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Muslims to burn US flags in protest of Koran burnings

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posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Ben81
 


you know something else just occured to me. If don't seem to have any problem at all that Americans are insulted and offended yet you seem militant that we should not offend muslims. Why is that?
Just curious.




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Part of the absurdity of some of these arguments is the offenders are usually pretty generic. A handful of unidentified Muslims on YouTube videos burning flags, become the catalyst to lump all Muslims together. A handful of unidentified people burning Qurans become the catalyst to lump all Americans together.

Where Jones is concerned he deigned to identify himself as one such person.

It would be great if we lived in a world where everyone attempted to take that kind of ownership of their actions, to where they identify they are individually responsible for doing something like that.

It seems to me what we need is a neutral place on the planet, much like Panmunjom is the neutral village between the divided Koreas, where like Mecca or the Grand Canyon people could make a once in a lifetime pilgrimage to burn or destroy a flag or a religious book in a room full of other offenders on the polar opposite side.

That way people who want to burn a flag can actually be held to account by people burning a Quran in retaliation, the offenders would no longer be anonymous to one another, and only the people wanting to undergo the time and expense to travel there and do that would be involved instead of trying to generically lump all the rest of us, into neat little groups to vilify us all in the process, even though its really just a few nuts and frustrated ignorant individuals who do and support such things.

The rest of us would no longer be pressured to choose a side, or identified in being involved in this practice.

In fact rather than spend so much money on War we could actually use our tax money to buy anyone anywhere in the world, who wants to go to this neutral location airfare there! So they wouldn’t have to muse and fume on places like ATS, pretending everyone that doesn’t agree with them is aligned with some nefarious group.

The could go, get it out of their system, and realize then that after they burned that flag or Quran that life is just the same, you aren’t any taller, your teeth aren’t any whiter, your bank account is not any fatter, your posture is not any straighter, your car still requires gasoline, and you still have to pay for your goods at the grocery store and your rent or mortgage on time.

The rest of us could then engage in intelligent conversations instead of HAVING TO BABYSIT a bunch of three year olds and WASTING OUR TIME trying to get you to play nicely with one another.

I believe we should call this place Vacation Flag Quran Bible Torah Land other wise known as THE MOST MISSERABLE PLACE ON EARTH.

Designed especially for little kids, very little kids of all ages!



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The rest of us could then engage in intelligent conversations instead of HAVING TO BABYSIT a bunch of three year olds and WASTING OUR TIME trying to get you to play nicely with one another.

I believe we should call this place Vacation Flag Quran Bible Torah Land other wise known as THE MOST MISSERABLE PLACE ON EARTH.

Designed especially for little kids, very little kids of all ages!

You may think FREEDOM is childish and THE CONSTITUTION is miserable but some people don't. It's a shame you can't see what's really going on here.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


I do see what's going on here, people wanting to use their constitutional right to be a bigot and hateful.

It's real simple. Yes you have a right to be a bigot and hateful, and to express that through free speech, what you don't have a right to do is not to be held to account by your fellow humans for being a bigot and hateful.

That's how that works.

There are a million otherways to express one's appreciation for the constitution besides checking to see if you are still allowed to be a bigot and hateful.

Clearly lots of people did go ahead and burn Qurans yesterday including in efigee even in cyber, as you yourself chose to, no one was arrested for doing that, and ATS didn't censor or remove the posts where you but a burning Quran Giff, in thread after thread and post after post.

The reality is that your hero/zero Jones was looking for fortune and fame and realized all he was in fact accomplishing was having people here in America and all around the world see him as a hate fill bigot.

The government has no obligation to protect hate filled bigots, they simply grant them the freedom to be hateful bigots.

The consequences of that are the individuals to bear, not the governments.

The man sought to create a media event around being hate filled and a bigot and he succeeded in doing that.

As mentioned to you time and time again, the man's own congregation in Germany kicked him out of the Church he himself founded because they couldn't tolerate any longer the hate and bigotry and fear he was preaching.

Your arguments are utterly pointless and futile my friend.

This issue has nothing to do with the constitution, it has to do with a man choosing to make himself notorious who then thought better of it, once he realized what really comes along with being notorious.

But hey if you are so committed, try staking your own reputation and stature to get a International Burn A Quran day too, and paint yourself in the same way, and show us how dedicated you are to this so called Constitutional Issue that you become synonomous the world over for wanting to carry out an act of hate and bigotry, and follow all the way through, and show us how it's done!

