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France condemns Castro Roma 'holocaust' remark

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posted on Sep, 14 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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I fully support what France is doing. These people are not in Shengen zone, therefore they are illegal imigrants after 90 days, and they do not own the land which they settle, which is also illegal. By law, they should be deported.

The fact is, European Union has grown to a byrocratic moloch, no longer serving its citizens, but persecuting them with pointless regulations, directives, and IMHO even breaching souvereignity and internal affairs of its constituent states. The byrocrats in EU are so derailed from average citizens and ignorant of the laws that they support illegal activity in the name of blind political correctness and pseudo-humanism, whenever someone brings out the racism card, doesnt matter that he is wrong. Its similar to Arizona in the US, in fact, Gypsies are "Mexicans" of Europe, in terms of prevalence of asocial behaviour. I dont know how assimilated are Gypies in the US, but here they are not, majority of them are asocials who just abuse the social system and make babies because of benefits and steals everything which is not chained (speaking of personal experiences).
Thank god they do not have guns like asocials in the US!




posted on Sep, 14 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo
I fully support what France is doing. These people are not in Shengen zone, therefore they are illegal imigrants after 90 days, and they do not own the land which they settle, which is also illegal. By law, they should be deported.


How can you support this act of racial persecution ?

Fine, if they want to round up people who have overstayed their 90 days, and who are from countries outside the Schengen agreement, then so be it.

But, at least they should be fair about it, and deport all people of these countries.

It'll be great next March, when Bulgarians and Romanians ( of all ethnicities ), will be able to move freely throughout most of Europe, without any persecution.

I just hope these deported Roma come back to France in six months time.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 




How can you support this act of racial persecution ?


How is this racial? They are deporting people who broke the law, even twice (illegal immigrants and illegal settlers). Of course that they will firstly prioritize locations where concentrations of those people are the largest. It just happens that they are mostly Gypsy settlements, which are largely consisting of one race. But thats not important, thats just an unfortunate coincidence.
Do you think that if there was someone of different race living illegaly among them, they would not deport him?



I just hope these deported Roma come back to France in six months time.


I hope they would settle in the neighbourhoods of those EU byrocrats, so they finally acknowledge that there is a problem with these asocials (regardless of their race), and finally start doing something about it, not just pseudohumanistically closing their eyes and blaming their behaviour on their culture.


edit on 15-9-2010 by Maslo because: add



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
How is this racial? They are deporting people who broke the law, even twice (illegal immigrants and illegal settlers). Of course that they will firstly prioritize locations where concentrations of those people are the largest.


It's racial, because the French government were largely reacting to knee-jerk concerns from some of their less intelligent citizens.

They wanted to look tough, by clamping down on these Gypsies ( who are just looking for a better life ), so they acted by deporting them.

Clearly, according to this leaked memo, they are specifically targeting Roma, and the instructions are coming from the highest level:

www.guardian.co.uk...



Originally posted by Maslo
I hope they would settle in the neighbourhoods of those EU byrocrats, so they finally acknowledge that there is a problem with these asocials (regardless of their race), and finally start doing something about it, not just pseudohumanistically closing their eyes and blaming their behaviour on their culture.


LOL.

I've just noticed your location.


No, I hope these Romanian and Bulgarian Roma come back to exactly the same camp sites in six months time, and stick their fingers up to the French authorities !

I couldn't care less whether they bother any EU bureaucrats.

Integration is going to happen, and there are over a couple of million Roma in Romania and Bulgaria that will be coming to a city near you, come 2011.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 




It's racial, because the French government were largely reacting to knee-jerk concerns from some of their less intelligent citizens.


Even if it was true, and majority of concerns wanting to correct this illegal situation came from local fascists (I suppose that is what you mean), how does it matter? If someone who is a fascist (alleged, not convicted!!) reports a crime (lets say a robbery), it should he be ignored? Dont blame the messenger.



