Yahoo News reports story: "1,270 Architects/Engineers Reveal Hard Evidence of Explosive Demolition

reply to post by PookztA


How can it 'clearly show' this, when its a lie. How do you people look at this "evidence" and believe it? I feel like you are living in the Twilight Zone..where you see things I don't see. Its interesting that you see all of this crap no one with half a wit sees.

I heard it best on another post when some referred to "truthers" as CRIMINALLY delusional. I see the same twisted mentality in the guy burning the Koran.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

And by "Official Report" you mean the NIST report? The 9/11 Commision Report? There ASCE Pentagon building performance report? What exactly are you talking about?

Not that it really matters anyway. Its been 9 years, soon ten. The reports have been out there for years, for free completely accessible throught the internet. Yet there has been no movement in the direction you are suggesting. Hundreds of thousands, millions of scientist, engineers, construction professional, etc have had a chance to review and object to the material. Yet nothing.

Does that really count for nothing?

Excuse me? How many years did it take NIST to create their FARCE?

NIST worked on its final explanation for the destruction of WTC for at least five years!

How many pages? 10,000?

Yeah I bet the Government is real anxious for the truth to get out there.

reply to post by dR. kNOWITALL


wow bro, sorry we are all not as informed as you and pretty sure you can't "easily debunk" what the truthers are saying, its ok though your a disinformation agent

Brian, you know I have to ask this question :

How many reporters of main stream media were present at this second Washington AEforTruth Press Conference of this year?
You know there were none, the first time.
And that first one was exactly the same way announced, and held in the same premises.

You also know that I am hoping this time for more media presence.
So, how many were present?

reply to post by smurfy


Greetings,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I would submit that, citing your first comment:

"...were the towers actually fit for the purpose, given the time in which they were built, giving the precendence of the Empire State air crash... "

I tend to believe this is true. At the least, a measure was addressed that the designers felt, at the time, would offer adequate compensation.

As to the second comment:

"...There is little difference in the 'planes that hit the towers and the 707 that was "designed in" and fire had to be the biggest factor, not the crash... and four smaller engines as opposed to two big engines, what would cause the most fatal damage? "

This is much more difficult to resolve, as numerous conditions came into play in a very short period of time. Segments of the structures suffered severe and immediate impact damage, and each building it is suspected, for my part, that the damages sustained were not, in fact, identical in dispersal: Two aircraft, two buildings, but different floors, different areas of the floors, different columns, in some cases impacts and distribution of crash debris at one angle, in others, a completely different pattern.

Then there is the airspeed of the craft themselves.

Newton's Laws of Physics, as well as years of scientific study and proofs, clearly define action and reaction, cause and effect. Predictability is quantified with accuracy and entire careers have been built upon these studies. Yet, for all that, at the end of their existence, two buildings fell with remarkable similarity.

The fact that they "pancaked" is irrefutable, and there may indeed be a sound explanation for how they both fell substantially within their own footprints. I don't know what that is.

When it comes to those specific buildings, I'm more interested in this (as one example):

www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com...

It bothers me a great deal that there is so much still unanswered, almost as much as the observation that there are so many people who are dismissive, and who try to shout down or attack those who are genuinely concerned that there is more, much more, to this matter than what is being admitted to.

reply to post by DOADOA


That is the most asinine and irresponsible rant I have ever heard here on ATS.

Let me just ask one question if you had a piece of indisputable proof of a massive cover-up of a false flag attack that could not be denied by anyone, you wouldn't release it? You would just keep it under raps because "its over and done with. people died and no amount of airline pilot, architect, or engineers will bring them back alive, both in iraq and America. this is one truth that will not be reveal, live with it."

Oh and don't forget about Afghanistan, you know the first country this attack that is "over and done with" opened the door for.

You say that this risks bringing down our government. Why would you want to live under the authority of a government that on a whim could kill you, your family and 3,000 of your fellow citizens?

Well you may just "deal with it", but don't tell anyone to not try to get an actual investigation into the worst "terrorist" attack on American soil.

I for one applaud their effort.

Originally posted by xxcalbier
Well there is no dought in my mind planes did hit these buildings there are way to many witness to think otherwise.
But considering this new info maybe there is more to this then just planes .
....

Why in the world are these people asking for this now?... After 9 years...

We have been discussing this topic for years in this forum, and every time every claim was shown to be wrong...

Then several months back there was supposedly a research done claiming that they had found proof of explosives, or whatever it was, and it was claimed that engineers had done the research...

But if you investigated the group and their affiliates NONE of those people were engineers... The group had just been sending random petitions to random people and they claimed these people were engineers but they weren't.