Laugh out loud, the Constitution is not what gaurantees your rights under nature, you yourself do. Whining and complaining doesn't gaurantee them either, doing what you want to do and taking responsibility for it does.

You my friend are clearly the one that does not get this issue.

Nor do a lot of other people who are blinded by hate, anger and fear, and driven to an agenda that is all about those things.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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well
at least they aren't
burning humans this time.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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This is my first post so um take it easy.Is it just me or should they be buring the bible not our flag? It is the church not the U.S burning the Koran. Not they that they should just saying.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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im not a muslim, but ill burn a flag AND a bible AND a book of Torah, just to make it all copacetic.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Algea Turtle
This is my first post so um take it easy.Is it just me or should they be buring the bible not our flag? It is the church not the U.S burning the Koran. Not they that they should just saying.


I am pretty sure I can answer this one for you. How many Muslims have we seen burning flags? There are well over a billion Muslims in the world. I have seen less than 0.000001 percent of these Muslims burning flags. Now what does it say all over ATS? "Some Muslims burn flags?", "A few Muslims are burning flags?", "A small minority of Muslims burn flags?"

What I see everywhere is simply "Muslims are burning flags." Subsequent posts are all bashing "Muslims" in general for burning flags. Apparently seeing a few Muslims burning flags makes enlightened, educated, informed, adults believe all Muslims are buring flags.

Now just imagine how Muslims the world over are being shown this example of "Americans burning that Koran." I cannot help but think that if in America where we have cable such worldwide media inundation we are still too stupid to seperate a tiny group of people from the whole, they why should we expect any better of anyone else?

I get the impression from ATS that most of the angry people here believe that the rest of the world should know better and behave better but America should act like angry little cavemen and get respected for it.


edit on 12-9-2010 by Curiousisall because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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Muslims would try to slit your throat if you accused them of adhering to a violent religion, so I'm hardly surprised. Does anyone see the hypocrisy here? I say it's time we stopped coddling them and apologizing for their evil behavior.

To quote a sign I saw, "Tolerance without reciprocation is appeasement". I'm done appeasing and apologizing for terrorists. If it requires a few burned Korans to make ones point than so be it.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by Curiousisall
 


Ah I see what you are saying and i agree: people have to stop judging goups for what a few do. it is like saying all women are gold diggers just cause a few are.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by SevenThunders
 


Newt Gingrich has a new movie out explaing how evil and violent Muslims are. Terry Jones is selling a book about how Islam is evil and violent. Their throats seem pretty intact to me. My Muslim neighbors, as far as I know have not slit any throats yet and believe me they have heard all about how and why they suck and should go home (all born Americans by the way), but I will be sure and double check tomorrow and see if they have been slaughtering people without mentioning it to me.

Other than that, you exemplify the kind of narrowminded viewpoints that our real enemies want you to have. The best way to get you to not see someone coming is to convince you to put on your tunnel vision goggles and concentrate on someone else.


edit on 12-9-2010 by Curiousisall because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jfj123
 


I do see what's going on here, people wanting to use their constitutional right to be a bigot and hateful.

It's real simple. Yes you have a right to be a bigot and hateful, and to express that through free speech, what you don't have a right to do is not to be held to account by your fellow humans for being a bigot and hateful.

Actually that's EXACTLY what the CONSTITUTION says. You CAN express your RIGHTS without the fear of REPRISAL for doing so. That's part of the double edged sword of FREEDOM. You can't pick and choose who gets RIGHTS. You obviously want to be the rights police but it doesn't work that way.


That's how that works.

No, that's how you want it to work.


There are a million otherways to express one's appreciation for the constitution besides checking to see if you are still allowed to be a bigot and hateful.

Of course there are. The idiot pastor just doesn't want to pursue those.


Clearly lots of people did go ahead and burn Qurans yesterday including in efigee even in cyber, as you yourself chose to

YEP !

, no one was arrested for doing that,

But the US government tried to use intimidation to limit peoples CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. That doesn't bother you? Oh you must like it when the government steps in and tells us all what to do right?


and ATS didn't censor or remove the posts

And I applaud them for that ! They refused to bow to terror and fear unlike the company that owns Comedy Central and the US government. Good for the ATS crew for having a big brass set !


where you but a burning Quran Giff, in thread after thread and post after post.