They wanted to look tough, by clamping down on these Gypsies ( who are just looking for a better life ), so they acted by deporting them.


It does not matter what are they motives to break the law. Bank robbers are also "just looking for a better life". Does it make their crimes legal and justified?



Clearly, according to this leaked memo, they are specifically targeting Roma, and the instructions are coming from the highest level:


Yes, because Roma camps are the largest, therefore they are the priority. I dont see anything wrong with that. If someone steals 1 000 000 euros, and someone steals 100 euros, what crime would you prioritize, given that you have limited resources?



No, I hope these Romanian and Bulgarian Roma come back to exactly the same camp sites in six months time, and stick their fingers up to the French authorities !


They can come to visit. But if they illegaly settle them, they would be deported again




Integration is going to happen, and there are over a couple of million Roma in Romania and Bulgaria that will be coming to a city near you, come 2011.


Again, they can visit us, I dont have any problem with that. But if they break the settlement laws (or any other local laws), I would personally report them and they will be prosecuted.
After March 2011 they could not be legally deported, but breaking property rights is neverthless a punishable crime. If they come earlier, they would be deported



edit on 15-9-2010 by Maslo because: typos



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
Even if it was true, and majority of concerns wanting to correct this illegal situation came from local fascists (I suppose that is what you mean), how does it matter? If someone who is a fascist (alleged, not convicted!!) reports a crime (lets say a robbery), it should he be ignored? Dont blame the messenger.


Come off it !

Let's not act coy about this.

France has a number of illegal immigrants, estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands, so why act on these few Romany people ?

It is apparent to me, that it was just a show of strength by the French authorities, to placate the prejudiced underbelly of French society, who, no doubt, were trying to blame their own shortcomings on someone else, in the form of Eastern European Gypsies.


Originally posted by Maslo
It does not matter what are they motives to break the law. Bank robbers are also "just looking for a better life". Does it make their crimes legal and justified?


LOL.

You are using the same erroneous argument as the people justifying the Arizona immigration bill.

Clearly, bank robbery is a serious crime, because it affects individual people, rather than just the multi-million pound bank group that they are robbing.

Illegal immigration is completely nonsynonymous with genuine law-breaking that harms others.

Can you honestly say, that if you lived in third-world conditions, that you wouldn't go somewhere else to seek a better life ?

Come on man, where's your humanity ?


Originally posted by Maslo
Yes, because Roma camps are the largest, therefore they are the priority. I dont see anything wrong with that. If someone steals 1 000 000 euros, and someone steals 100 euros, what crime would you prioritize, given that you have limited resources?


Why do these camps have to be identified by the ethnicity of their inhabitants ?

This is the fundamental problem, here.

If the French authorities were indiscriminately rounding up Romanians and Bulgarians from all around the country, then I could understand that, from a practical level.

They are specifically targeting an ethnicity within immigrants from these two countries, though, and there lies the problem.


Originally posted by Maslo
They can come to visit. But if they illegaly settle them, they would be deported again


No, my understanding is that in March 2011, Romania and Bulgaria will be just another country that abides by the Schengen agreement.

I don't think there's any way to ''deport'' someone, under this arrangement, although I may be wrong.


Originally posted by Maslo
Again, they can visit us, I dont have any problem with that. But if they break the settlement laws (or any other local laws), I would personally report them and they will be prosecuted.
After March 2011 they could not be legally deported, but breaking property rights is neverthless a punishable crime. If they come earlier, they would be deported


Thanks for clarifying that.

That was my understanding too; that people can't be deported to their home country, if their country is a participant in the Schengen Agreement.

As for ''personally reporting them'' for breaking settlement laws, then I'd say you're a grass and a NIMBY, if you did that.



posted on Sep, 15 2010 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 




Let's not act coy about this. France has a number of illegal immigrants, estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands, so why act on these few Romany people ?


