Westboro Baptist Church Burns the Koran and american flag (video)

There is a lesson for us in this here situation. Perhaps this will give some of us who wonder why more Muslims aren't more vocal against radicals in their midst, pause for thought.

Here we are wondering what the best response is, ignore the idiot or loudly protest? I'll bet that moderate Muslims find themselves in the same quandry. It is not so easy really.

I agree that ignoring him and his daughter is probably the best bet. On the other hand, has keeping quiet helped to silence the Muslim extremists? I think not.

Pehaps that he only annoys while Muslim extremists kill is the difference.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
To be honest, they way they cling to evil and hatred, it actually occurred to me that they are Satanists.

When all abrahamic religions spew mostly hatred and intolerance what do you expect?

Islam, Christianity and Judaism... all the same thing with different rethoric, same message.
I think that the god of all abrahamic religions is the devil and the devil is actually god.

Having watched the video and read the posts, there are a few things that I would like to point out.
As much as the Westboro Baptist Church, and its leader Fred Phelps, may disgust people, and their actions tend to make people look in abject horror and turn away in sadness and anger, in this video he did state something that should make everyone stop and thing: You claim liberty for some and deny it to everyone else...
That above everything else, that this man and his group has done, stuck out. He is upset and rightly so, that we claim the freedom to speech and demonstrate, but one pastor down in Florida, one man with a small congregration, from a small church in obscurity, hits the world stage and now the pressure is on to deny them their right, and that is the height of Hypocrasy. While the act of burning or destroying a holy symbol is something the disgusts people, the reality is that they do such. And they other thing that does not make sense, is that when Dove World Outreach turned around and stated they were not going to burn the Quar'an, and Westboro stated they were going to, where was the outcry then? Is there such a double standard in the United States at this time frame that we are afraid to speak out against actions of some and decry against others? Is this equal in the eyes of the law and under the ideas of the country?
Fred Phelps is no stranger to the law, he does possess a law degree, and at one time, before his disbarment, was a lawyer. So the threats and FBI coming to visit him, would have resulted in a massive lawsuit against the Federal government by the WBC, and there would have been a good chance that they would have won, what would have been the public reaction then to that? They are already heading to court as it stands and sometime this year will be in front of the Supreme Court of the United States to argue and defend their right to the freedom of speech, against the family member of the a fallen service member.
Ultimately, as distasteful as their actions are, as horrible as what they state may sound, we must stand up for their rights to do such. If we do not, if we errode their freedoms cause we are disgusted by their actions and the message that they are putting out, will only serve to open a dangerous precident that will ultimately turn around and start to erode everyone elses in this country.
If you will consider the following, then it becomes apparent: If you punish them for their message of hate, and ridicule of the country, to turn around and punish them, then it opens up the door for others to follow suit, on those grounds, as the courts will often use a prior judgement to make a ruling and cite case and specifics. Are there some groups, people who have stated things that you may not like to hear, maybe yourself, that could fall under that same category?
What these to groups have done, WBC and Dove Outreach Church, may have been inconvient, and embarassing to the country, but it needed to be done to reinforce the very right that we all take for granted, and that is our very freedom, the freeom of speech, has to be protected 100% of the time, no matter what.
Ultimately, having read alot of the different holy texts, I do pity Fred Phelps, his church and all who follow behind him. According to most holy texts, in the end, it is not your fellow man that will be the final judge and decider of your fate, but it is those who one would believe to be your Creator, and in the end, it is the person solely who will have to stand there and defend their life.

and yet another burning .......www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by sdcigarpig


In my opinion Fred Phelps does not champion free speech. He mocks it. In taking it to the extreme he is not seeking self-expression, he is seeking self-promotion.

If anything, in the long run, antics like this will not expand our freedoms, they will just create an atmosphere that will allow for others to seek to detract from them.

Originally posted by KINGOFPAIN
Religion,brings out the worst in all who follow....sooner or later.

i can't wait for a world with no religion... it's not needed.... never was.. never will be.

ehhhh... that's completely no correct idea: Religions/Sciences are just instruments to run society, instrument cannot be Evil/Good -- it just can be used for something Good or Evil.

I'm sorry this may be kinda off topic, but the one thing that struck me as the most screwed up... these people pickett FUNERALS?!

Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.

Originally posted by FredT

Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny which God has sent down, in insolent envy that God of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith. Surah 2:90

Man that is beautiful. Where did it come from?

reply to post by sdcigarpig

heh, my star to you, nicely done analysis

Originally posted by SarK0Y

Originally posted by KINGOFPAIN
Religion,brings out the worst in all who follow....sooner or later.

i can't wait for a world with no religion... it's not needed.... never was.. never will be.

ehhhh...

that's completely no correct idea: Religions/Sciences are just instruments to run society, instrument cannot be Evil/Good -- it just can be used for something Good or Evil.

The problem is the extent to which it has in fact been used for evil. Some would say that the evil done in the name of religion far outweighs the good. Religious tolerance has gotten a free ride for too long because of a false notion it is about good. Its time to revise that notion and put some limits on it.

reply to post by seagull


I don't think the muslim side of extremists really cares about being sued, unlike the families of the soldiers who's funerals they protest. I'm not seeing the angle here as far as it being a con job in this case. Attention whoring most likely, but if this gets in the mainstream news the Phelps fools are going to be watching their backs. Unfortunately, I don't think it will because they don't fit neatly into the plan, or the pre-chosen sides.