Oh you mean the 2 threads where I posted that thanks to another poster for uploading it? Maybe I should post it in more since it did such a great job of getting YOUR attention



The reality is that your hero/zero Jones

He's not my hero. When have I EVER said that? Show me 1 time where I suggested he was a hero. I've posted just the opposite in, "thread after thread and post after post" (who knew that phrase would come back at you so quick huh ?
) Once again, I think jones is a complete moron. I've never suggested anything else.


was looking for fortune and fame and realized all he was in fact accomplishing was having people here in America and all around the world see him as a hate fill bigot.

And again, you miss the point. It's not about him but his RIGHTS. Of course he's a hate filled bigot but in this country, as long as he does so within the bounds of the law, HE HAS A RIGHT TO BE A HATE FILLED BIGOT. Again, why can't you understand that you or anyone else can't pick and choose who gets RIGHTS and who doesn't. Do you understand that once this starts to happen, NOBODIES rights are protected??


The government has no obligation to protect hate filled bigots, they simply grant them the freedom to be hateful bigots.

Actually, The United States of America DOES have the obligation to protect EVERYONE'S RIGHTS, even a hate filled bigots rights because, we have this thing called a CONSTITUTION. Obviously based on this statement, you are not a US citizen or you would have never wrote it.


The consequences of that are the individuals to bear, not the governments.

Not true. It's part of The United States governments job to ensure all US citizens CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS are PROTECTED.


The man sought to create a media event around being hate filled and a bigot and he succeeded in doing that.

So ? are you suggesting that we take away everyone's rights who anyone think are bigoted and/or hate filled? think carefully about this statement before answering.


As mentioned to you time and time again, the man's own congregation in Germany kicked him out of the Church he himself founded because they couldn't tolerate any longer the hate and bigotry and fear he was preaching.

Good for them. Maybe that will happen here too ! But, that is irrelevant to this discussion.


Your arguments are utterly pointless and futile my friend.

Obviously you believe FREEDOM, The United States Constitution, etc.. are pointless. How sad.


This issue has nothing to do with the constitution,

This issue has EVERYTHING to do with the Constitution. That's the only point of the issue that has merit. How sad you can't understand that. I hope whatever country you live in, it's citizens don't believe as you do or you will be living under a marshal state and you will have no rights.


But hey if you are so committed, try staking your own reputation and stature to get a International Burn A Quran day too, and paint yourself in the same way, and show us how dedicated you are to this so called Constitutional Issue that you become synonomous the world over for wanting to carry out an act of hate and bigotry, and follow all the way through, and show us how it's done!

Is english not your first or second language? Please re-read my posts. Ask questions with regard to the few big words, etc... If you actually understood anything i've posted, you'll know how absurd this statement is.


Laugh out loud, the Constitution is not what gaurantees your rights under nature, you yourself do.

Nature has no rights so that is a pointless comment.
In reality, WE THE PEOPLE... created a new government and CONSTITUTION and then vested that government with protecting our RIGHTS. If you like I can post some links that may help you understand US history. Just let me know.

Below is the preamble to THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION...one of the greatest documents ever written. You should learn a bit more about it before it's too late for YOUR FREEDOM in whatever country you live in.

[font=Book Antiqua]

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[/font]

You really need to learn what these words REALLY mean if you are going to discuss FREEDOM and the CONSTITUTION.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by Curiousisall
and believe me they have heard all about how and why they suck and should go home (all born Americans by the way),

I live in Michigan which has the largest muslim/arabic population in the United States and I haven't heard of any issues as of late. They are always welcome to move to Michigan
We're happy to have them ! I would just suggest they not move to Detroit or Flint



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 





Nature has no rights so that is a pointless comment.


First off the only entity that does have rights is nature. A bear has the right to eat you while camping at Yellow Stone, waving your constitution which you are in reality only using to obscure a religious and bigoted agenda will not protect you from the hungry bear.

A Hurricane has the right to blow your house down and impale you on a tree branch hurled into you and through you at 200 miles an hour. The constitution that you are claiming can only protect you if you celebrate bigotry and religious intollerance through it, will absolutely not stop that Hurricane or any of the forces of nature it can manipulate.

A winter freeze has the right to freeze you to death, wrapping yourself in the Constitution you are trying to manipulate others into a bigoted campaign of persecuting an entire religion for the acts of a few people who belong to it, will not keep you from freezing.

Nor will it save you from being swept away in a flood, or expiring of dehydration in the blazing heat.

