Westboro Baptist Church Burns the Koran and american flag (video)

Correct me if I am wrong, but...

~ Has any major Islamic/Muslim leader and their follows come out and denounce the 9/11 attacks?
~ Has any major Islamic/Muslim leader and their follows come out and denounce extremists?

~ American flag burning in other countries is nothing new.

~ Everyone has a right to their freedom of speech. Even though we may or may not have issue with this burning, the freedom of speech and expression allows such practices.

Clip:: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf Explains Why WTC Mosque MUST Be Built!

"But if we don't do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world. If we don't do things correctly, this crisis could become much bigger than the Danish cartoon crisis (over images depicting the Prophet Mohammed)

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf pretty much says, "If you don't built the Mosque, they will come and kill you."

Mosque Leader Blames U.S. For 9-11 & Bin Laden--19 Days After Attack!

The "pastor" of this "church" has always seemed like some type of con artist to me, always going in for the most sensationalistic publicity stunts that he can think of. He is either an extreme version of Christian fundamentalism gone crazy or just someone trying to get money and attention, but he certainly makes his version of "Christianity" seem downright evil and repulsive, like a Jim Jones or Rev. Moon type.

Originally posted by witness63
The "pastor" of this "church" has always seemed like some type of con artist to me, always going in for the most sensationalistic publicity stunts that he can think of. He is either an extreme version of Christian fundamentalism gone crazy or just someone trying to get money and attention, but he certainly makes his version of "Christianity" seem downright evil and repulsive, like a Jim Jones or Rev. Moon type.

I watched this video last night, and my initial reaction was "how can someone be filled with so much hate".

I thought about it all night, even still it weighs heavy on my mind. What I have come to conclude, is that this is an extreme for of love. It is a very great lesson, that can only came from a source much greater than I.

Here is why.

It is his words that unnerve us. They strike at our hearts and cause feelings of revulsion. They make us question the extent of our own beliefs. They cause us to pause and reflect on just how much we understand about humanity.

Though his message comes off as quite perverted. Don't we feel an obligation to protect even his right to express it, knowing that failure to do so, would justify our own right being taken away?

I do not know the mans heart and if he knows he has a higher purpose with his message. What I do know is his message has had a higher purpose inside of me. His expression of hate, has only made me love him more, ie. being willing to defend his right to express it.

So, in my opinion, this man is a kind of prophet. Not one I would expect, which makes me marvel at the wonder that is God all the more.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Section31
Correct me if I am wrong, but...

~ Has any major Islamic/Muslim leader and their follows come out and denounce the 9/11 attacks?

Osama bin Laden did in an interview with Pakistani press shortly after 9/11, before the "confession tapes" with Fatty bin Laden.

Pretty sure the president of Iran did too. He at least claimed that it was a cover-up.

Even the Taliban was willing to cooperate with the US after 9/11 and said they would help us hunt down OBL, but the US ignored their offer and went in guns-blazing. The US likes to put "Taliban," "terrorist" and "al Qaeda" all in the same sentence as much as possible, but the Taliban was a legitimate government authority in Afghanistan.

~ Has any major Islamic/Muslim leader and their follows come out and denounce extremists?

My question to you is, how much MSM do you listen to? Because the MSM does NOT report many things that are inconvenient to the government's foreign policies. For example they didn't report the small handful of interviews where OBL repeatedly denied being involved with 9/11, said Islam forbid the killing of innocent women and children, and that we should look to our own government or Israel for the real perpetrators. This interview is still online in many places, and there were at least 2 others similar to it from different sources.

reply to post by 27jd


Nor does he care about them. This is strictly an attempt to foment outrage. ...and brother, has he succeeded. ...and if by some fluke one of his "flock" happen to be "martyred"? So much the better from his viewpoint...it'll help sell the con. More people will send him money, join his "cause"...little knowing that he's playing them for rubes.

He's a fraud. Using our fears, and our outrage, against us. Kinda like a con man judo.

reply to post by Hefficide

You are correct and incorrect in that aspect about Fred Phelps and what all he does and state. He is not a champion of the freedom of speech. But if you look at it in this point of view, you will find that he is the champion of the freedom of speech.
It is always easier to state, when it is something that we agree with hearing of viewing, that it should be protected by the first admendment of the United States, and be under the full protection of the law. But the true test of the protection and the law is based off of what we do not agree with in the area of speech. I am one of the last people who would come to the aid of Fred Phelps and others like him, cause I do not like him or what he and others like him have to say, as I find such disgusting and abhorrent to the better of human nature, as well as, consider his message a sin against the human spirit. However, I will defend his right to say and act as he does, as that is the true meaning of the freedom of speech and our very liberty for which our laws are based on.
Our founding forefathers, when they broke away from Great Britan, and the British Empire, knew that by signing the very declaration, that they were signing a document that would be equated at the time as an act of Treason and would be a one way trip to the gallows.
We need to uphold the right equally across the board, no matter if we agree with or disagree with what is stated, or viewed in the persuit of the Freedom of Speech. It sends a stronger message around the world, that our laws are applied equally across the entire population, that a person does have the right and freedom to speak, rather than just have it down on a piece of paper as an idea that is not worth defending. In that sense, then yes Fred Prelps, a man who I pity and tend to ignore, is a champion for the freedom of speech, cause I know that if I am willing to back and defend his right to speak, then I am willing to defend the freedom of speech for all in the country, equally, no matter if I agree or disagree with the message.
And ultimately, the only true winners in this entire issue of burning the Quar'an, are the publishers and book sellers from which those books were purchased.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


I completely and utterly agree with your position - and everything that you say. It is very well stated.