That thread has to be somewhere in the forum.

Now this new claim after NINE YEARS?....

I really would like to see the petition and the names of the people who signed it.

Oh and btw... I don't work for the government or any three letter agency....

reply to post by Andy O


Welcome to the funny farm!

I also read a little while before I began posting. My first "exposure" to ATS was reading some blog about a "secret space war." I didn't believe one word of it, but it was very entertaining and creative in terms of the different aliens and their goals and the massed fleets around Jupiter. I am pretty sure there is alien life -- but I doubt anyone who knows much is blogging about it -- or they've got a "don't feed the animals" policy.

Anyway, 9/11 changed everything for me. I just LOOKED at the falling debris -- and the floors slamming down that kept up with them, and I KNEW it had to be some kind of "assisted" collapse. You cannot have the floors collapsing without having the IMPACT of the floors above. Basic physics means that 10 balls knocking into each other in succession take MORE TIME than one ball moving in a straight line (with the acceleration being equal). That's with very little resistance and ONLY reaction mass.

It's just that simple; impossible to collapse in that amount of time.

So, after that blatant false-flag, I read reports that the North Korean and Vietnam wars were based on totally fabricated "threats" -- admitted by official parties decades later, and the Media can't be bothered to stop following Lindsey Lohan to address it. The idea of "could they, would they" was replaced by "they've done it before" -- the real question is; "are there any wars where they didn't." I think WW II and when we kicked out the Royalists the FIRST time are about it. Maybe one of those was real.

>> As far as your question of "accidental triggering" of explosives -- it would totally depend on the detonation equipment. A Well-funded demolition -- and let's assume "a blank check" operation. So, instead of using something like a "throw away cell phone" -- you would have some wireless device with an encrypted code. Likely, they were behind sheetrock and in crawl-spaces -- mainly on vertical supports of all the floors, and some anchors for the curtain wall. So -- vanilla shaped charges with some extra-kick C4 into some I-beams. Maybe a few key ones were pre-cut after hours -- but shaped charges on ALL the verticals would do fine (my unprofessional guess). C4 doesn't detonate by flame -- it needs an electric current (AFAIK), so there is very little likelihood of it going off accidentally or being discovered unless someone was examining the structure and pulling -- not visible by office workers.

The core, of course, was likely destroyed near the base -- you would need something like Thermite, or Thermate, and plenty of it. That's probably volatile to leave around -- and you would probably need a LARGISH detonation of some kind to "kick it off it's perch" -- you wouldn't want to just burn through the base and have it drop a foot and just teeter there -- you have to collapse everything to destroy your handiwork.

If an advanced weapon was used -- well, then it's just tougher to prove anything, because it's not like you don't give a lying, traitorous sack of war criminal excrement like Cheney and Bush the benefit of the doubt, right? I don't know if they've ever been caught telling the truth except when Cheney admitted to the waterboarding and Bush admitted that Saddam had no connection to 9/11.

>> Overall though, it seems to me that you only need conventional demolitions materials. The ONLY real trick is setting up everything -- but all you would want for that is to make all the security guards at night your DEMOLITION TEAM. Then, you would want to restrict access to the investigation to people on your payroll. In fact, the FBI was not involved in the investigation like with the previous WTC bombing that THEY SOLVED -- nope. Homeland Security called in a private company called "Controlled Demolitions."

So if you want to REALLY keep things quiet for the perfect crime -- if you can manage to get the people who both set the charges to INVESTIGATE foul play -- this would be an ideal scenario. I don't KNOW anything -- but it would make a conventional demolition very easy to cover up if your night time security were a demolition crew and they were in charge of the investigation.

Now a REAL investigation, would ID all the people who worked for security in the months previous or any contractors who did work on the structure of the building.

>> Interesting coincidence; All the Video feeds of the building went dark the day of 9/11 and a scheduled pass-through of bomb sniffing dogs two weeks before was cancelled.

Originally posted by DOADOA
you people just don't get it. it doesn't matter how many architect, engineers or airline pilot come forward, they will never admit to this. to admit to this is to end america goddamnt. ((snip))

So be it. the US establishment deserves a global punking for these atrocities.

If the US is revealed to be no better than nazi germany, it should be treated like nazi germany... and all the GOP & DNC voters can take a fat bite of the crap sandwich they made... be sure to chew each bite 20X lol

Eliminating rogue nations from needlessly slaughtering people based on lies is a good thing for the planet...

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
.....
You cannot have the floors collapsing without having the IMPACT of the floors above. Basic physics means that 10 balls knocking into each other in succession take MORE TIME than one ball moving in a straight line (with the acceleration being equal). That's with very little resistance and ONLY reaction mass.