Nature has absolute rights, where you have limited yourself and others to only the ones you interpret as put forward by a piece of paper.

The most enslaved man is the one who imagines he is free, free to think in limited terms as put forward by a piece of paper, he adheres to.

Nature has no such restrictions.

Nature has absolute rights, where once again you are only talking about liberties as put forward by a controlling goverment body as priveleges.




In reality, WE THE PEOPLE... created a new government and CONSTITUTION and then vested that government with protecting our RIGHTS. If you like I can post some links that may help you understand US history. Just let me know.



Once again no one denied this man the right under nature to act and speak as he saw fit, and no one denied him the liberty to do that under the constitution either.

As pointed out to you, no one who burned a Quran on International Quran day was arested by the State. So no one's rights were violated.

If you use your right to free speech to be a bigot and it offends others to the point that they want to react to that bigot to limit the inherent dangers bigots represent, the government has no obligation to protect you from your fellow humans, it simply has an obligation not to arrest you and punish you.

Your right to free speech and expression does not mean you won't be held to account by others who see a possible threat or offense in what you say or express if it is bigoted and hateful and fundamentally flawed and wrong.

I live in what is part of what is traditionally the deep south. One of my favorite people is a supervisor at the Grocery Store and she is an older black woman. So old in fact when she was a little girl, people our age would not have been able to interact in the way we do with one another, because of bigotry, so everyone suffers when bigots rule.

You have the right to be a bigot, and no one is going to take away anyone's Confederate Battle Flag, their Nazi Memrobillia, or their Islam is the Devil Coffee Mug.

Yet you are only going to gain the respect of a minority who share those same views as you.

The constitution worked as it was designed to do, no one was arrested who burned, urinated on defecated upon or shredded anything on International Burn a Quran day.

It's safe to say you are simply upset because it did not provoke or keep in the spot light your own agenda that revolves around villifying Islam and anyone who practices it as being a terrorist in your mind.

The funny thing is because you live in fear of nature, the nature of human beings that won't allow you to dictate to them, based on your singular perspective you are terrorized by that.

Because as I said, Nature has absolute right always, and Nature is the one thing a piece of paper can't controll.

Brain washed idiots, yes, open minded human beings and nature? No!

See how that works, try not to pout to much now.

By the way if you ever read the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolutionary War, you would know it was Rome and the English King who dictated that the Constitution be written and the Census conducted every ten years.

You have no idea even where you are living. You live in Rome, and your history is entirely romantacized accounts for select individual's posterirty and to manipulate along the emotional lines you have been, that makes you want to fight 1/3 of the world's population on behalf of your Roman Masters.






edit on 13/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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Muslims respect the teachings of Jesus Christ. They think he was a prophet, but Muhammad is their messiah. This is why they are not burning the Holy Bible. I wish Christians could respect the teachings of Muhammad. I hope this knowledge helps calm some hatred.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Algea Turtle
This is my first post so um take it easy.Is it just me or should they be buring the bible not our flag? It is the church not the U.S burning the Koran. Not they that they should just saying.

They are showing some respect for another religion, and hatred of nationalistic pride demonstrated out of ignorance.



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jfj123
 





Nature has no rights so that is a pointless comment.



First off the only entity that does have rights is nature.

If you could provide the legal statutes to support this claim, I'd appreciate it.


A bear has the right to eat you while camping at Yellow Stone, waving your constitution which you are in reality only using to obscure a religious and bigoted agenda will not protect you from the hungry bear.

Wow what a completely pointless statement. But thanks for playing.


A Hurricane has the right to blow your house down and impale you on a tree branch hurled into you and through you at 200 miles an hour. The constitution that you are claiming can only protect you if you celebrate bigotry and religious intollerance through it, will absolutely not stop that Hurricane or any of the forces of nature it can manipulate.

Wow yet another completely pointless statement.


The most enslaved man is the one who imagines he is free, free to think in limited terms as put forward by a piece of paper, he adheres to.

Did you get that piece of bovine feces from a fortune cookie?


Nature has absolute rights, where once again you are only talking about liberties as put forward by a controlling goverment body as priveleges.

Yeah your hippie ramblings have nothing to do with the topic on this thread. Pick a different thread to hug a tree.


In reality, WE THE PEOPLE... created a new government and CONSTITUTION and then vested that government with protecting our RIGHTS. If you like I can post some links that may help you understand US history. Just let me know.



