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So You Wanna Fight? ATS Debate Tournament (Tournament Update)

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posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 05:18 AM

Originally posted by semperfortis

Let's figure this out...

1. Do you want to start ASAP, as in tomorrow morning? (If so, I'll unlock the threads at midnight tonight)

2. Do you want to wait until Monday? (Unlocking them at midnight Sunday)

What say you all???


You can unlock mine. I will patiently wait until my opponent opens the Debate, whenever he wants.

posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 06:09 AM

Originally posted by semperfortis

Let's figure this out...

1. Do you want to start ASAP, as in tomorrow morning? (If so, I'll unlock the threads at midnight tonight)

2. Do you want to wait until Monday? (Unlocking them at midnight Sunday)

What say you all???


I think it only fair to give my new opponent adequate time to prepare.

After all it is his first debate.

posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 08:20 AM
reply to post by LordBucket

Fixed. Thanks. See you guys in a couple days.

posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 10:34 AM
reply to post by The Vagabond

When are the newbies going to start their tournament?

Is there a date set for us?

posted on Nov, 12 2010 @ 06:34 PM
You can open our debate, since both Skyfloating and I are ready, if at all possible please. I should be ready to post my intro at sometime tonight. The subject matter is not really my cup of tea (though the opposing view is), so I'm just brushing up on my main argument and looking forward to learning something new in the process. Thanks.


posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 11:08 AM
Voting for the weekend off and a fresh start on Monday Morning/Afternoon...

That should give ample time for everyone to note that Round Two is imminent...and how will the 24 hour time stamp be decided? Will Semper post in the thread when he opens them or will there be a general announcement made here?

posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 11:33 AM
reply to post by spy66

I managed to get internet access here and check in. When I get home (later today or tomorrow) I will have the files I saved when I was working on the junior tournament, which will make it much easier for me to be sure the tournament is properly seeded and that they get the same high quality of topics that the senior tournament is getting.

I will also be sending out a mass u2u to those who enrolled and if need be putting out a new call for alternates (we have none that I remember off the top of my head now) once I get home.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 12:27 AM
I'm back. I have a snap decision just to make this as smooth as possible. I will unlock the threads and you may proceed when ready. 24 deadlines will not go into force until Monday. Early monday if one or both participants in a debate have not yet posted, I will send a U2U to those who have not posted letting them know that debates are open and that the clock will begin ticking later in the day. At the end of monday, I will post that time limits begin (in this thread) and u2u you all with a link. The time stamp on that post will be the point from which we count down to the 24 hour deadline.

So debates are about to be unlocked, go whenever you want, and I'll take action Monday that makes it work out smoothly.

Tomorrow I will prepare the junior tournament and hopefully get all the way to sending u2us out. If I do, it is possible that the junior tournament could also begin Monday.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 03:12 PM
I am in the process of setting up the junior tournament. We need one more participant for that ASAP. I am going to proceed with setting it up, but we can't actually start until we find one more person who wants to debate- open to anyone, even if you didn't confirm on time earlier- whoever jumps on this one first gets it.

u2u me if you want in.
edit on Sun 14 Nov 2010 by The Vagabond because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 03:32 PM
All Senior Tournament Round 2 Participants should have just gotten a u2u to make sure everyone knows that debates are unlocked and may begin, but that time limits don't begin till Monday, etc.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 03:34 PM
reply to post by The Vagabond

Thanks for everything you are doing, Vagabond...the effort is epic and much appreciated...

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 03:43 PM
Our 15 participants (one is missing still) for the junior tournament are: Operation Mindcrime, Spy66, Pinke, Nosred, abe froman, OnceReturned, naeem11111, Death_Kron, Zarathustria, JimIrie, The Djin, Spikey, jennybee35, DevolutionEvolvd, Westcoast.

