**Breaking** VLT May Have Proven That Our Laws Of Physics Are Wrong - The Universe Is Not Equal!

I have just heard that the VLT in chile has found an irregularity ithat could indeed have massive implications on how we view the universe. I am trying to find more information on this story as the media moguls wake up.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8eaa1432f53.jpeg[/atsimg]

I for one am extremely keen to learn more about what exactly the VLT (Very Large Telescope) in Chile has found that may prove our science based knowledge of laws and physics in the universe is completely and utterly incorrect and the so called experts in these matters may have to issue apologies for trying to ridicule the people who disagreed with them.

As soon as I get some more information I will post for all to see, keep watching this space

VLT Homepage

Edit - links or you all

Laws of Physics are not the same everywhere

Fine Structure Constant - link provided by davespanners

Scientists propose a variable law of phyics

Physics laws vary throughout the universe

reply to post by franspeakfree


What do you, or the new finding mean by equal?

I don't understand

Heres a link to an article on the paper that is being published link
From what I am reading it says that one of the universal constants ALPHA goes against Einsteins equivalence theory (i.e that physics acts in the same way throughout the universe) and varies in different regions of space.
They are also proposing that this may mean that this part of the universe is particularly suited to the existence of life

I'm not sure I even understand what ALPHA is

and heres a link to what ALPHA or "The fine structure constant" actually is .
The wiki article suggests that there was already debate about whether ALPHA was constant or not and this variation might actually help solve a few problems

reply to post by franspeakfree


Thanks for the info Fran,

But IMO, all this is so juvenile and laughable.

I DON'T mean you or your thread, but the idea that it's some kind of 'shocker' that humans have misunderstood the intricate and infinitely complex workings of 'the Universe' (multiverse).

I mean, come on folks..human kind cannot (officially) get a single, solitary human being to our nearest planetary neighbour as yet!

Science pretends it understands how the Universe works, and ridicules and performs character and career assassinations on those that dare to suggest alternatives to dogma??!

They are like spoiled, petulant children. Ignorant of just about everything they consider and profess themselves expert in.

It's this same arrogant attitude within the sciences, also in evidence all over ATS through 'debunkers' on virtually all, no scratch that, on ALL esoteric or out of the box subjects such as ET life, UFO's, false history, alternative energy generation, karmic beliefs and so on, that REALLY holds humanity back.

I'm not having a pop at you Fran, i like your posts...i'm just annoyed at 'sciences' apparent surprise at potentially being wrong...about everything. Of course they are wrong about everything!

Wow you guys were quick, I have just been scouring the net to find some information to bring you all. Anyways, I found it and heres some more information in detail:

Defying Einstein's equivalence principle, which states that the laws of physics are the same everywhere, researchers have found new evidence that supports the idea that we live in an area of the universe that is "just right" for our existence.

The reason that this is interesting for me is the fact that all the universities that have been teaching einsteins theories to thousands of students could indeed have been passing on incorrect knowledge.

If what the VLT has found to be correct and the value of alpha is different in other parts of the universe, this puts a whole new twist on how the laws of physics operates in space.

Fundamentally and most importantly this means that life can exist anywhere in the universe.

Taking data from the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile Webb has observed that alpha varies in space rather than time.

The VLT data suggests that, elsewhere in the universe, the value of alpha is very slightly bigger than on Earth.

Source

Fundamentally and most importantly this means that life can exist anywhere in the universe.

I was under the impression that it meant the exact opposite

“The implications for our current understanding of science are profound. If the laws of physics turn out to be merely 'local by-laws', it might be that whilst our observable part of the universe favours the existence of life and human beings, other far more distant regions may exist where different laws preclude the formation of life, at least as we know it.”

I imagine that this is going to end up being hijacked by the intelligent design people.

reply to post by franspeakfree


It wasn't that long ago that I said arrogant fouls will always be proven wrong. It has been true throughout history, just when people's arrogance sky rockets, something new comes a long and boom, they remember how little we truly know.

Kind of embarrassing but that embarrassment is what they need, to remind them.

reply to post by spikey


I am in total agreement with you spikey, scientists believe everything they are taught by the 'great thinkers' that they respect and many of them believe in everything they know to be true and that there is no room for maneuverability, for example, look how the Royal Society acted at this years conference when the guest speaker talked about how we should start to 'open' up our science in to new areas and look at the fact that life could exist elsewhere. Juvenile and ignorant are two words that spring to mind. NOW perhaps with these new findings, and perhaps now that these very same people who ridiculed many over the years for having such outlandish views on subjects 'outside of the box' will start to issue their apologies and and more importantly recognise that working together is a much better way to unlocking the secrets of our universe.

Different direction, different constant Webb and colleagues have submitted surprising and controversial new research to Physical Review Letters, showing that the fine structure constant varies even more depending on which direction of space you look into.

This is interesting to me, since it would indicate that the theory of shifting "dimensions" could be real. As our earth and galaxy travels in space, it travels into different prts with different alpha constant. This sounds awfully similar to the shift of dimensions. The change would not be like the flick of a switch, but very gradual. However in a gradual change you will reach a tipping point, that for instance could change very rapidly the way the sun works.