Once again no one denied this man the right under nature to act and speak as he saw fit, and no one denied him the liberty to do that under the constitution either.

Surprisingly you are incorrect again.
To start, the US government tried to pressure him into silence which is a attack on his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
Next, terrorists threatened him with death if he attempted to exercise his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. This is a VIOLATION of his rights, in and of itself.


As pointed out to you, no one who burned a Quran on International Quran day was arested by the State. So no one's rights were violated.

Incorrect. What you're suggesting is that it is ok to intimidate, coerce and threaten someone into silence as long as that person isn't arrested...this has got to be one of the most inane arguments I've ever heard on ATS. Congrats on that !


If you use your right to free speech to be a bigot and it offends others to the point that they want to react to that bigot to limit the inherent dangers bigots represent, the government has no obligation to protect you from your fellow humans, it simply has an obligation not to arrest you and punish you.

Actually it does. Check the law before you make things up.
As example, if the KKK wants to march, the government is legally obligated to make sure they are protected so they may exercise their rights. Again, feel free to check federal law on the matter.


Your right to free speech and expression does not mean you won't be held to account by others who see a possible threat or offense in what you say or express if it is bigoted and hateful and fundamentally flawed and wrong.

Actually it does. Take a law class...you obviously need one as you have no idea what the law says on this subject.


You have the right to be a bigot, and no one is going to take away anyone's Confederate Battle Flag, their Nazi Memrobillia, or their Islam is the Devil Coffee Mug.

Yet you are only going to gain the respect of a minority who share those same views as you.

True AND irrelevant.


It's safe to say you are simply upset because it did not provoke or keep in the spot light your own agenda that revolves around villifying Islam and anyone who practices it as being a terrorist in your mind.

You once again have no idea what you are talking about. Big surprise there huh

I have no problem with islam or an other religion or belief system as long as it does not impinge on anyone's rights. I have absolutely no agenda against ANY faith/religion as I have stated before but you obviously did not care to read.


The funny thing is because you live in fear of nature,

Really? Are we back to this nature crap again? We are not talking about nature, flowers, trees, the birds and bee's. We are talking about THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION. Please try and stay on topic.


the nature of human beings that won't allow you to dictate to them, based on your singular perspective you are terrorized by that.

HUH ?!?!?


Because as I said, Nature has absolute right always, and Nature is the one thing a piece of paper can't controll.

Oh pllleaaasssee. Again, talk your nature crap in a thread where it is the actual topic.


You have no idea even where you are living. You live in Rome, and your history is entirely romantacized accounts for select individual's posterirty and to manipulate along the emotional lines you have been, that makes you want to fight 1/3 of the world's population on behalf of your Roman Masters.





edit on 13-9-2010 by jfj123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 





Actually that's EXACTLY what the CONSTITUTION says. You CAN express your RIGHTS without the fear of REPRISAL for doing so. That's part of the double edged sword of FREEDOM. You can't pick and choose who gets RIGHTS. You obviously want to be the rights police but it doesn't work that way.


1. As pointed out to you 10,000 times that is reprisal from the government you do not have to fear. Reprisal from your fellow human being is something you have to consider. If they break the law in their reprisal, then yes they can be held to account, but that will not change the fact that they may have chosen to react to what you say, or how you express yourself.

2. I am saying very clearly, everyone has an equal right under nature's laws to live as they see fit, provided they are prepared to be held accountable for their actions.

3. You might want to check with the Supreme Court on how you are interpreting the Constitution. The only 9 people who are entitled to liberally and with any enforcement power are the 9 politically appointed justices that sit on the Surpreme Court.




No, that's how you want it to work.


I think any rational person would agree that nature continues to rule the planet supreme. When you have that weather control machine, that wild animal mind control machine, the ocean control machine up and running you let me know.

It's not how I want it to work, it's how nature want's it to work.

That is how that works.




Of course there are. The idiot pastor just doesn't want to pursue those.


Apparently neither do you!




But the US government tried to use intimidation to limit peoples CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. That doesn't bother you? Oh you must like it when the government steps in and tells us all what to do right?


People pay doctors, lawyers, and accountants, and psychologists for sound professional advice. You have no evidence of the government intimidating Jones, what you do have is evidence of the Government advising Jones his actions may have unintended consequences to himself and others, and to think carefully before acting.

