It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Karma Vs Fate?

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:51 AM
link   
Hello good people of ATS,

Let me ask you a question; how is your life governed?

Do you believe that there is a God who, ultimately, controls your life and you have no ability but to simply oblige?

Do you believe that life is simply life and as such is what you make it? Be that becoming successful, financially wealthy and stable?

More to the point of the article do you believe in Karma or do you believe in Fate? Because as far as I'm concerned each contradicts the other and as such it's only possible to believe in one of the two.

Karma:



In theistic schools of Hinduism, humans have free will to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences, which require the will of God to implement karma's consequences, unlike Buddhism or Jainism which do not accord any role to a supreme God or gods. In Indian beliefs, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping past, present, and future experiences. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala


en.wikipedia.org...

Fate:



Destiny refers to a predetermined course of events.[1] It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual. It is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the cosmos.


en.wikipedia.org...

Put simply, the belief of Karma is based around the fact that the energy you give out will be reciprocal i.e. if you give out a certain amount of positive energy then one way or another that energy will eventually come back to you.

If you do something wrong i.e. giving out negative energy then eventually, even if it's in ten years time, you'll feel the wrath of that negative energy and something bad will happen to you.

Fate, basically says that everything that happens in life is already mapped out hence common statements found in everyday parlance such as "when your cards up, it's up" i.e. when you die has already, on some scale, been pre-arranged and what's going to happen will happen regardless of our intervention.

Both idea's contradict each other in my opinion; if I give out more positive energy then I'm less likely to die and I'm sure to recieve the same amount of positivity back.

If you believe in Fate then whatever happens to me is going to happen, whether I like it or not and I have no control over it.

Do you believe we have a pre-programmed destiny or can we change it? Will it really affect our lives in terms of happiness, success, emotions among other things if we project more positive energy into the world?

Of course, I expect answers alluding to the fact that we will feel better if we put more positive energy out there as we'll feel better as people etc etc

But that's not what I'm asking, I'm talking about a direct correlation.

Finally, if you do believe in Fate, do you believe it's created? Or is it simply the way the Universe works?

Thoughts?




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:55 AM
link   
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


do some more investigative research into the
free will before you proclaim that fate is the opposite of karma.
and not all believe in predeterminism.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


do some more investigative research into the
free will before you proclaim that fate is the opposite of karma.
and not all believe in predeterminism.


Why don't you post your opinions in the thread and prove me wrong rather than simply telling me to research more enlightened one?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:16 AM
link   
I believe in the balance of all three. Hard to logically present without it qualifying as illogical. I'll try.

If my life is pre-destined in some way (fate) than I have no control of the final outcome. I'll use the analogy of a tree, trying to say that it (fate) is real, but certain choices along the way will shape that final destination. You're born at the trunk, and end up a falling leaf back to the source, the dirt.

Now, Karma will also play a factor in your life just as the wind will affect said tree. Your wind is your karma, treat the world well, and you shall have a calm blowing breeze, do the opposite, and prepare for a storm.

So, both of these equate to free will in the path of life.

It is a road with many forks, but if you choose wisely, you may actually get where you want to go.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:18 AM
link   
That's a very long way to ask:

'Do you think free will exists?'

Everything else you say is just a result of the respective possible answers... (Y/N)

As far as i am concerned, free will exists. I'm not saying everyone uses it to it's true potential, but everyone is capable of doing what he or she wants.

If it turns out this is not the case, then i would certainly say the illusion of it is convincing enough to have me enjoy it.

cheers



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:23 AM
link   
reply to post by sticky
 


Very good analogy there my friend but your example still means that by treating the world well it will treat you back as such, thus negating the concept that fate exists. Fate, obviously does not take into account what nice or positive things you have done, it's a pre-determined end to your life or the events in it.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by j-man
That's a very long way to ask:

'Do you think free will exists?'

Everything else you say is just a result of the respective possible answers... (Y/N)

As far as i am concerned, free will exists. I'm not saying everyone uses it to it's true potential, but everyone is capable of doing what he or she wants.

If it turns out this is not the case, then i would certainly say the illusion of it is convincing enough to have me enjoy it.

cheers


But that doesn't answer the question as to whether fate exists or not?

If fate does exists then you can exercise free will as much as you want, but when it's time to go then you can't stop it...



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:34 AM
link   
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Like you said, one doesn't really compliment the other. To believe in one is to claim the other doesn't exist.