Because they are easier to find? If you have illegal imigrants dispersed between legal population, its hard to determine them. But if they are condensed on one place, even breaking the law to notice the authorities of their presence, its just screaming at them and they cant ignore it. That would be not lawful, they have a duty to fight the crime when they notice. If people advised them of illegal activity and they would not respond according to law, THEY could be prosecuted.



It is apparent to me, that it was just a show of strength by the French authorities, to placate the prejudiced underbelly of French society, who, no doubt, were trying to blame their own shortcomings on someone else, in the form of Eastern European Gypsies.


Considering that the immigrants are abusing their social system and do not provide anything in return (just increased criminality), they are at least partially right.




LOL. You are using the same erroneous argument as the people justifying the Arizona immigration bill. Clearly, bank robbery is a serious crime, because it affects individual people, rather than just the multi-million pound bank group that they are robbing. Illegal immigration is completely nonsynonymous with genuine law-breaking that harms others.


It puts additional strain on social security system and law enforcement, therefore it ultimately afects quality of life of local residents in negative way.



Can you honestly say, that if you lived in third-world conditions, that you wouldn't go somewhere else to seek a better life ? Come on man, where's your humanity ?


I probably would, but maybe not illegally. And if I was really poor, I would probably steal to survive, too. Does this mean we should make stealing legal? No. Laws should enforce what is better for the society as a whole, not what is better for some subgroup of society, but ultimately worse for all (even that subgroup).



Why do these camps have to be identified by the ethnicity of their inhabitants ? This is the fundamental problem, here.


Since majority (almost all) of their residents is of one ethnicity, the question is "why not"? Why should they be not reffered to (not exclusively identified) as Roma camps? Because of blind political corectness? They are deporting all of their inhabitants which are there illegaly, regardless of their nationality, and thats important.



If the French authorities were indiscriminately rounding up Romanians and Bulgarians from all around the country, then I could understand that, from a practical level.


They are rounding up all illegal immigrants. Its just easier to do with those in camps than those dispersed among the whole population.



As for ''personally reporting them'' for breaking settlement laws, then I'd say you're a grass and a NIMBY, if you did that.


According to wikipedia, NIMBY means someone who is against some development, which does not suits them, but in all occasions is perfectly legal. If I am against stealing land (thats what illegal settlements are), no matter what development is there or who is doing it, I do not qualify as NIMBY. I am just a lawful citizen.
In what way am I a grass? You mean this ? I am not familiar with this english expression.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
Considering that the immigrants are abusing their social system and do not provide anything in return (just increased criminality), they are at least partially right.


Have you got anything to back up the increased criminality claim ?

It's pretty obvious to me, they are being targeted to appeal to the lowest common denominator in French society, and make it look like they are being tough on foreigners.


Originally posted by Maslo
It puts additional strain on social security system and law enforcement, therefore it ultimately afects quality of life of local residents in negative way.


In a very minute way. It's not equatable with criminal activity, such as robbing a bank.


Originally posted by Maslo
I probably would, but maybe not illegally. And if I was really poor, I would probably steal to survive, too. Does this mean we should make stealing legal?


That doesn't make sense. Stealing is a crime with a victim, moving to another country isn't.


Originally posted by Maslo
Since majority (almost all) of their residents is of one ethnicity, the question is "why not"? Why should they be not reffered to (not exclusively identified) as Roma camps? Because of blind political corectness? They are deporting all of their inhabitants which are there illegaly, regardless of their nationality, and thats important.


Because referring to them by their ethnicity shows the French authorities true colours.


Originally posted by Maslo
They are rounding up all illegal immigrants. Its just easier to do with those in camps than those dispersed among the whole population.


Correction. It's just better publicity for them to have a high-profile crackdown on an ethnic group that many of the French people are prejudiced against.


