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At least 16 dead in Russian republic after suicide car bombing

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posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


You want me to repeat my point? My point is, they are freedom fighters, give them their freedom and they will stop fighting, hence freedom fighters.

Propaganda works, or they wouldn't be spending over a billion dollars per year on it


You are the product of that propaganda.

Now do you want to blabber about whether they are freedom fighters or not, or do you want to discuss what the solution should be.

From your posts, you claim we should keep killing them. Well the thing is, you can't kill somehow who is already dead + you can't arrest him, nor torture him, nor rape him in prison like the other empires, non of them are productive anyways, because it has proven to fail, as I quoted Einstein telling us what insanity is.

Is the above what your solution to the problem is? That we should kill them all, find them and kill them, imprison them etc?

I want to make that clear first.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Is that what your empire tells you?


I don't have an empire.



Originally posted by oozyism
People don't blow themselves up because they want money


No they do it because they were brainwashed to believe something by someone who wants money or power, and exploits their gullibility or emotions for personal gain.



Originally posted by oozyism
that is why they created those propagandas, so it can help people like you sleep better at night after running out of arguments.


Are you telling me what helps me sleep better at night? Very classy.



Originally posted by oozyism
The government's job is to take care of citizen affairs, that means when I make an agreement with you based on Quran, that if you have sex with my wife, you should get 90 lashes, and vice versa, the government should enforce that law between me and you.


And what if I already made an agreement with your wife that we will have sex, and then club you over the head when you are sleeping and burn you in a ceremonial fire dedicated to my god Odin, while reciting verses from Mein Kampf? The government better enforce it.



Originally posted by oozyism
It is not about what took place, it seems you are getting defensive now, I liked you much better when you were on the offence.


At least now you are no longer telling me what helps me sleep at night.




Originally posted by oozyism
My point is the cause, that these people have a cause, and the age of (I don't negotiate with terrorist) is over, it has proven not to work.


The Russians too have a cause, and the terrorists couldn't care less whether it existed. Again - what does having a cause prove? That one has the bare minimum necessary intelligence to provide an excuse for their actions?

And it is too early to tell if that strategy works or not.




Originally posted by oozyism
Sorry mate, you guys intervened in Afghanistan also, I know much about empires, and I know much about their propaganda, because I made it a duty to expose it. I like the way you tell stories though.


An honorable duty it is. What have you exposed thus far beyond the fact that everyone is a freedom fighter and anarchy-libertarianism is the wave of the future?



Originally posted by oozyism
Freedom, I stand for it, the story sounds nice though, I wonder who writes these


Certainly not those individuals who are too busy exposing propaganda through a philosophical quest through semantics and definitions of freedom fighters.



Originally posted by oozyism
It was still governed by Russia, that is the thing, I pointed out what the Government's duties are, and it is not to enforce Russian laws, but to enforce individual laws, and people's affairs.


Well I politely disagree with you about what the Government's duties should be.

Interestingly enough, the Chechen "constitution" that was drafted by Dudayev once Chechnya became de facto independent actually defined the role of the government to be much like that of the Russian government - in effect to enforce Chechen laws that the government itself has created. What say your freedom fighters to that?And then, in 1999 these same freedom fighters attacked Dagestan, to try and expand their control. Whose freedom were they fighting for when they occupied Dagestani villages?



Originally posted by oozyism
That being said, empires are very funny, because they have absolutely no tolerance for small independent nations, Iran spent all this time under sanctions


Since when is Iran a small nation?



Originally posted by oozyism
Surely stems from a cause lol people obviously don't want to live under Russian rule


And those people who didn't want to, interfered with those who did.



Originally posted by oozyism
If there was 100-200, then they would be easily hunted down and killed, obviously there is a lot of them


They have a well developed network of hideouts, and they are continuously recruiting brainwashed idiots into their ranks - there is always enough of those to go around.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
From your posts, you claim we should keep killing them. Well the thing is, you can't kill somehow who is already dead + you can't arrest him, nor torture him, nor rape him in prison like the other empires, non of them are productive anyways, because it has proven to fail, as I quoted Einstein telling us what insanity is.

Well their numbers have diminished significantly, and continue to do so every year.