That's good advice, which he seems to have taken. Government's job is to protect and to serve, if who you need protecting from is your own stupidity then yes, Government points that out all the time. Try driving 120 miles an hour in a school zone and see what the Police have to say about your thinking process.




And I applaud them for that ! They refused to bow to terror and fear unlike the company that owns Comedy Central and the US government. Good for the ATS crew for having a big brass set !


The terror and fear is your own, just as people exercising respect for their fellow human beings, and their religious and political practices is their own.

Did you ever stop to think if people like yourself weren't constantly over exagerating the threat of reprisals by a few extremists, that people wouldn't be so afraid.

For all you know though Comedy Central bowed to advertiser pressure, and the U.S. Government is a business that has to forge partnerships in a world we are codependent upon.

Since we don't produce much of the oil we consume, and the durable goods and services Americans use, yet maintaining good relations with the rest of the world, is an important thing.

Sorry you can't force everyone else in the world to abide by your interpretation of the Constitution, the truth is you can't get most people to abide by it here.

That's just the way it is, and being rude and belligerent to other people because you are afraid of them, and then want to pretend you aren't by doing something offensive purposefully aimed at them is only because you are afraid of them.

I on the other hand am not afraid of anyone or anything





Oh you mean the 2 threads where I posted that thanks to another poster for uploading it? Maybe I should post it in more since it did such a great job of getting YOUR attention


Actually you posted the burning Quran Giff in multiple threads and some of them even multiple times in the same thread. It doesn't take much to entertain and satisfy some people, that's for sure! I can see though how you might have lost track in the excitement of playing with your shiny new toy!




He's not my hero. When have I EVER said that? Show me 1 time where I suggested he was a hero. I've posted just the opposite in, "thread after thread and post after post" (who knew that phrase would come back at you so quick huh ? ) Once again, I think jones is a complete moron. I've never suggested anything else.


Once again people who want to upgrade the quality of their life must first upgrade the quality of their questions. Based on what criteria do you feel Jones is not a hero. Since you have not specified directly why you feel that, while you are deriding him for not burning the Qurans as he promised, it would seem to many your source of dissapointment with him was not burning the Qurans. You have made no bones about the fact that you feel everyone should have burnt a Quran because you are terrified of Islam, so one might easily assume that had Jones burned the Qurans he would have been your hero.




And again, you miss the point. It's not about him but his RIGHTS. Of course he's a hate filled bigot but in this country, as long as he does so within the bounds of the law, HE HAS A RIGHT TO BE A HATE FILLED BIGOT. Again, why can't you understand that you or anyone else can't pick and choose who gets RIGHTS and who doesn't. Do you understand that once this starts to happen, NOBODIES rights are protected??


No one took away his right to be a hateful bigot, so I have no idea what you are going on and on about. Those of us who aren't hateful bigots have a right to express our displeasure in regards to their words and expressions. That too is a constitutional right. I really wish you would try to think through your arguments on a intellectual level instead of an emotional one.

Further you seem to be confused about the nature of what liberties versus rights are. Rights are inherent from nature, only you can take your rights away, that is what makes them inalienable. Liberties are priveleges extended by goverment where government promises not to prosecute you or stop you from exercising select natural rights by allowing you that privelege within government law.

I have the right to do any darn thing I please, the rest of the world has the right to try to stop me, or punish me through force of arms, might or numbers. The only one who can limit my rights to do what ever I please are me. Even if incarcerated I have the right to try to escape!

You have tragically confused liberties with rights. No one and nothing can protect your rights but you, because your rights are your rights, they are inalienable only to the extent you yourself wish to employ them and be responsible for them.




Actually, The United States of America DOES have the obligation to protect EVERYONE'S RIGHTS, even a hate filled bigots rights because, we have this thing called a CONSTITUTION. Obviously based on this statement, you are not a US citizen or you would have never wrote it.


I am a freeman on the land born in America who has cancelled all his social contracts with the corporate military dictatorship in Washington, because I am very serious about my right to be a sovereign and independent individual free from any forced encumberments.

Citizens are an incorporated strawman entity bound to the State, the State is bound to the Federal Government, the Federal Government is bound to Washington D.C. and Washington D.C. is bound to the city of London, and the City of London is bound to Vatican City Rome.

The only entity who can protect my rights is me. The only entity I am seeking to protect my rights is me.

While you dream of someone giving you freedom enslaved to a million false dogmas, I fight for my freedom every day.