Interesting stuff for sure.

I'm really confused about a couple of the past posts, it's a story about a group of scientists saying that we may have to modify one of the accepted scientific theories in light of new evidence, and it's being used to indicate that somehow science is "arrogant".
What else do expect scientists to do apart from use the best data and theories that they have at the time and then modify them when new evidence comes along, this is the complete opposite of arrogance, the acceptance of the fact that you might be proved wrong at any time and have to change your view.

reply to post by davespanners


First off I am not a scientists just a mere banker. From what I understood from the speaker is that life could exist everywhere in the universe but the life does not necessarily conforms to our physics, for example gravity could be different in certain areas of space that will change how life adapts in its environment. Unfortunately I only caught the tail end of it which was a damn shame, I am trying to find some more information that us mere mortals may understand. Watch this space.

Originally posted by above

This is interesting to me, since it would indicate that the theory of shifting "dimensions" could be real. As our earth and galaxy travels in space, it travels into different prts with different alpha constant. This sounds awfully similar to the shift of dimensions. The change would not be like the flick of a switch, but very gradual. However in a gradual change you will reach a tipping point, that for instance could change very rapidly the way the sun works.

Interesting stuff for sure.

above, your post gave me a shiver down my arms, this is exactly what I thought when I read in to it, there is so much coming in to the MSM about how parallel universes could exist and how we our universe is part of 'layers' that exist in different frequencies in space time.

This subject is becoming more and more or a reality and no longer exists purely in the land of science fiction. I can't help but think that the LHC has a larger role to play in all of this and that cern could already be aware of all of this.

reply to post by davespanners

I imagine that this is going to end up being hijacked by the intelligent design people.

Quite the opposite. If true, this finding could undermine thier position. If the value of alpha is variable in spacetime, it could mean that this value is not set up intelligently. It just happens to be have the value needed for life where we are, but this doesnt have to be true everywhere.

Some people theoretize this is a hint towards our universe being an event horizon of a black hole, and the value of alpha is thus influenced by its rotation.

Originally posted by davespanners
What else do expect scientists to do apart from use the best data and theories that they have at the time and then modify them when new evidence comes along, this is the complete opposite of arrogance, the acceptance of the fact that you might be proved wrong at any time and have to change your view.

davespanners, how many scientists and 'armchair scientists' have you had the pleasure of meeting dave? the reason I ask you is that it is no secret that up until now some published scientists find it incredibly hard to admit that they could be wrong and invest alot of time trying to discredit others for agendas of their own. I have mentioned one example from the Royal Society members laughing and s'n-word'ing when someone talks about the possible existence of extraterrestrial life elsewhere, if thats not arrogant and ignorant what is?

reply to post by franspeakfree



Not that many, but if you look through my thread history you will see that I did actually meet and have coffee with a particle physicist that worked at the Large Hadron collider a few months back and he was the exact opposite of the image you are trying to project, in fact if you look through the thread here you will see that he told me that he wasn't even sure if dark matter existed or if the big bang theory was correct.

I'm not saying that no scientists are arrogant, I just don't get how the article you posted says anything to back that theory up, if anything it suggests the opposite

Originally posted by davespanners
I'm not saying that no scientists are arrogant, I just don't get how the article you posted says anything to back that theory up, if anything it suggests the opposite

I don't underatand what you mean by this dave, can you elaborate? I am saying that this article will fly in the face of those who are so vehemently opposed to change.

Are you aware of how many scientific groups shunned Rick Strassmans governemnt backed study when he mentioned publicly that natural substances and ET go hand in hand, The same with Graham Hancock and indeed Ede Frecska, some scientific groups shunned their findings without even looking at the evidence. They flatly refused because it was something 'out of thebox' that mainstream thinkers refuse to touch.

Luckily for us though life is changing and more and more people are defying mainstream science beliefs and are actually doing something to bring us the truth

I did actually meet and have coffee with a particle physicist that worked at the Large Hadron collider a few months back and he was the exact opposite of the image you are trying to project, in fact if you look through the thread here you will see that he told me that he wasn't even sure if dark matter existed or if the big bang theory was correct.

Yes I did read your thread I was one of the members who flagged it, I am envious of you, I would of had a whole host of questions to ask. Like what are they really doing at the LHC.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by davespanners

 

First off I am not a scientists just a mere banker. From what I understood from the speaker is that life could exist everywhere in the universe but the life does not necessarily conforms to our physics, for example gravity could be different in certain areas of space that will change how life adapts in its environment.

For some reason that's how I thought it worked anyway, to think all laws apply across such a massive and undiscovered expanse seems a daft idea.

Hmm,

I guess that your right that there are individuals or groups within the scientific community that do automatically disbelieve things that don't go along with their own theories.
I would hope though that the very mechanisms that science uses (i.e. peer review and relying wherever possible on mathematical proofs or experiment that can be reproduced) would eventually get to the truth no matter how much it goes against the "established theory" and that eventually those disbelievers would either be persuaded or find themselves put in the position where they are now the outsiders and the new ideas are accepted.