Not atheist, not religious: Typical Briton is a 'fuzzy believer'

Originally posted by Parallex
I am in the UK, and referring to the difference between LEGALITY and COMMON LAW. The former is based in commercial, contractual codices. The latter is based upon 'natural law' as our colonial friends once put it.

What do you think would happen to a ''freeman'' in the UK, if he was growing illegal substances in his garden, stockpiling weapons, or buying a large amount of bomb-making equipment ?

I think you'd find that, ''freeman'' or not, the authorities would be involved in all those in those instances, thus making a mockery of the claim that the person actually owns their home and property, and not the State.

I have to say this is a refreshing change for ATS...

A thread about religion turning in to a tangential discussion about a non-religious topic.

99% of time it's the exact opposite of the above.

Apathy seems to be the prevalent religion in the UK today.
People are not encouraged to think or question anything for themselves.
Accept what you are told.
Accept your lot.
Your reward is after you die.
But don't question how or why.

UK law and society, whether we like it or not is irrelevant, is based on Christian values.
But that does not mean we have to accept or practice Christian faith.
In fact the overtly Christian faithful are somewhat ridiculed and thought of as religious cranks by many, if not most.

But ask people why they are ridculing and the vast majority are at a loss to come up with even a slightly coherent explanation and have a complete lack of understanding of religious teaching and dogma.

I will try to respect any person's beliefs if they are considered and their own.
I may not agree with it.
I may not like it.
It may even disgust me.
But I will try to respect it.

But blind acceptance, ignorance and apathy are some of the worst human traits there are.
And these are far too common.

I also believe that many, if not most, Theists and Atheists have one thing in common; the blind and all unequivocal belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong, sometimes in the face of quite contradictory evidence.

Personally I am Agnostic.
There is no evidence that proves there is a 'God'.
There is no evidence that proves there isn't a 'God'.
So to me it's completely irrelevant, why worry about it?
I was nominally raised a Catholic, but even though I have long left that behind I still enjoy discussing matters religious and spiritual.
I try to live my life by a set of personal values by which I try not to do any unecessary harm to anyone as long as they treat me with the same respect.
Of course I fail frequently, I am but human..
I am sure that if there is a 'God' and there is a so called 'Judgement Day' then this omniescent being will judge me on the acts and deeds of my life rather than my adherence to some old, man written, out dated rules and regulations whose sole purpose is to control and bind.
So why worry about it?

But that does not mean that I am arrogant or ignorant enough to ignore opposing opinions.

The British people have lost focus and direction and apathy reigns supreme.
We need something on both a personal and national level to give us back some focus, drive and direction.
Is that thing Christianity?
I sincerely hope not, nor any other organised religion.
But we need something.

Aplogies, rant over.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Start a new thread on the topic as it is now and I will come and join you on there.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


I have added to the thread that I linked to a few posts ago.

Back on topic.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Parallex
I am in the UK, and referring to the difference between LEGALITY and COMMON LAW. The former is based in commercial, contractual codices. The latter is based upon 'natural law' as our colonial friends once put it.

What do you think would happen to a ''freeman'' in the UK, if he was growing illegal substances in his garden, stockpiling weapons, or buying a large amount of bomb-making equipment ?

I think you'd find that, ''freeman'' or not, the authorities would be involved in all those in those instances, thus making a mockery of the claim that the person actually owns their home and property, and not the State.

You see this is the difference between commercial law and criminal law. In perpetrating the activities above, your actions could be interpreted as preparing to cause harm to another person, their liberty, or property - common law applies.

If you weren't paying your council tax, different story.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


It's interesting that you are drawing a distinction between, for the want of a better definition, "moral" and "administrative" obligations. I do not queston the distinction, but I question some of the ideas that are being drawn from it.

On a slight tangent, there have been academic arguments made that criminal law is inherently property law; for example, that an offence against the person is essentially a specialised form of damage to property of the Crown.

A growing amount of criminal law could also be considered "administrative", or commercial if you prefer. The commercial world relies upon, among other things, surety and stability. Fraud legislation is perhaps less about the criminal element and more about generating confidence in the commercial sector that (i) they have a clearer knowledge of how far they can go and (ii) transgressors will be dealt with accordingly.

My apologies if previous posts came across as rather abrupt. While the gist was accurate, my phrasing was perhaps inappropriate.

Originally posted by Parallex
You see this is the difference between commercial law and criminal law. In perpetrating the activities above, your actions could be interpreted as preparing to cause harm to another person, their liberty, or property - common law applies.

If you weren't paying your council tax, different story.

Parallex.

This is what I thought.

There's no real difference between being a ''freeman'' and a normal person, in the fact that your property and land are still covered by the State's legislation, and you do not genuinely ''own'' your property.

It's just a glorified attempt at saving a few quid, and I'm not sure it actually even works for that.

How sad that so many think a nation can be governed wisely apart from the influence of God. How far we have fallen. The demoralization and degradation of Western culture clearly shows that this thought is utter folly. At least the atheist, though rabid and foolish, is honest in his rejection of religion. It's ridiculous to have a pretend religion that has no power over your life. The statistics bear this out. Those who actually have a Biblical worldview and believe in something have much lower divorce rates and do much better with regards to all the social statistics. But those who profess to be christians but have no real convictions actually do worse than non-believers.

As for running a country without God, I hope you like the prior results from other atheistic countries like revolutionary France, Stalinist Russia and Cambodia. All the millions that died and were put into slave labor camps should encourage you.

