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Is Quantum Mechanics A Red Herring?

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posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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I am of the opinion that the Goverment has been supressing super technologies known aobut at least since the end of World War II that they discovered the Nazi's developed -- actually Viktor Schauberger who was forced to work for the Nazis was the real genius.

I just find it incredbily coincidental that our government appears to be supressing this technology since then and physics has been a complete joke the entire time as well. No one seems to even be able to make sense of the current theory. Our understanding of gravity is completely non existent. AND current physics theory sounds more like magic than physics with all the dimensions and spoooky action at a distance etc.

What I am trying to figure out though is if we can figure out who is putting this disinfo out to the sicnetific community. This could really help us figure out who is behind this disinfo campaign and maybe we can figure out what direction we really should be going if we can determine what information is bogus. I suspect that many experiemnts that our physics theories are based on were actually falsified by large groups and completely bogus to essentially "gaslight" (mess with the heads) the rest of science. I also wonder if things like the large hadron collider are a massive red herring as well designed to support this bogus path of physics. When you consider how much money the world generates by suppressing these super technolgoies.. programs like NASA and the LHC are really chump change that are necessary to keep the game going.

My apologies if this is old hat and already discussed in depth. If so someone please point me to those threads.

Oh, my exhibit A to this disinfo campaign in science would be this guys... Jack Sarfatti... he has an elaborate scifi story involving aliens and was pushing the spooky action at a distance theory very aggressively. I think there is a whole slew of US alein disinfo agents out there. Hal Puthoff worked for the department of naval intelligence initially. Then studied science then headed the Remote Viewing program and was a proponent of Scientology which also promoted Remote Viewing. And all governemnt Remote Viewers supposedly contact aliens mentally. Hal Puthoff also headed a group that was supposed to be evaluating free energy devices.

Phone Call From an Alien
By Preston Dennett
FATE :: April 2006

UFO contact comes in many different forms.

Some people have sightings of craft. Others have onboard experiences. Some experience bedroom visitations with ETs. Others have only telepathic contact or even claim to channel ETs. But there is another form of contact that is so rare, there have been only a few reported cases. These unique cases involve UFO contact through a simple instrument found in most homes—the telephone.

As bizarre as this sounds, enough accounts have turned up to merit a serious investigation.

Jack Sarfatti is today a prominent quantum physicist. Unknown to many, however, is that he may owe some of his success to a very unusual experience—a phone call from a flying saucer. The whole ordeal began more than 50 years ago.

Says Sarfatti, “In 1952 and 1953, when I was about 12 or 13 years old, I received a phone call…in which a mechanical sounding voice at the other end said it was a computer on board a flying saucer. They wanted to teach me something and would I be willing? This was my free choice. Would I be willing to be taught—to communicate with them? I remember a shiver going up my spine, because I said, ‘Hey, man, this is real.’ Of course, I was a kid…but I said, yes.”

Sarfatti was impressed. He ran and got his friends, and they gathered together in his bedroom, awaiting the upcoming promised contact. Unfortunately, nothing occurred, and Sarfatti assumed at first that it was just a clever practical joke.

At this point, his memory of the event strangely ends. But according to Sarfatti’s mother, the first phone call was followed by a series of similar phone calls—each giving Sarfatti information that would leave him forever changed. Says Sarfatti, “My mother remembers this experience very well. It turns out that I had forgotten most of it. This was really something that occurred over several weeks. Apparently what happened, which is completely blanked from my memory but not from hers, was that I continually received phone calls, many phone calls from the same source. My mother says I was walking around really strange. She began to get worried about me. Finally, one day she picked up the phone, and she heard this computer. She remembers the voices.… She said, ‘Leave my boy alone!’ The Jewish mother talking to the flying saucer or whatever they were. And that was the end of it. We never got another phone call after that.”

While Sarfatti is unable to consciously recall the messages given to him, his pioneering career as a quantum physicist may hold some of the answers. He championed Bell’s theorem, which is based on the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky quantum physics experiments regarding the possibility that subatomic particles behave in a way that indicates some sort of “telepathic communication with each other.” Einstein felt that such a possibility was absurd. However, current experiments have proven, as Sarfatti claimed, that subatomic particles are in fact connected with each other non-locally. Sarfatti is today a leading authority on the physics of consciousness.