Is the above what your solution to the problem is? That we should kill them all, find them and kill them, imprison them etc?

I want to make that clear first.



No my solution is that we find them, give them a nice big freedom fighter hug, and grant them a whole sh-tload of freedom. And when they revel in their freedom, and marvel at what their cause has endowed them with - then we poison their tea with polonium. [sarcasm]


I never said that I have a solution to the problem. There is likely no perfect solution. But granting freedom to do anything left and right to every maniac who desires it is not what I envision a civilized society be. To me it is irrelevant what cause they have, or if they have any cause - they are terrorists because the intention of their action is to terrorize other. Do you want to go a full circle debate again to end up where it started?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by maloy
 


If you have no solution, or wouldn't even bother to find a solution then where do you expect this discussion to go? Are you just here to justify your empire's continuous occupation?

I don't have any problem with your empire's continuous occupation, it seems some do, and you are not willing to look for a solution. That being said, keep killing and get killed is gonna end up with keep killing and get killed.

Those who are getting brainwashed? Can't they say the same about you


By the way, I don't justify the killings of innocent people, just so you can sleep tonight
some do, they are the problem, just so you know, by some, I mean empires + those who resist them. Don't tell us Russia is three decades old and forget about your own crimes which is coming back to haunt you



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


you keep saying empire,

what is your definition of empire?

does that include the islamic crazy empire?

the criminal empires?

so i guess what ever intervention by "current ruling empire" is justified even by you?

so 2 empires fighting are both freedom fighters, i get it.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by oozyism
 


you keep saying empire,

what is your definition of empire?

does that include the islamic crazy empire?

the criminal empires?

so i guess what ever intervention by "current ruling empire" is justified even by you?

so 2 empires fighting are both freedom fighters, i get it.


Definition of empire:


a group of countries under a single authorit

www.google.co.nz...:empire&sa=X&ei=k8iJTJvWLYSdcaP7sbIE&ved=0CBQQkAE

The criminal empire? I think if criminals ever try to create an empire they will simply be wiped off the face of the earth. That being said, if the criminals using the media can control you, then we can't do much about it really, unless we figure out the problem and solve it. It seems some have fallen for the empire's propaganda, making them believe there is no solution lol..

The intervention of current empire is justified by me? No, if you read my post you would see I'm against all control freaks


How can empires be freedom fighters? Empires can't be freedom fighters, if you look at the word "freedom fighter" maybe you would better understand.

Define Freedom Fighter:


insurgent: a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority

www.google.co.nz...

Use Google sometimes, it would make everyone's life much easier.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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....And millions of people are slowly being cruelly murdered by chem-trails. I thought people here were awake! Terrorism is a SMALL problem compared to our true enemy, the world elite.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
If you have no solution, or wouldn't even bother to find a solution then where do you expect this discussion to go?


I certainly didn't expect it to go into the philosophical definition of freedom fighters, but that's where you took it.

To claim to have a solution for every problem, is to undermine that problem's complexity, or overestimate your intelligence. So far Russia has seen significant progress in rooting out the Islamists, and while they still cause bloodshed it isn't nearly as bad as it was several years ago. Employing better intelligence to uncover supporters and money trails leading to the militants could further the progress. Whether the problem is completely eliminated depends on the political, social, and economic course of the North Caucasus republics. But in the short term eliminating the Islamists is certainly a solution that I am fond of.



Originally posted by oozyism
Are you just here to justify your empire's continuous occupation?


Yeah, you have me all figured out. Me and my lovely empire...



Originally posted by oozyism
I don't have any problem with your empire's continuous occupation, it seems some do, and you are not willing to look for a solution.


But you are I presume? And I am guessing that your solution has something to do with... FREEDOM? Nothing short of genious. How are we going to ration out the freedom? Does each terro... erg freedom fighter get his own freedom, or do they have one freedom combined? Maybe if there is 500 of them, we can give them 50 freedoms, or 1 per 10, and have them fight over it - they are freedom fighters after all. And what if someone else wants on in on the whole freedom give-away thing?