I tried my best to explain how I believe they actually can intermingle or coexist in the physical world. I still trust most of my intuitions on things dealing with spirituality or the unexplained. Are these thoughts naive, possibly.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:35 AM
link   
I'm not particularly spiritual, but I do believe in karma. You get what you give, whether it's good or bad. Of course that doesn't mean that bad things won't happen to you if you're always "good", or that good things can't happen to those who are "bad". It all averages out in the end though.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by sticky
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Like you said, one doesn't really compliment the other. To believe in one is to claim the other doesn't exist.

I tried my best to explain how I believe they actually can intermingle or coexist in the physical world. I still trust most of my intuitions on things dealing with spirituality or the unexplained. Are these thoughts naive, possibly.


Fair enough mate, I'm not having a dig. Just trying to provoke thought and debate about two interesting concepts which both haven't been proven to exist but many people believe to be true.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm not particularly spiritual, but I do believe in karma. You get what you give, whether it's good or bad. Of course that doesn't mean that bad things won't happen to you if you're always "good", or that good things can't happen to those who are "bad". It all averages out in the end though.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Doesn't seem to be the way my world works mate



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:44 AM
link   
No, it doesn't explain if faith exists.

And before one can start argueing if it does, the whole concept of faith needs to be defined very strictly. Karma and Faith are nice, but what about Chance, Influence from others and what not...

And what is the point of living if everything is predetermined. I.e. What is the point of living assuming everything is predetermined.

Since I do not see how the question you propose can be answered in any way apart from intuitive, (psuedo-)fillosophical reasoning, this discussion is rather pointless...



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by j-man
No, it doesn't explain if faith exists.

And before one can start argueing if it does, the whole concept of faith needs to be defined very strictly. Karma and Faith are nice, but what about Chance, Influence from others and what not...

And what is the point of living if everything is predetermined. I.e. What is the point of living assuming everything is predetermined.

Since I do not see how the question you propose can be answered in any way apart from intuitive, (psuedo-)fillosophical reasoning, this discussion is rather pointless...


The whole point is that said pre determined pattern isn't known to us.

If you think this discussion is pointless then stop commenting...



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 11:47 AM
link   
Reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Overall it does. Some things that seem like bad things turn out to be blessings in disguise. It just takes awhile to understand why things happen sometimes.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Death_Kron
 

I didn't say I didn't LIKE the discussion or thinking about it. I mean, not everything I do needs to have a higher purpose.

I'm just saying this is a case that will never be closed, making the whole process of debating about it kind of pointless.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:18 PM
link   
Why oh why does everything in life have to be so mysterious and complicated???Just live life and let life happen,people please its not that hard.I'm more worried where my feet are taking me.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by j-man
reply to post by Death_Kron
 

I didn't say I didn't LIKE the discussion or thinking about it. I mean, not everything I do needs to have a higher purpose.

I'm just saying this is a case that will never be closed, making the whole process of debating about it kind of pointless.


I love a good pointless debate, it sure passes the time well.



Ok, I'm being sarcastic, ultimately you're right in this post and the previous.


edit on 10-9-2010 by sticky because: I like editing my posts!



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


I believe we are guided by our higher/future selves. We feed our higher/future and past selves from our thoughts, dreams, prayers, and hope. There is a God shared by everyone, our spirit parents, we are all connected to them. Think, Prime Numbers and Phi. We are Spirals and we make Soul Chains.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:15 PM
link   
There can be both.

Fate doesn't necessarily have to be some force that pre-determines the position of every molecule of your body throughout your lifetime. Perhaps it just applies to pivotal moments in your life? Or maybe it just gets you to the right place at the right time, but the particular decision to make is still yours?

If "fate" exists, then it implies the existence of some more-fundamental order to reality, which transcends our materialistic framework. This more fundamental level of reality may be the medium through which karma acts. So fate gets you to the courthouse, but karma would act upon the testimony you deliver.

In the end, it all depends on how you define your terms. So many different people have different concepts of both "fate" and "karma" that asking bluntly if one contradicts the other can never get an adequate answer.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


The definition you profess of fate and karma are similar.

fate is a god (higher power) predetermines the outcome. by determining the consequences.
karma means a god (higher power) will etermine the outcome, by assigning consequences.

this leaves the human as nothing more than a puppet in either case.

the illusion of free will is evident in karma but not determinism.

however in karma someone has to be keeping score to assign consequences for putting out too much negative energy or too much positive energy, so free will becomes moot, unless you want to be reincarnated as a cricket over and over again.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join