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Socialist, Communist, or Capitalist?

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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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While watching an old George Carlin bit about things we all have in common, I was reminded of an idea I had not that long ago, wondering just how deep this goes. Naive as it may appear on the surface, I think that deep down we all agree on major issues, and despite the "my team is better than your team" mentality that many of us are raised with, to show that we all yearn for the same things out of life.

To this end, i've devised something of a social experiment, and invite all to join me in what will hopefully be an exercise in self-discovery and a crossing of political lines.

Here is the premise: Time Banks. For those not familiar, this concept is described as such, from the link: "For every hour you spend doing something for someone in your community, you earn one Time Dollar. Then you have a Time Dollar to spend on having someone do something for you."

What I would like to see from those so inclined, is: Do you believe this is an example of socialism, communism, capitalism, or something else entirely? Now the fun part.... Why do you think so?


Sadly, it's time for me to be off to bed, so I will check back in the morning (evening for most folk) and add my own input. To those inclined to contribute - Thank you in advance.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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I wouldn't classify this as Capitalism, Communism, or Socialism. I would classify it as good human nature and humanitarianism. Regardless of your views in life we shouldn't make one group better then the other. That's like saying religious people only do charities while Atheist could care less. It's ridiculous! Everyone is there for anybody.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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i would say communism because you are making everyones time equal. so i can go scrub someones toilet for an hour and then get a time dollar that i can use to have a doctor perform surgery on me for an hour? or cut someones grass for an hour and then use the time dollar earned to get a private hour show from lady gaga??


edit on 10-9-2010 by conspiracy nut because: spelling typos



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Seems to me it's a 'reap what you sow' sort of situation - as in, people will only do good things for you if you have done good things for others - so I would consider it something closer to capitalism than socialism. I actually think that this idea would probably be a better way for society to function (although since I just got introduced to this in this thread, I haven't had time to think about the logistics if this would actually work, and I am guessing it would take a lot of modification before it would ever be a functioning system) but I like that you have to earn what you get, but that you earn it by being good rather than our system which rewards many people for fraudalence and dishonesty.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i would say communism because you are making everyones time equal. so i can go scrub someones toilet for an hour and then get a time dollar that i can use to have a doctor perform surgery on me for an hour? or cut someones grass for an hour and then use the time dollar earned to get a private hour show from lady gaga??


I agree 100%.
This is the basic structure of Communism.
Everyone gets the same amount, no matter how hard they work, or what job they do.
Your pay is dispersed through a higher power, i.e., gov't, and they control how much you get.

The problem with your question, an I commend you for a good thought-provoking subject (
)...
You can't pay someone who works in a experienced field, the same as a person who mops floors.
It's common sense.

The harder you work, the more you should make.
But, that's the ideals of Capitalism. Basic, but none-the-less, ideals.

The thing about the aforementioned, Time-Dollar, is that the value is worth an hour of labor?
So my rhetorical question back to you is:
If I sweat my butt off digging a trench for an hour, and you sit in a chair and type words for an hour...
Is this worth the same amount, i.e., Time-dollars, to you?



Good thread.


edit on 10-9-2010 by havok because: I wanted to add the word rhetorical...and fill out this edit form that I have never used before so I will type until the line fills up with letters and words and then maybe the edit function would go back to the normal function of just having a code of edit and not some line of script where you have to type out the reason for editing you post. Sorry Mods. I had to.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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It is the barter system, the one that came before all the others. The others still use it. I bet Russia still trades vodka for Cuban cigars. Oil for wheat, prostitutes for votes.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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None of the above, its probably cloaest to paticipatory economics in the use of a nontransferable curency and the fluidity of the term job etc. while parcon purpusly rotates jobs it seems this system alowws any person to be called upon for any job. am i right? (note: havent looked at website yet)



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by AnonymousJ
None of the above, its probably cloaest to paticipatory economics in the use of a nontransferable curency and the fluidity of the term job etc. while parcon purpusly rotates jobs it seems this system alowws any person to be called upon for any job. am i right? (note: havent looked at website yet)


I disagree.
Non-transferable currency? Hardly.
In typical community situations, you wouldn't try to wire a home if you were unable to, would you?
There would be a lack of skills in one area and an added set in another.
If someone knew how to build a home, why would that person do something for 'money' that they wouldn't have the knowledge for?
All though you would be able to call upon a person for 'any' job, you typically would want someone with the right skills.





posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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II it was Communistic...we all would be paid the same number of hours and each hour would be of equal worth.