All have been u2u'd to give a heads up. Topics going up shortly but will be locked. Topics for the junior tournament will be unlocked late today or early monday, and then time limits for the junior tournament will be suspended during opening statements just like they were in the first round of the senior tournament.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 04:09 PM
reply to post by The Vagabond

Is this some way of saying I am really old? That I am the Arnold Palmer of the ATS Debate World? That I should be eligible for an AARP Membership?

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 04:10 PM
reply to post by The Vagabond

Thank you! I am looking forward to what is sure to be a HUGE learning experience!!

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 04:13 PM
Good luck in the debates.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 04:23 PM
The Djin is out. We now have two openings for the junior tournament. First come first serve. U2U me.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 04:30 PM
Meant to post this earlier, but wanted to say I was sorry for having my debate last so long. I really really REALLY hate winning by default (especially since I put a lot of effort into my side) that I wanted to give my opponent as much time as possible before the boss poked me with a sharp stick.

Anyway, glad to be in round 2, hope my debate was worthy.

Salty and I are in for an odd one with our "colonization" topic.


posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 06:06 PM
Epiphron has joined the junior debate tournament. One opening remains in the tournament.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 02:48 AM
Tips and answers to frequently asked questions for the junior tournament:
Q. How does the character limit work?
A. If i copy and paste your post as it appears in the thread into a character counter (which does not count spaces, but counts everything else) and it's more than 10,000, then I the end until it's exactly 10,000. This is a character counter you can use.

Q. How does time work?
A. If it has been 24 hours since the last post in the thread, then you are late, and your opponent can cause you to miss a post by posting again before you submit your response. If you miss two posts this way, you lose. If your opponent is tired of waiting for you but doesn't want to bother posting since you didn't (or doesn't want to gain an advantage that way) he can just post "I forfeit my post as well" and then it's back to you, with a new 24 hour count-down. If your opponent is late for the second time, just post again and you win- or you can wait for him if you are a good sport- though if its holding up the tournament I will u2u you to encourage you to make your opponent miss a post.

Q. What about the opening statement grace period.
A. Nobody will miss their opening statement. If you are on the "con" side and are waiting for your opponent to post, but it isn't happening, let me know. I will check on your opponent by u2u, then either tell you how long the wait will be, or replace your opponent if he won't be able to participate in a timely manner. After the "con" posts his opening statement, the "pro" has 24 hours from the date stamp on the last post to respond, then after that the "con" has 24 hours, etc.

Q. Who's time zone is the date stamp set for?
A. The date stamp will appear for the time zone that you have set in your profile. So if I post at 9AM Pacific, someone on Eastern Time would see a date stamp that said noon. As long as there is 24 hours difference between what the last post says and what a post you make will say, you may cut your opponent off. If you aren't sure what time your new posts date stamp will say, just post in another thread and look at the date stamp there to compare.

Q. How are topics and opponents assigned (can i pick a topic, etc)?
A. Debaters are seeded by debate ranking, then by WATS index, then by Star Count (ranking takes precedence, then the next two are tie breakers). 1st seed faces 16th, 2nd faces 15th, 3rd faces 14th, 4th faces 13th, 5th faces 12th, 6th faces 11th, 7th faces 10th, 8th faces 9th. Opponent pairs are then assigned numbers, as are the topics which were chosen beforehand. Numbers are then randomly paired, then decoded- so nobody gets a topic custom fit for them, and nobody gets arbitrarily assigned tougher or easier opponents. If you'd like to choose a certain opponent, or a certain topic, a challenge match is the answer. These are explained in the rules and rankings thread in the debate forum.

Q. I'm not completely sure about the scope of my assigned topic.
A. Additional information about the topic is generally not offered.
Traditionally, debaters have interpreted/defined propositions (topics) in the terms they find reasonable/advantageous, so long as they can find some support for that interpretation/definition in the topic as phrased.
Sometimes the definition of the topic actually becomes a secondary point of debate, although debaters are encouraged to stipulate between themselves, either beforehand or after resolving disagreement on definition/topical focus in the early posts of the debate.

