all just because of this secret organization of a few people that are doing it all to everyone. I am sorry, but it is way more complex than just that. But, that is an easy answer that doesnt require much work. We dont have to investigate too much because hey, they are secret, there are hardly any records let alone admission of membership.

Same with the OP, it sounds like everything you heard about quantum physics seemed like BS to you, you couldnt wrap your . around it and it just didnt make any sense to you. You might have watched a couple videos, some maybe had some people that seemed too new age for you and so you got that association and then, maybe other videos featured some people highlighting the fact that most of it all is theoretical.
You still couldnt wrap your finger around it so, your mind formulated an answer to make itself comfortable. It happens that you seemed to be ok with that answer.

Its the same way calling someone a disinfo agent works.

I must thank you 8311-XHT, my entire team is up for a raise and promotion because of our work with this thread.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


It's too bad I don't know enough about it to question it but one thing I've always felt (not sure why) is...I do not trust Stephen Hawking. We're not even sure if that's actually him talking! And now that he's (or someone is) discussing malevolent alien life, something just isn't sitting right with me. Whose he to talk about that but better question is, why? Why bring that up if intelligent alien life is not even acknowledged yet?

I think, whose the guy in Canada?? John Hutchinson is it? I think he's on to something and the PTB are doing everything to discredit him and distracting us with all these String theory documentaries along with pushing Stephen Hawking on us.



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