If it was Socialist...I could get as many hours as I wanted, but the government would then give any they felt I didn't deserve to someone with less hours.

If it was Capitalist, I would invest in a bunch of hours with University students...after they became lawyers and doctors...I would then request their hours in trade. buy low, sell high.....LOL



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 


I believe there are better ways of explaining these ideologies. From reading the Communist Manifesto Karl Marx wanted to present a society where people shared the wealth and everything else.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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First off thanks for all of the replies so far.


My first impression upon hearing about these time banks was "Clearly this is capitalism at is simplest!" My reasoning was this: In capitalism, you own property. This includes yourself via your labor, and all that your labor produces. Because you own these, they are yours to do with as you see fit.

Currency is a direct, tangible reflection of this labor. When you spend a dollar, you are really exchanging your labor for someone else's.

Then, I began thinking about it more, and it seemed to me that this system of time dollars really does one of two things: Either it incorporates elements from almost all socio-political-economic systems, (it lacks need for a State, lets each person decide how and where to trade their labor, and also creates a closer equality regardless of "social status")

OR

All of these systems have more in common than they care to admit.

It seems to me that if the later were true, and if ideas like this were to catch on, we could be well on our way to to establishing once again, a "more perfect union". As stated in the OP, I think deep down we all yearn for the same things out of life, and no system by itself is free from flaws. Granted, I am somewhat biased; leaning in favor of capitalism, but then again I am a very independent kind of guy.

From the standpoint of capitalism there is one thing that I cannot tolerate (even though in our current paradigm I an forced to tolerate), which is being forced to spend the product of my labor in a way that is not of my choosing, by an outside entity such as government.

I think that when we are at the precipice of our demise, then change will come to our paradigm. That it will either become much more dire for the people in general, or if more can be made aware that there is a better way and that only through determination and effort, we can take this grand experiment that is the united States to a whole new level of equality and personal liberty, once again becoming a beacon of hope to free men the world over.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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Wait a sec.

What happens to me in this hypothetical world if I dont agree on the premise of time dollars? Perhaps my time is more valuble in terms of my own time dollars expended into my skillset in comparison to someone with a less developed skillset, ie less time dollars invested into theirs?

Perhaps I'm a higly trained brain surgeon whos invested thousands of time dollars into my highly specialized, demanded, irreplacable and therefor valuble accumulation of invested time. And now compare the same amount of invested time to a person who specialized in cleaning toilets. Are my time dollars, on a one to one basis, as valuble as the toilet cleaners? If they are, what rational incentive do I have to invest my time bucks into a highly challenging and demanding field such as brain surgery when I could gain the same amount of time bucks by simply scrubbing floors? And if they are not equal, how about we just use money, as money is a fine way of representing my increased value and demand?

Ill tell you right now, under the artifically imposed time bucks scenario (which would have to be implemented top down by an all powerful monopoly of force, as otherwise no one would agree or adhere to it) there would be no incentive for anyone to do anything extrodinary besides the few inspired who do what they do regardless of material incentive. Thus youd have a lot more dishwashers banking time bucks and a lot less highly specialized and productive technicians because the people who would invest their time in the harder fields would simply devote their time to something less intensive because they would get the same time bucks picking fruit as they would going to hard core school for 8 years.

Not everyones input is as valuble as everyone elses.


edit on 12-9-2010 by Neo_Serf because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Neo_Serf
 


With all respect, I think you're not quite understanding the context here. This is not a hypothetical, it is a developing system. Also worth note, that like any honest trade or currency system, it is completely voluntary.

The purpose of this experiment, is to get others viewpoints on what socio-political-economic system they think best describes this phenomenon; in order to show that there is indeed no better way to do business than one built upon honesty, trust, integrity, and openness.....not in the system, but in each other.

One thing I have learned is that all men desire freedom. Common ground is not easy to come by when all sides are kept bickering over trivial matters.



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