So what is it? How many freedoms and to whom do you want to give out. Will there be enough freedoms to go around? Will anyone be left alive after the mega freedom fighting orgy that ensues when someone wants more than their fair share of freedom? Do enlighten us.



Originally posted by oozyism
That being said, keep killing and get killed is gonna end up with keep killing and get killed.


Isn't that what was happening throughout the history of mankind - you know before societies, when everyone was free and all that?



Originally posted by oozyism
Those who are getting brainwashed? Can't they say the same about you


I am not blowing myself and ten other people up because of it am I? If I am brainwashed, I guess it must be a more benign case.



Originally posted by oozyism
By the way, I don't justify the killings of innocent people, just so you can sleep tonight


How considerate of you to care that I get proper rest. That is the second time you mention me sleeping, and frankly it's getting a bit creepy.


edit on 10-9-2010 by maloy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Then again you have a habit of getting pissed off and pulling one liners



Don't flatter yourself ooz. The only thing you can get me is another beer, now hop to it!



Thread update



Death toll in Vladikavkaz market blast reaches 17

"Fourteen people died at the scene of the blast, and another three died in a hospital. Among them are an 18-month old boy, a man and a woman," the republic's health minister, Vladimir Selivanov said.

Over 120 remain in hospital, he added.




edit on 10-9-2010 by SLAYER69 because: Ohh I dunno, I was bored and had nothing better to do.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by maloy


I certainly didn't expect it to go into the philosophical definition of freedom fighters, but that's where you took it.

As I said before, propaganda, words are the most important part of it lol.. What>? Did you think they inject you with propaganda?



To claim to have a solution for every problem, is to undermine that problem's complexity, or overestimate your intelligence. So far Russia has seen significant progress in rooting out the Islamists, and while they still cause bloodshed it isn't nearly as bad as it was several years ago. Employing better intelligence to uncover supporters and money trails leading to the militants could further the progress. Whether the problem is completely eliminated depends on the political, social, and economic course of the North Caucasus republics. But in the short term eliminating the Islamists is certainly a solution that I am fond of.

Like I said before, it hasn't worked has it>? You guys are using the same failed solutions you used in Afghanistan, that cause the break up of USSR, and this one will cause the next breakup, and continue breaking up until you see decades later that people want freedom, not some control freak telling them how to live.



Yeah, you have me all figured out. Me and my lovely empire...

Define empire
.. Words, how hypnotizing can they be..




But you are I presume? And I am guessing that your solution has something to do with... FREEDOM? Nothing short of genious. How are we going to ration out the freedom? Does each terro... erg freedom fighter get his own freedom, or do they have one freedom combined? Maybe if there is 500 of them, we can give them 50 freedoms, or 1 per 10, and have them fight over it - they are freedom fighters after all. And what if someone else wants on in on the whole freedom give-away thing?

Are you trying to ridicule my freedom, or are you that narrow minded to not get at all what I'm saying? Should I repeat>? OK let's make this simple because you are trying to be funny now:
Q1. Should everything be done based on agreements between human beings (individual human beings, not groups)?

Answer the above question, don't go like magician politician on me, it is a yes or no question.



So what is it? How many freedoms and to whom do you want to give out. Will there be enough freedoms to go around? Will anyone be left alive after the mega freedom fighting orgy that ensues when someone wants more than their fair share of freedom? Do enlighten us.

Answer the previous question then we will move on, I think you are trying to be funny.




Isn't that what was happening throughout the history of mankind - you know before societies, when everyone was free and all that?

Wars? Yes it has, but I thought it was smart to look forward, while learning from the past, instead of looking backward and learning from propaganda.




I am not blowing myself and ten other people up because of it am I? If I am brainwashed, I guess it must be a more benign case.

Yeah you are not, but tools are used differently, some tools just sit in the office and type all day, not knowing they are tools.




How considerate of you to care that I get proper rest. That is the second time you mention me sleeping, and frankly it's getting a bit creepy.


edit on 10-9-2010 by maloy because: (no reason given)


Ahh, finally,
sense of humor


Heard of IEDs which gets activated through pressure

Check your bed, good inspection needed.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Dance Oozy Dance..

Every time you justify terrorists I cringe.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by badw0lf
reply to post by oozyism
 


Dance Oozy Dance..