This guys actually makes me think about my own emotive responses sometimes.
I'm not a violent person, and I agree in the right to express an opinion.
But, at the same time, nothing would please me more than to read a news report telling me he and his group of brainwashed followers have been slaughtered in their beds.

Hypocritical? Yes.

Natural? Definitely.

Without considering political correctness and our modern ideals, a person cast out of a society is open to attack. Many years ago, if a person in a society acted in a way that insults or offends that group of people, they would be ostracized and even punished. It absolutely wouldn't have been tolerated.

I find it astounding that a person can be arrested and charged for being naked, and yet a person can insult and offend millions of people nationally and not be charged with anything.

My mind tells me that he should be allowed his opinion and that the best way to deal with it is to ignore him and his band of freaks.
My gut tells me I'd love nothing more than to see them all strung up and slowly killed for being despicable Humans.

I'm partly ashamed to say it because I like to think of myself as a level-headed and intelligent person, but I hope this is the straw that broke the camels back, and that someone will finally put an end to his freak-show circus.

I didn't watch the video, I have better things to do with my time.

Is he wearing Jackboots and a red sleeve band while yelling sieg heil?

I'm asking because the Nazi's already did it.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
To be honest, they way they cling to evil and hatred, it actually occurred to me that they are Satanists.

When all abrahamic religions spew mostly hatred and intolerance what do you expect?

Islam, Christianity and Judaism... all the same thing with different rethoric, same message.
I think that the god of all abrahamic religions is the devil and the devil is actually god.

I had no idea you felt that way. Guess I haven't read many of your posts. People can close their minds off and refuse to see anything other than what they want to. Often, nobody else can change that. You appear to be of the "Luciferins", or Luciferians, which I categorize differently (in my head) than I do "Satanists". To me they are two different areas of thinking, although I could be wrong.

Satanists appear to be after evil aspects of life, while Luciferins do not. Satanists call upon evil for their own evil gains, unlike people like yourself, the Luciferins, who believe Lucifer is, in fact, God, and are not necessarily evil people, because they do not believe Lucifer is evil. Again, I could be completely mistaken in my thinking here.

Albeit I am not even remotely bothered as to what your beliefs are, it does bother me to see people making comments about all Christians "spewing hatred", and the like, and I am a little surprised to see you make such an encompassing and unfair accusation. There is no "all" and no "all the same thing". Surely you know this. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity have very different beliefs.

Whatever has led people to believe what they believe is often complicated, and something we won't understand unless we know the person well, if then.

But have this understanding: I am a Christian and I do not spew hatred. I have nothing but disdain for those who do. 99% of Christians do not spew hatred. People who are Christians get caught up in politics sometimes, and the lines become blurry. It's unfortunate when you must choose between two powerful influences, and struggle to make a decision about what's right. But when your goal is to do "what's right", you can usually find a compromise. I try.....all the time.

Your anger reveals itself in your comments, and that's fine also. I just ask that when you talk about "spewing hatred", that you not include "all Christians", because it is flawed and prejudiced thinking, and has no place in an intelligent person's mind.

I wanted to add that I don't know many muslims. My pharmacist is a muslim, but otherwise that's it. However, I do have many Jewish friends, and I can tell you for a fact: I have never known a single one of them to Spew Hatred. Nor have I ever heard my pharmacist spew hatred. Just so you'll know.

reply to post by wayno

The problem is the extent to which it has in fact been used for evil. Some would say that the evil done in the name of religion far outweighs the good. Religious tolerance has gotten a free ride for too long because of a false notion it is about good. Its time to revise that notion and put some limits on it.

prime problem is, tptb, more precisely, moronic clowns too lusted after Power, blasted off process that could not be controlled by'em in long-term consequences. current situation is no lack of stable religious doctrines, but just criminal & oligophrenic using of Religions for short-term agenda.

Yea, totally you old f***, your god is right and all the others that came before you are wrong, but dont worry YOU are right, you and no one else? why? because this is something you just want to hear, rather then face the inevitable, that your God doesn't exist, and our species has NO PURPOSE.

Facing such a harsh reailty, its easier to just close our eyes and pretend its all just a bad dream, we constantly fool oursevles into thinking we have a purpose, that the universe was made for us, and its occupants used as we saw fit, a reason for our existence but aside from all the self deception none is evident.

So if we crave for a purpose, let us find a worthy goal, to toss away old fueds, and leave our small planetary home, to explore the universe that "God" created, not for us, but for everything and everyone, reilgious fueds will just tear us apart, with magical thinking that men and women are raised thinking is true, people who cannot tell what is real and what is imagenary

reply to post by Nephi1337


Like the westboro bunch they do have a right but at least in this film they are not doing the
sicko 'westboro thing'.

I asked before but you probably didn't see it;
I am curious as to why in the thread title you capitalized
koran and not America?
How come? Thanks.

reply to post by Nephi1337


I could only stomach watching half of the video.
If it had been a Bible,or the american flag being
burned,this man would NOT have been stopped.

reply to post by mamabeth


He wasn't stopped here either, mamabeth.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I wasn't sure,I stopped watching when he was being
escorted away by the police.