Q. Will you edit a problem with my post?
A. If it's interfering with the debate and/or wasn't really your fault, I will if I have time and can find a good solution. Do anything you can possibly think of to just get it right the first time.

Q. I'm not going to be available for a day or two.
A. Talk to your opponent. If they agree to wait for you, I won't make them cut you off, as long as you aren't significantly delaying the progress of the tournament. A single 48-72 hour wait by mutual agreement has been accepted in several past debates.

Q. I'm stressed and lots of things are going wrong.
A. Have fun. I'd rather twist the topic into something interesting, crack jokes that irritate the judges, and find out too late that my post was too manic for anyone to follow and risk losing than stress like it was a term paper, only to find out that my only reward for winning is yet another "term paper". Minimize stress by using tools. Especially a word processor to save your progress so you can walk away for a break while composing posts and can't be wiped out by a browser crash.

Q. What can I ask in a socratic question?
A. Anything that ends in a question mark.

Q. How do I have to answer a socratic question?
A. Honestly. If it's a yes/no or either/or question, the right thing to do is make "yes" or "no" (or "choice a" or "choice b", or whatever) the first word, then provide any qualifications, explanations, rebuttals of the question, etc afterward, but ultimately its up to the judges to decide if you were being evasive and how much they will hold that against you, so press your luck if you dare.

Q. My opponent didn't answer my question at all.
A. I'll u2u him to see whats up. If he agrees, he can submit a response to me by u2u to be edited into his post. If he doesn't, use that against him in your debate and hope the judges see it the same way and penalize him. After the answer to a question is edited in, the time limit begins again at 24 hours (i will post in the thread to provide a new date stamp).

Q. How do I label Socratic Questions.
A. You can just number them 1-5 at the bottom of your post, but if they are in the body of the post, I like to use either bold or caps and label them "Socratic Question" or SQ. If you don't label a question as an SQ, there's more reason to believe that your opponent honestly missed it, and less likelihood the judges will hold a non-answer against him.

Q. I'm from Canada, so capitalizing the first letter of my name is some kind of insult.
A. Even if you let me know, I will probably forget again in a future tournament, so please u2u me if I botch your name in the thread title and you want it changed (that's mostly a joke, but seriously, if you have any raw nerves, let me know and within reason i will avoid striking them).

Basic explanation of debating:
You and an opponent will be assigned a proposition at random. One will argue pro (that the statement made in the topic is true) the other will argue the con (that the statement is not true). The "pro" always posts first, the "con" always gets the last word. You get five posts each. Limited links, external quotes, and photos are allowed, and evidence is important, however ultimately your own ability to tie an argument together and present it persuasively is the key issue being tested. All tactics within the Terms and Conditions and the debate rules are allowed- you don't have to be strictly logical, formal, academic, or any way at all- as long as you are presenting some kind of compelling argument, you're doing fine.

Judges now receive the following instructions:

Please read the entire debate carefully. The debater whose argument most effectively promotes the assigned position shall be the winner. Only the argument as presented in the debate thread may be considered: Judges shall not consider any support or contradiction of a point of argument unless that support or contradiction is provided by the debaters in their posts either explicitly or implicitly.

All methods of argument are acceptable and must be considered, however judges may consider the relative effectiveness of differing methods of argument. The effectiveness of the arguments may be judged by whatever method a judge chooses, provided that all arguments are considered. This also applies in cases of "asymmetric" debates, in which two differing styles of argument cause either a lack of direct contradictions between the two positions or a change in the scope of the debate (including but not limited to conflicts over definitions or the relevance of arguments, etc).

Stars, Flags, the "reputation" of participants, outside commentary on debates, and all other external factors shall be ignored in the judging process.

The following are the debate rules/instructions as they will appear in your assigned threads

The topic for this debate is "The Vagabond isn't as funny as he thinks.”