My fear is that people like Phelps push things too far.

For example it used to be acceptable, even expected, that parents would discipline their children. Unfortunately a small percentage of people took their right to do so too far and now if one were to spank their child in a Wal Mart odds are they'd be arrested.

My fear is that a man like Mr. Phelps will provide ammunition to people who would seek to minimize our rights of freedom of expression in the same way that John Hinckley was used as an excuse to diminish our second amendment rights in the eighties.

He will get what he wants, this issue is relevant to humanity as a whole, it cannot be possible to have narrow reality tunnels nowadays, we are on the brink of complete annihilation by our own hand.
Hate begets hate, fear is our bastard brother, ignorance the milk we suck out of her poisonous teat.

And thus CHAOS put us all in our place in time.

I guess someone had to do it on 9/11. Seriously, no one saw this coming? And honestly, with the whole mosque thing, those NY Muslims had something like this coming to them.

Originally posted by black cat
I guess someone had to do it on 9/11. Seriously, no one saw this coming? And honestly, with the whole mosque thing, those NY Muslims had something like this coming to them.

Yes, they had something "coming to them," and it was Fred Phelps. Enough said.

Like the poster above said, hate begets hate.


If I do something you don't like, and you spit in my face in return, you have thousands of years of history that already prove this accomplishes nothing but worse acts of retribution from both parties.

Originally posted by Section31

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf pretty much says, "If you don't built the Mosque, they will come and kill you."

Do you have a link to this quote? It is not in any of the links you supplied?

Question? Has any major Christian leader been out denouncing the actions of Phelps and his brood?

I don't understand why this site is giving them the publicity they so obviously crave.

I cant help but see this burning as a deliberate attempt by" the leaders" to create a problem.A reason if you please to get the anger going,throw in a false flag event and hey presto it was the muslims reaction to the burning,perfect ..Why else is this getting worldwide attention?.This whole pathetic episode has FF written all over it.

reply to post by boredsilly


The reason why this site and others like it are giving this action so much attention, ultimately goes back to the politicians, and General Petraeus who spoke out against these actions. The really sad part on the burning of the Quar'an, is that it was not a news worthy item, just a small blip that would have never gotten that much attention. However, it became big news when the first politician opened his mouth up and spoke on the issue, thus drawing the entire attention of the world to it. Had the politicians and the General not said anything on such, and just remained quiet, then this news story would have died. However they did speak, drawing attention to it, and now it is news, and thus the entire attention of the world is now on this issue and thus it is fair game to be discussed and talked about.
The more interesting aspect of this issue, is where we are seeing where 2 different rights, freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States, are coming into conflict, and it will ultimately have to be decided by the courts where what has greater weight should be determined.
I think that ultimately, if anything that this has done, is ultimately shown not Fred Phelps in a bad light, he does that already by him self, but rather has become an embarassment to the White House and all those politicians who have spoken out about this issue. They have demonstrated, that the rights of and laws of the country are no longer representing everyone, if it is politically inconvient to them.

If you folks want to see a true "demon",then look no further.
I cannot believe people would follow such a beast.
These types of things never happen in my country.
Why are these people allowed to call themselves Christians?
The best thing to do is ignore him because he obviously wants people to hate him so he can keep on talking about how were gonna burn in hell.

I have not read all the posts yet. But how can this man get away with this stuff. I know he's an American so he's got freedom of speech, but he burned the Flag. In my opinion by burning the American Flag he's giving up his American rights. If he has such a problem with America the he should leave and see how long he lives out of his American rights I went to school with a guy that shouted "all (n word) will burn!" to a group of African Americans standing at a corner. He was charged with a hate crime and is currently in prison. So if the guy i knew got charged how can this man not.

much as these people infuriate me, i have decided to not let their silly games get to me and to rise above it and expend my energy on more deserving matters (aside from me writing this post, of course), because they will get what's coming - someday, somehow, but it's coming.justice will prevail. they have created their destiny...

23

Originally posted by The Djin
Speak for yourself matey .

By the way, did Fred Phelps appear in that film Poltergeist as the creepy preacher ?

HAHA!

I knew I'd seen him somewhere before!

Did anyone make it through to the end and hear that song based on "We Are The World" called "God Hates The World"?

"God hates the world...(you know he hates you!)...and all its people..."

Oh my goodness!!



- Lee

A tiny unknown group who are only being talked about because a Tweet went viral.

The story here is not that they burned a flag and a Qur'an, but that this is all over the news. It's the coverage in the news and the conversation on the Internet that is driving this.

I'm floored some of you seem to advocate violence. That makes you even worse than this man who is simply using this to gain notoriety for his personal gain. Yes he is bad, but anyone advocating violence against him is far worse than he is.

Reality is that he broke no laws. It's a price we pay for freedom and how hard is it to ignore him; Not hard at all.

Keep falling for those who made sure this was front and center in the news, to divide us and people deserve whatever happens.

Anyone with common sense can see he simply burned some paper and cloth. I'm not foolish enough to care. Sad so many are foolish enough to care.

As to the Muslims that care, your God, my God, does not reside on paper. When a book is destroyed, just print another. Practice what you preach if you are being honest.

I see it this way -
* Dumb man burns a book and flag.
* Even more ridiculous people than him threaten violence.

Is your Faith so weak it is ascribed to ink on paper? Is a book your Idol? Think about that. If your God lives on paper, perhaps you should rethink your ideology. Print another book, sew another flag.