A remarkably similar case comes from the files of leading abduction investigator Budd Hopkins. Debbie Jordan (aka Kathie Davis of Intruders) has had a lifetime of UFO encounters in her rural Indiana home, including sightings, landings, abductions, and more. And then, of course, there were the mysterious phone calls ...

Read the rest of this article in the April 2006 issue of FATE


edit on 11-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:59 AM
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yeah, it is a red herring. i would accept the existence of ghost before i believe a word this quantum BS thing. i don't believe in ghost.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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I am surprised more people don't question the legitimacy of quantum mechanics. If it is a scam it is pretty incredible how easily everyone can be deceived.

But maybe people just don't believe so much money would be spent on supporting some nonsense theory so everyone buys in. but when there is so much money involved the money spent supporting the lie is really meaningless.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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Yep i think the positive thinking garbage is rubbish.

I think the op is onto something and hidden techs and sciience exists.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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The quantum red herring eh? Interesting thought...

It could be - but I prefer the explanation that they just don't tell us what they learned, so basically the mainstream community is re-working through the whole system that the black projects have already figured out.

So, instead of government scientists playing an espionage and subversion game with real scientists, i think it would be more plausible that they just don't tell us what they know - and therefore we make all sorts of mistakes that take time to be corrected and so it keeps us years or decades behind.

I do think you have a point about the LHC though. What a waste, IMO.

But I do think we are on the right track, simply because of the increased explanatory power that QP has over classical physics.

Some algae even uses entanglement for photosynthetic efficiency.

I think neuroscience will be revolutionized from QM.

Interesting thread,



edit to add:
For your next thread, be sure to use the [ e x ] tags for quotes - to avoid problems with the Management.


Also, do you have a link to a source?


edit on 12-9-2010 by beebs because: [mirror]THX-1138



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:55 AM
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www.theparacast.com... Phone-Call-From-an-Alien

Here's the link where I got that article. Thanks for the tips on the rules and thanks for the support on the thread!

I think your scenario of reworking through the same puzzle is definitely plausiblle.. but one thing that makes me doubt that is how little progress we seem to be making, imo. And the risk of someone figuring it out is too great for them to let happen IMO. I think they view it as a national security issue or even species/Earth security.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typo



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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You're absolutely right, OP. There is an entire secret wing of the United Nations that has been devised to actively force millions of scientists and intelligent people alike to 'believe' in an entire field of scientific study. Not only are they promulgating this "false" scientific study, but they have somehow either forced or convinced millions of scientists, students, international government reps, civilians,etc,etc into covering for "the conspiracy" by altering their lives so that their actions corroborate with the timing of thousands of scientific studies that you, apparently, are claiming have actually been fabricated.

Do you really believe that all of the studies that have happened are all falsified? Do you believe that the individuals that have been named in the published papers are being forced to participate in the conspiracy, or otherwise that they are willingly participating in it?

How else could all of the available 'evidence' be corroborated throughout time without the participation of these individuals?

While it may sound like magic and nonsense to you, there are millions and millions of people that it does make sense to, including me. In addition to this, there are millions of people performing different roles that have actually participated in and experienced legitimate research, including many that you could easily contact personally.

If this is all a conspiracy fabricated by some think tank and forced fed to society by deception then they have devised some amazing technique for promulgating this. They must be working in the astral level or in the unconsciousness of all of us because the majority of the advancement in the field of Quantum Mechanics has been borne of the autonomous ponderings and discoveries deep within individuals minds. People autonomously have a new thought or understanding of something and then figure out a way to work it out in an experimental basis. If you, yes you, come up with some idea YOU can work on it and potentially come to some new understanding. You could then present your findings to different people and potentially get funding to take your studies and research further. People do this all the time.

Are you trying to claim that every single person that has participated in any way with quantum physics studies are part of the conspiracy or being forced? Even the janitors that have simply overheard the ecstatic elation of scientists after reaching a new milestone? So, the emotion felt by people participating in these studies is borne of the excitement of promoting the conspiracy and not the exciting of advancing a new understanding or the excitement of even coming to that understanding?