Originally posted by Maslo
According to wikipedia, NIMBY means someone who is against some development, which does not suits them, but in all occasions is perfectly legal. If I am against stealing land (thats what illegal settlements are), no matter what development is there or who is doing it, I do not qualify as NIMBY. I am just a lawful citizen.
In what way am I a grass? You mean this ? I am not familiar with this english expression.


I could understand you being against it if they were illegally settling on your property, but why would you get involved in something that had nothing to do with you ?

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term ''grass'', as mos people probably won't know the term; it's a slang for a ''snitch'' or a police informer, or someone who generally tries to get someone else in trouble.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 




Have you got anything to back up the increased criminality claim ?


Here



“delinquency of Romanian origin” in Paris had rocketed by 138 percent in 2009 and by 259 percent in the past eighteen months. “Today, in Paris, the reality is that almost one thief in five is a Romanian” and “one theft in four by minors is committed by a Romanian minor,” Mr Hortefeux said. Mr Hortfeux said that these figures were “not about stigmatising this or that population, but we cannot close our eyes to reality.” As a result, the French government has ordered the dismantling of at least 300 illegal Gypsy camps across France as part of a fight against crime and urban violence. The figures showed that in 2008, some 1,323 Gypsies were charged with criminal offences. This figure leaped to 3,151 in 2009. According to Mr Hortefeux, most of the charges were related to burglary, theft and pick pocketing.




It's pretty obvious to me, they are being targeted to appeal to the lowest common denominator in French society, and make it look like they are being tough on foreigners.


Since after 90 days they are in the country ILLEGALY, they are being tough on CRIMINALS. And I dont see anything wrong with that, its actually good thing.



In a very minute way. It's not equatable with criminal activity, such as robbing a bank.


I dont consider figures regarding criminality mentioned above "minute". I dont consider ANY abuse of social system "minute" - in effect its the same as stealing from taxpayers pockets directly, they just dont see it so obviously.



That doesn't make sense. Stealing is a crime with a victim, moving to another country isn't.


Moving ILLEGALY is.



Because referring to them by their ethnicity shows the French authorities true colours.


I agree that maybe they should have chosen more politically correct term, like "illegal immigrants camps", just to not give multi-culti terrorists any munition. But otherwise I agree with their deeds. Words to describe them maybe should have been chosen more wisely.



Correction. It's just better publicity for them to have a high-profile crackdown on an ethnic group that many of the French people are prejudiced against.


Its the same like saying "dismantling large drug dealing group is better publicly for them like arresting individual drug dealers elsewhere." I cannot say I dont agree with your statement, but I just dont see anything wrong with that. Should they ignore their crimes (illegal immigration) just because they are of one ethnicity and in a group? That would be positive discrimination according to ethnicity, which is also racist. Are you a racist?



I could understand you being against it if they were illegally settling on your property, but why would you get involved in something that had nothing to do with you ?


I could understand you being against it if they were illegally killing YOUR relatives, but why would you get involved in something that had nothing to do with you ?

I hope you now see the ignorance of your statement. Should we ignore the crime if it doesnt happen directly to us? Thats the same thinking that led to holocaust.



Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term ''grass'', as mos people probably won't know the term; it's a slang for a ''snitch'' or a police informer, or someone who generally tries to get someone else in trouble.


I have deep respect for police informers, without them, keeping law and order would be really harder, i think. And if there is really a reason to believe someone is comminting criminal activity, I see nothing wrong with "snitching" them. We are no longer in high school, where breaking teachers "laws" was considered cool. Grow up.


edit on 16-9-2010 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by Kram09
 


No, France threw them out. France did not kill them.

More propaganda lies.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Ok, you're boring me now, Maslo.

We could go around in circles multi-quoting for a long time.

I concede that you make some decent points, but I don't think we're going to agree on this issue.

The fact is that I believe that the Roma are being targeted by the French on racial grounds. You don't.

I think that sums up our exchanges on this thread.



posted on Sep, 21 2010 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


Ok, guess we agree to disagree then



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