I have my entire life, and shall until the day I die.

I am in reality one of the very few free people in the United States, there is plenty of real and accurate information on ATS how you can become one too.

You know should you ever want to take responsibility for your own actions.




Not true. It's part of The United States governments job to ensure all US citizens CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS are PROTECTED.


You keep telling yourself that. I will keep on depending upon myself to ensure I exercise my rights as I deem fit.




So ? are you suggesting that we take away everyone's rights who anyone think are bigoted and/or hate filled? think carefully about this statement before answering.


The lights are on, but clearly no one is home. I take exception to bigots that is my right.

They have the right to be a bigot. That doesn't mean anyone but their fellow bigots respect their thinking or perspectives. It really is that simple.

Go up to some 350 pound Muslim, or any Minority and you give them an earful, and see how that works out for you!

You have the right to use common sense, you have the right to use wisdom, you have the right to pick and chose your battles wisely.

There are no gaurantees in life and anyone offering you one is a liar, and anyone looking for one is a fool.




Good for them. Maybe that will happen here too ! But, that is irrelevant to this discussion.


Terry Jones's past is very relevant to the discussion, it was his singular actions that prompted the whole controversy.

So him being rejected and expelled by his own congregation who got tired of his hate filled messages, and extremism, and fear mongering is very pertinent.




Obviously you believe FREEDOM, The United States Constitution, etc.. are pointless. How sad.


I believe it's possible to find intelligent conversation on ATS at times. What you refer to as freedom is simply slavery to a doctrine and document you don't even understand the purpose or origins of.

I assume your incessant complaining is because of some disatisfaction with your own false notions of these things, so the good news is that you might actually figure out one day, hopefully before you engage in World War III for the sake of those who have so decieved you.




This issue has EVERYTHING to do with the Constitution. That's the only point of the issue that has merit. How sad you can't understand that. I hope whatever country you live in, it's citizens don't believe as you do or you will be living under a marshal state and you will have no rights.


The great news is I am a human being, while I was born in the United States I am not a product of it, but nature and natures laws and natures freedoms. One day you will perhaps realize how you have enslaved yourself to others failed ideas of nation, god and king.

In the meantime I freely keep on keeping on, impervious to the peer pressures and speculation of others!

I am free!




Is english not your first or second language? Please re-read my posts. Ask questions with regard to the few big words, etc... If you actually understood anything i've posted, you'll know how absurd this statement is.


Oh my, said the spider to the fly! You don't understand anything you have posted, I on the other hand understand exactly what you have posted.

I hope one day you do too!




Nature has no rights so that is a pointless comment.


Wow, nature can do exactly what it pleases, and there is not an entity in the world that can stop it or punish it.

Can I have a hit of that stuff please!

It seems really good.




In reality, WE THE PEOPLE... created a new government and CONSTITUTION and then vested that government with protecting our RIGHTS. If you like I can post some links that may help you understand US history. Just let me know.


Wow unless you are 240 plus years old you haven't created anything but a lot of tortured posts.

The people you are referring to were Masons and Lawyers retained by the King of Madrid, the King of the Netherlands, and the King of England all acting on behalf of Rome to incorporate under new management and assume all old debts and liabilities and pay those debts back in there entirety plus interest and penalties which so far they have failed to do in entirety.

They were given the option to either have the King of England in his capacity as prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire to appoint a King for the new incorporated body, or to model a Republic off of Roman standards, which they opted to do. The King of England still retained his rights as prince elector (he can choose our president) and as arch-treasurer of the United States of America (which is why foreign banks the Bank of England controls our money on behalf of Rome) in fact it was the King acting in his capacity as a prince elector and arch-treasurer of the Holy Roman Empire that actually coined the name, the United States of America and further dictated a Census be conducted once ever 10 years, to establish the incorporated entity management's credit worthiness.

It's all spelled out in the Treaty of Paris.




You really need to learn what these words REALLY mean if you are going to discuss FREEDOM and the CONSTITUTION.


I am not discussing slavery to a fictional premise nor can you dictate to a free man.

You on the other hand are discussing how you are enslaved to the fictional premises of this piece of paper, and attempting to dictate terms of slavery to a free man.

Good luck with that.

Thanks for the entertainment, by the way I suggest you spend some of your time on ATS learning about the real nature of the world you live in. How it really works, and who is really running it and to what end and purpose.

There are some very intelligent and perceptive people on the site, consider learning something from them.