This has been a perfect example of the unfortunate side of the 'conspiracy theory' community. Some people can not make any sense of something or the only sense they can make of it needs 'magic' or 'supernatural' to make sense to them. So, these people will formulate answers that fit their understanding of reality, at the sake of logic.

"This sounds like nonsense and magic to me, there must be a conspiracy." It is too easy to say that, but also apparently just as easy to forget about how absolutely difficult it would be to get the millions of people involved in Quantum mechanics to be a part of the conspiracy.

You can do experiments at home that demonstrate the reality of quantum mechanics principles, how the hell is that a fabricated fairy tale.

Use your brains my friends. A conspiracy should not always be your first "rational" answer to a mystery. Investigation should be first.

Sorry about the ranting, some people just need to be grabbed by the arms and shaken a little bit. WAKE UP!!!



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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www.spaceandmotion.com...


Richard Feynman: Quantum Electrodynamics (QED)

I think it is safe to say that no one understands Quantum Mechanics. (Richard Feynman)

One does not, by knowing all the physical laws as we know them today, immediately obtain an understanding of anything much. (Richard Feynman, Quantum Mechanics)

The more you see how strangely Nature behaves, the harder it is to make a model that explains how even the simplest phenomena actually work. So theoretical physics has given up on that. (Richard Feynman, Quantum Mechanics)


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Your right that no one understand quantum mechanics completely. However you don't have to be able to understand something completely to investigate it, that's the very point of investigating it in the first place, to understand it better.

The amazing thing about science is that it doesn't involve any "belief" the whole point of scientific "proof" is that the results a reproducible by anyone who performs the experiment in the same way as the first person.

There aren't just a few high level amazingly bright scientists working on quantum theory giving out disinformation, universities are churning out thousand of people that go and work in this field every year, hundreds and hundreds of people work at the Large Hadron Collider, (I have met one of them myself)

The idea of Quantum mechanics dates back to 1838 and the discovery of Cathode Rays (Yes the things that made your old TV work) and by 1925 it was pretty much the accepted model for atomic physics.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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I am not saying EVERYTHING about quantum mechanics is BS.. I think originally the core of it was likely legitimate and this is why it made such a great red herring. I also think that if you have people who are well respected and those people act as if they support this theory that the rest of the scientific community will follow along like lemmings off a cliff.

Just ask yourself this.. if you discovered a technology that would allow any person to go to home depot and build a device with the power of a nuclear bomb.. AND this technology would completely destabilize the worlds economy.. what lengths would you go to to prevent this technology from being known by the general population?

It also helps tremendously that we are so incapable of working at the atomic level. We are unable to physically interact with this physical world. It is very much like religion obscuring the truth about astronomy as I see it.

Also, I have been closely following a specific scientific controversy between classical physics and quantum physcics.. and there are a lot of very bright people that seem to think quantum physics is a bunch of BS and we have been going down the wrong path since Einstein made his discoveries and was hijacked by the quantum mechanics movement. I just find it incredibly coincidental.

Also.. look at Stan Deyo's line.. here he claims to know how gravity really works and claims to have worked for the US government.. is he disinfo or telling the truth or just a kook?


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typos



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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The problem though is that it is not really possible to put out "disinfo" to th scientific community, because they are able to run the same experiment themselves and check the result, this is at the very core of the way science works.

If a few government scientists say that particle physics works in a certain way and all of the hundreds of thousands of non government particle physicists run the same experiment and it doesn't work that way, then you are going to get to hear about it.

There are also hundreds or thousands of Private companies working on different physics problems for private monetary gain, why are they also quite about quantum mechanics not being valid.

If you mean that maybe a certain bit of tech is being suppressed or something along those lines then that is easier to understand.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


We are not adapted to deal with the quantum scale , we have for the longest period of our species history , dealt with `things of a certain range of size`- rocks , trees, rivers ,cliffs ,animals etc etc .. . you get the picture.

It is no surprise then that the investigation of the quantum scale leaves most lay-people confounded and even a few scientists too.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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Well gravity is the observer, and reality is at the whim of the observer, that is what they are not telling anyone.

You are right there is many many hidden technologies. Ask yourself, where did the nazi's get all of this technology? Did they decipher it? Mybe they found it? Mybe it was given to them?