Every time you justify terrorists I cringe.



I'm actually against terrorism, but you and your gang in ATS usually come around justifying the Hiroshima, not to mention the justification of terrorism against Pakistanis which has caused almost a thousands innocent deaths..

Then again, they are not terrorist attacks lol, they are American attacks


Hitler used propaganda to brainwash people, after 70 years, the same tactics are used today, and people are still ignorant about it



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 03:42 AM
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One thing I find comforting is that once Islam and his sharia laws take over the world and kill all of us infidels...they will start killing each other.
Oh wait, they are already killing each other. I guess the Suni “freedom fighters” need freedom from their Shia “freedom fighters” brothers.

Now, that will give me a goodnight sleep, in case Ooozy wonders.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross
 


Politics and religion go hand in hand. Terrorism is about forcing one's beliefs on others.

Either they get their way, or they will anonymously and indiscreetly kill others.

Religion deals in absolutes where there is no compromise, and that is why almost all terrorist acts are carried out be religious nutcases.

I mean, wow! Really?

I believe that politics and religion should never "go hand in hand". Thomas Jefferson knew this early on as well when he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.

Terrorism is in no way about forcing one's beliefs on others, but is sometimes a means of coercion. It is a form of asymmetric warfare, used when conventional warfare is rendered obsolete because the forces in conflict vary greatly in power when compared one to the other. You know, it's like giving the little guy a samurai sword in a knife fight.

As for terrorism being anonymous, this is just not true. An anonymous act of terrorism would be counterproductive, because "terrorists" wants their actions to be seen by the world to draw attention to their cause. In the case of Islamic "terrorists", they usually post a video or some kind of media to the internet claiming responsibility.

Religion should never deal in absolutes and should always have room for compromise. In my opinion, that's one thing that is wrong with religion. When people think their way is the only way is the only way to salvation (Christianity). For example, if people of religion would compromise, there would be no such thing as jihad and Holy War.

As for the brush you painted ALL terrorists aka freedom fighters with, well, you know where you can stick that my friend.

Have a good day!




edit on 10-9-2010 by susp3kt because: To add to my post



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism

I'm actually against terrorism, but you and your gang in ATS


I have a gang? Kewl! All I need now is names.. NAMESS I tells ya!!

lol


usually come around justifying the Hiroshima, not to mention the justification of terrorism against Pakistanis which has caused almost a thousands innocent deaths..

Then again, they are not terrorist attacks lol, they are American attacks


Hitler used propaganda to brainwash people, after 70 years, the same tactics are used today, and people are still ignorant about it


Man, something is in your water..




edit on 10/9/2010 by badw0lf because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by badw0lf
 


I think we call people like you
 

trolls


 

in ATS



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 08:37 AM
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Maybe not the Russian/Chechen conflict will get media attention.

Well, maybe. The school hostage crisis was covered by the mainstream media for about 2 days. After that, it was back to what Britney Spears was up to.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Hmm is the CIA up to starting more "terrorism" ?



Deebo



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



Oozy good god, A suicide bomber is not a hero, or a resistance fighter, or a freedom fighter. He is a coward, he purposely targeted innocent people and blew himself up. Now if that would have been a laser guided American Missile that killed 16 and wounded a hundred of Innocent Afghans or Iraqis, your ass would be crying about how evil America is (or Russia) is. Why do you have such a double standard? Give me a straight Answer, Can you do that?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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OK... We have got a problem here. Russia's policy on autonomous republics. They can't elect their own government officials. Instead they are placed by Moscow. If Russian gave more rights to people of those regions and invest more money - there would not be Big Bad Russia. Well the problem is people life there is # so they fight and join radical terrorist organization.
Just giving regions to radicals isn't going to solve anything. Fighting against them with arms either. Power is to be placed in arms of local peaceful people. Russia need to make friends with them so they don't go killing aimlessly with car bombs and such.
Under Putin I doubt if it is possible. He has this image of a tough guy. Scolding protesters - allowing to beat up people who are rioting.
Well let's hope for a power change because I doubt Putin will change ever. And Putin won't allow power to change.Without another Revolution of 1905 it ain't happening.




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