Joe Schmuckatelli will be arguing the "Pro" position and begin the debate.
Richard Snuggles will be arguing the "Con" position.

The Debate Forum Bill of Rights shall govern any objection to the assigned topic. If such objection exists, please U2U the moderator who posted this thread. Time limits shall be suspended pending a ruling on any such objection.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

There is a 10,000 character limit per post- this includes all characters including punctuation and spaces, as counted when copied from their display in the thread (where BB code is hidden and thus does not count).

Any character count in excess of 10,000 will be deleted prior to the judging process.

Editing of posts is strictly forbidden. For reasons of time, mod edits should not be expected except in critical situations. Requests for critical edits (affecting visibility of post or function of links for example) should be U2U'd to the moderator who posted this debate thread.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references. Video and audio files are NOT allowed.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post. Each individual post may contain up to 10 sentences of external source material, totaled from all external sources. Be cognizant of what you quote as excess sentences will be removed prior to judging.

Links to multiple pages within a single domain count as 1 reference but there is a maximum of 3 individual links per reference, then further links from that domain count as a new reference. Excess quotes and excess links will be removed before judging.

The Socratic Debate Rule is in effect. Each debater may ask up to 5 questions in each post, except for in closing statements- no questions are permitted in closing statements. These questions should be clearly labeled as "Question 1, Question 2, etc.

When asked a question, a debater must give a straight forward answer in his next post. Explanations and qualifications to an answer are acceptable, but must be preceded by a direct answer.

This Is The Time Limit Policy:
Opening statements shall not be forfeit as a result of time limits. If an opening statement is not posted within 24 hours, a minimum of 24 additional hours will be allowed and a reasonable effort will be made to contact the late poster and make arrangements before any substitution of competitors is undertaken.

Each debate must post within 24 hours of the timestamp on the last post. If your opponent is late, you may post immediately without waiting for an announcement of turn forfeiture. If you are late, you may post late, unless your opponent has already posted.

Each debater is entitled to one extension of 24 hours. The request for a 24 hour extension should be posted in this thread and is automatically granted- the 24 hour extension begins at the expiration of the previous deadline, not at the time of the extension request.

In the unlikely event that tardiness results in simultaneous posting by both debaters, the late post will be deleted unless it appears in its proper order in the thread.

If a participant misses 2 posts in a debate, it will be then declared a forfeiture. In the event where the debate continues, once a debate forum staff member is able to respond, the debate will be closed and awarded to the winning participant.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

In the Tournament, winners will be awarded 2 points for each debate they win.

All Terms and Conditions Apply at all times in all debate formats.

Paragraph by paragraph breakdown of the rules can be found in this post

Rankings and Bill of Rights contains additional information on how the debate forum works.

Sample debates for learning (All of these are mine, because I know my own debates very very well- I read them regularly- I do not mean to slight anyone or be a self promoter):
Championship Debate: Rdube02 v The Vagabond (good examples of organization and use of sources on both sides).

Holiday Skirmish: MemoryShock vs The Vagabond (This debate contained a definition quarrel that ran all the way through the debate, without completely replacing other arguments. Also some use of humor.)

Exhibition Match: The Vagabond vs Semperfortis (The topic was "the pen is mightier than the sword"- it was impossible to prove either side, so it all came down to being able to construct a case with its own internal logic).

The Vagabond vs Byrd (This debate was in large part driven by rebuttal, and like a lot my debates took on a semi-hostile tone- both debaters came out feeling beaten, yet both were widely praised and the debate ended in a tie.)

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 03:16 AM
Junior Tournament debates have been posted. One topic is still missing a debater- anyone who wants can jump on it, just u2u me.

24 hour limits are not in effect until each debater has posted in his proper turn for opening statements. Nobody will be replaced for tardiness/nonresponsiveness to u2us until at least Wednesday. If you are on the "pro" side of your debate, you may post when ready. If you are on the "con" side, you may post anytime after your opponent does.

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