Where did they find it?


edit on 12-9-2010 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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There are also hundreds or thousands of Private companies working on different physics problems for private monetary gain, why are they also quite about quantum mechanics not being valid.


But quantum mchanics has no real application.. that is why it is so easy to obscure. It's truly like a religion. Again.. I have seen real scientists and engineers debate classical and quantum physics and they get nowhere..round and round they go and nothing is ever determined.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by onequestion
Well gravity is the observer, and reality is at the whim of the observer, that is what they are not telling anyone.

You are right there is many many hidden technologies. Ask yourself, where did the nazi's get all of this technology? Did they decipher it? Mybe they found it? Mybe it was given to them?

Where did they find it?


edit on 12-9-2010 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



From what I have read I believe they got it from Viktor Schauberger and his study of nature. His big discovery was the power of vortexes. He realized they were the most powerful natural system. This was the basis of his antigrav tech and the Germans took the idea and ran with it. I think this is where science split. That discovery likely sparked a lot of new fundamental discovereis in physics and quantum physics and the understanding of gravity and energy leading to "free energy".




edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typos



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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I think your going to have to be a bit more specific as to which bits of quantum mechanics you think are made up, as the basis of it i.e. dual particle-like and wave-like behavior of energy and matter is pretty well established. There are literally millions of experiments being run to cover different aspects of particle and energy interaction. It's not like Quantum physics is one thing,

Properties of quantum mechanics are also used in practical applications especially in electronics where the scale of microprocessors etc is now getting so small that they are actually effected by quantum interactions.

If you want examples of practical things to do with quantum physics


Flash memory chips found in USB drives use quantum tunneling to erase their memory cells.



If your going to get down to what "normal people" can prove themselves then you have to discount more or less all science, most people couldn't even make an incandescent light bulb themselves .



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by 8311-XHT



But quantum mchanics has no real application..


But isn`t the science conducted at C.E.R.N attempting to understand the quantum world better . You cannot apply your knowledge with any great success until you first understand it .



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
I think your going to have to be a bit more specific as to which bits of quantum mechanics you think are made up, as the basis of it i.e. dual particle-like and wave-like behavior of energy and matter is pretty well established. There are literally millions of experiments being run to cover different aspects of particle and energy interaction. It's not like Quantum physics is one thing,


This is what I am trying to determine -- what parts of quantum mechanics, if any, are real. This is what is so nebulous about QM IMO. I would imagine it would be smart to tie in elements that do work and are useful or include things that are really unrelated.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: typos



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:52 PM
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There is applications from QM, we just have yet to adjust to it to really find the pearls inside of it.

Scroll down a bit on the ArXiv Blog and read this article:

Physicists Build a Memory that Stores Entanglement
The first quantum memory that stores and releases entanglement has been built by researchers in Switzerland.


This is a very applicable technology for communications.

And I do believe spin/torsion physics is the future. All systems in every layer of this fractal reality exhibit motion and spinning.

Which is interesting, because of course one of Thomas Aquinas's best arguments for the existence of god was the phenomena of motion.

I suggest taking a look at Dale Pond, John Keely, Nassim Haramein, of course Tesla... and more.

Here is a bit from Haramein:


And some quotes from Max Planck to sober everyone up, I just posted them on another physics thread as well:

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.



We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.



As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.


Very apt quotes from the man which the Planck length is named after.



edit to add: the other thread here:
Is physics rapidly leaving the realm of SCIENCE and RE-ENTERING the realm of MAGIC ?


edit on 12-9-2010 by beebs because: bah, forget it nobody reads these things... or do they?



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by 8311-XHT



But quantum mchanics has no real application..


But isn`t the science conducted at C.E.R.N attempting to understand the quantum world better . You cannot apply your knowledge with any great success until you first understand it .


True, but I just think this is why it is so easy to obsucre.. because quantum mechanics is really like a religion now because you can't really do much at the guantum level. You can collide some atoms and that's about it. It's truly like astronomy before we had telescopes and rockets and satellites etc. This is why it i s so easy to make it a religious debate and hide the truth just like religion hid the truth about the Earth not being the center of the universe.

Also, from what I have heard from someone in the field, there are very few jobs in theoretical physics because quantum mechanics is so useless.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



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