George Washington had this to say about religion and government:

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”

and from John Adams

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

reply to post by SevenThunders


So are you saying that non-Theists's can not live a 'moral' liife?

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by stevcolx

 

Josephus, Polycarp, Iraneus, Clement, Justin?

I don't know much about the other 2 but the evidence that Josephus and Justin Martyr has been proven to be false and just part of the Religious scam for years!

There is no credible evidence whatsoever for the existence of Jesus. No archaeological evidence, no written evidence, nothing. So it is with Solomon, Moses, David, Abraham, Samson and countless other biblical characters.

If you want a saviour god who died so our sins could be forgiven, take your pick from the ancient world because there are a stream of them.

Here are just some of the ‘Son of God’ heroes who play the lead role in stories which mirror those attributed to Jesus and almost all were worshipped long before Jesus was even heard of:

Khrishna of Hindostan
Buddha Sakia of India
Salivahana of Bermuda
Osiris and Horus of Egypt
Odin of Scandinavia
Crite of Chaldea
Zoroaster of Persia
Baal and Taut of Phoenicia
Indra of Tibet
Bali of Afghanistan
Jao of Nepal
Wittoba of Bilingonese
Tammuz of Syria and Babylon
Attis of Phrygia
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zoar of the Bonzes
Adad of Assyria
Deva Tat and Sammonocadam of Siam
Alcides of Thebes
Mikado of the Sintoos
Beddru of Japan
Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillahm, of the Druids
Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls
Cadmus of Greece
Hil and Feta of Mandaites
Gentaut and Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
Ischy of Formosa
Divine Teacher of Plato
Holy One of Xaca
Fohi and Tien of China
Adonis, son of virgin lo, of Greece
Ixion and Quirinus of Rome
Prometheus of the Caucasus
Mohammed or Mahomet, of Arabia

Christianity is a Pagan sun religion, the worship of which is condemned by Christianity! It is also an astrology religion, the ‘evil’ of which is condemned by Christianity, not least by the Pope!

It’s all recycling. Jesus is a myth man.

reply to post by stevcolx


so there is ancient testimony also?

jmm.aaa.net.au...

Daniel-
In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

Isaiah-
In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

1Peter-
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

reply to post by stevcolx


Actually Osiris was the father god whom was murdered. Horus. Well, it's a bit more complex then a savior son of god thing.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

So are you saying that non-Theists's can not live a 'moral' liife?

Statistically speaking that is correct. Just take a look at the social and moral decline of Western civilization if you can't figure it out for yourself. Look at what happened in revolutionary France shortly after they outlawed the Bible or check out the atheist powers such as the Soviet Union or North Korea. They were and are either human rights disasters or moral cesspools. The national religion of western civilization, atheism, has served it rather poorly in recent years.

dont you hate it when people write about times in the past as if they were there ???

you werent, all youve got is material that says someoen else says its true or accurate

YOU WERENT THERE YOU CANT KNOW.

and as for this religious/athiest discussion ?

all these fancy 'isms and 'thiest remarks "sound like" really well educated questions

ask yourself these questions but keep the answers short...

are you happy with yourself ?
do you surround yourself with people who make you feel loved ?
do you make the people who surround you feel loved ?

thats it, nuff said, if the answer is yes to these what more do you need ?

if the answers is no to any of them, change it !!!

you dont need a book to tell you how to think, just ask yourself.

thanks and peace

reply to post by SevenThunders


And what of the horror's that have been commited in the name of religions, of all kinds.

Faith is not a guarantee of moral rectitude nor does the lack of faith infer a lack of morality.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

So are you saying that non-Theists's can not live a 'moral' liife?

Statistically speaking that is correct. Just take a look at the social and moral decline of Western civilization if you can't figure it out for yourself. Look at what happened in revolutionary France shortly after they outlawed the Bible or check out the atheist powers such as the Soviet Union or North Korea. They were and are either human rights disasters or moral cesspools. The national religion of western civilization, atheism, has served it rather poorly in recent years.

Many would argue that America is a moral cesspool and it's one of the most religious nations on earth. The people of the Soviet Union despite what your American propaganda told you had morals.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr


Many would argue that America is a moral cesspool and it's one of the most religious nations on earth. The people of the Soviet Union despite what your American propaganda told you had morals.

America is largely a marxist nation, with a defacto atheist religion, enforced by it's government. 90% of it's population have been fooled into thinking they are christians, when they are in fact pagans or atheists. Curiously Russia is still largely Russian Orthodox and they have their own unique social problems.

In fact the USA communist party platform is identical to the democrats platform and they even sued the democrats for stealing it. It has since been pulled from their site, but here is a summary.
www.americanthinker.com...

All of these platforms, as many of the original teachings of Marx are being realized here in America. Not surprisingly, like everywhere else it's been tried, it's destroying our country.

As I have mentioned before, less than 10% of Americans have a Biblical worldview as various Barna polls have shown. So there is a pretend christianity here, but like Britain, and like Biblical prophecy indicates, "It has a form of godliness but denies its power". 2Tim 3:5.

reply to post by SevenThunders


You have still failed to show any evidence whatsoever other than your own opinion that faith is a prerequisite to living a moral life.

All you have succeeded in doing is displaying the arrogance and blind faith in your particular brand and interpretation of Christianity and all other denominations are really pagans, atheists and communists.

george michael had faith.....

where is he now ???

i rest my case !!!

lol