There is no shame in being a slave, but you alone have the obligation and responsibility of freeing yourself from it.

Thanks.






edit on 13/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2010 @ 04:59 AM
link   
This is an article I recommend Muslims to read:


How absurd is it that the deranged pastor of a tiny Florida church can make the entire world hold its breath just by threatening to burn a book?

The Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville is a hate-filled nut, for sure. But nothing he's done or vowed to do in offering what can only be viewed rationally as a minor insult to Islam merits the paranoia in the West about a worldwide wave of bloodshed at the hands of offended radicals.

...

Yeah, I know -- all Muslims aren't mayhem makers. But the lunatic fringe is apparently wide enough to trigger an extreme overreaction from our nation's top offices to a silly little publicity stunt.

If Muslim sensibilities are so tender they can't ignore the bizarre rants of an insignificant American fanatic then this is a culture with a serious anger management issue, and one the West can't help with.

There's no way to head-off every potential slight to Islam. Last time it was Danish cartoons, this time it's a Pentecostal pew jumper who lays down his snakes to strike a match.


Detroit News


I have yet to see protests in Western cities against flag burnings in Islamic countries that end up with people being shot. Muslims are generally speaking hyper-sensitive.



posted on Sep, 14 2010 @ 05:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
2. I am saying very clearly, everyone has an equal right under nature's laws to live as they see fit, provided they are prepared to be held accountable for their actions.

And I'm saying to you, we're not discussing natures "laws" we're discussing man's laws here. If that is of no interest to you, find another thread as you are off topic.


I think any rational person would agree that nature continues to rule the planet supreme. When you have that weather control machine, that wild animal mind control machine, the ocean control machine up and running you let me know.

AGAIN, this has NOTHING to do with the conversation.



People pay doctors, lawyers, and accountants, and psychologists for sound professional advice. You have no evidence of the government intimidating Jones, what you do have is evidence of the Government advising Jones his actions may have unintended consequences to himself and others, and to think carefully before acting.

Yes they were "advising". Give me a break !

And what would be those "unintended consequences" you're referring to? Please be specific.


That's good advice, which he seems to have taken. Government's job is to protect and to serve, if who you need protecting from is your own stupidity then yes, Government points that out all the time. Try driving 120 miles an hour in a school zone and see what the Police have to say about your thinking process.

HORRIBLE analogy as driving 120 mph in a school zone is ILLEGAL whereas exercising your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, is NOT illegal.


And I applaud them for that ! They refused to bow to terror and fear unlike the company that owns Comedy Central and the US government. Good for the ATS crew for having a big brass set !



The terror and fear is your own,

This statement makes no sense because we're talking about comedy central and the reason they didn't air a particular episode. Besides, I have no fear of terrorists.


Did you ever stop to think if people like yourself weren't constantly over exagerating the threat of reprisals by a few extremists, that people wouldn't be so afraid.

Ever hear of 9/11? The cole bombing? The WTC bombing in the 90's, The shoe bomber?, etc.... Yes it is a few individuals who actually carry out the attacks but there are MILLIONS of terrorists who want to destroy America and all other freedom loving countries.


For all you know though Comedy Central bowed to advertiser pressure, and the U.S. Government is a business that has to forge partnerships in a world we are codependent upon.



Muhammed’s appearance was even more censored than last week, his name was now bleeped out in addition to him being covered up by a big black box.



A post made on the show’s official site this morning now makes it clear that the network was responsible.

www.mediaite.com...

hotair.com...

In an original released statement, comedy central stated that due to threats against matt and trey, they couldn't in all good conscience, air the episode as is. I'm paraphrasing here because mysteriously, I can't seem to find it anywhere. I'll keep looking for the press statement and get back to you on that one.


Since we don't produce much of the oil we consume, and the durable goods and services Americans use, yet maintaining good relations with the rest of the world, is an important thing.

So we should cave to terrorist threat to make people happy? So we should give up hard fought rights to make people happy?


Sorry you can't force everyone else in the world to abide by your interpretation of the Constitution,

I can if it's within the bounds of the United States.


That's just the way it is, and being rude and belligerent to other people because you are afraid of them,

Again, it has nothing to do with fear but exercising CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. How many times do I have to repeat myself before you actually read what I write ??????????????????????????????????


I on the other hand am not afraid of anyone or anything

Oh on the contrary, you seem to be afraid of everyone and everything based on your comments.




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