It's just that simple; impossible to collapse in that amount of time.
.....

Basic physics... Which basic physics?... physics is not as simple as some people love to claim, and that's the problem. We got several people who might have SOME knowledge, or none at all, about physics and want to claim "it is just simple and basic"... It isn't...if it was everyone would have a physics degree, and even then just having a physics degree doesn't mean you are an expert in architecture, if it was this simple then EVERY physics expert out there would also be an architect, and i hope you know this is not true...

Valhall posted a while back a thread about the rate of collapse of the WTC. Back then, and still now we get a lot of people claiming "the buildings collapsed at, or near free fall".. Well first of all something is either falling at free fall or it isn't, and in that thread Valhall demonstrated that the building were not collapsing at free fall like many members were claiming. The bottom floors were providing some resistance, but that resistance was not enough to stop the tons upon tons of falling debris from the top floors which were the first ones to collapse.

Originally posted by LaBTop
How many reporters of main stream media were present at this second Washington AEforTruth Press Conference of this year?
You know there were none, the first time.
And that first one was exactly the same way announced, and held in the same premises.

You also know that I am hoping this time for more media presence.
So, how many were present?

I don't know, I looked for video of it yesterday on YouTube but only found earlier press conferences.


Even if the major media companies don't even pay it any attention, there is plenty enough coverage from Yahoo, Forbes, national radio interviews and debates, etc. on down to get the word out on a new level to thousands or even millions of more people.

It's just the next step in the process, and I hope Gage does this every year until they are forced to listen by the sheer numbers of people all across the country who are similarly concerned and voicing it one way or another.

After all the people outnumber them in the end, in a very bad way.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
So check this out:

Rawstory wasn't about to settle for the press release. OH no. They have done their own story on this, and have even plugged a debunking site in their article.

www.rawstory.com...

It wasn't that bad. I was expecting some kind of JREF trash, every other or third sentence being a personal or blanket insult.

What's interesting is that this tone will still be just as divisive as Gage's. Many people have already commented on that article saying they agree the buildings were controlled demolitions, of course. It's still a very controversial issue in the US. There will be division. But at least we have got it this far along. Maybe in a year we will by like the rest of the world's media, freely airing these ideas and taking them seriously.

Originally posted by Stewie
No one would build a building and pre-rig it with explosives, that is preposterous.

I think we're on the same side (Truther opposed to Truster) but the video I inserted claims the contrary. To me, it makes sense. Why not?

If a building goes up, they have to plan on it coming down one day.

Buildings aren't built to withstand time like the Great Pyramid ya know? So factoring in how a huge building could possibly get torn down amidst a major city had to have been considered back in the 1970's when erecting this complex.

No one was there when they built them nor were we there when supposed cable-phone-utility men showed up and allegedly rigged the towers (Not sure how they got into WTC7 though going on this theory but..................) We'll never know. Whatever scenario resonates with you then, that's good enough.

But at this juncture, 9 years later, everyone should agree on one thing and that is..............the events on 9-11 did not go down like 'they' claim they did. That much is a given for liars lie about lying.

Originally posted by ThothHermes1
reply to post by dR. kNOWITALL

 

wow bro, sorry we are all not as informed as you and pretty sure you can't "easily debunk" what the truthers are saying, its ok though your a disinformation agent

Yes you can...shoddy physics, huge leaps in logic, and most importantly utterly inconclusive "evidence" dressed up as some sort of revelation.

Just because those lousy youtube videos didn't "blow my mind" like they clearly did yours, doesn't make me a disinfo agent. It makes me logical. You are backing the wrong horse, and its pitiful.

Get those 1270 engineers to keep a secret for more than one day and I will believe their story. People don't keep secrets, one of the demolition guys would have come forward by now. Sorry, still no smoking gun evidence.

Originally posted by dR. kNOWITALL
reply to post by PookztA

 

How can it 'clearly show' this, when its a lie. How do you people look at this "evidence" and believe it? I feel like you are living in the Twilight Zone..where you see things I don't see. Its interesting that you see all of this crap no one with half a wit sees.

I heard it best on another post when some referred to "truthers" as CRIMINALLY delusional. I see the same twisted mentality in the guy burning the Koran.

If you lump ALL issues together -- then it's impossible that ANYONE can protest anything. The Koran burning is one crazy preacher in Florida with a church of 50 that gets more air time for his hate-mongering than ALL THE THOUSANDS of people who are "truthers".

When you speak of TRUTHERS -- remember to include the friends and families of the deceased who are MOSTLY suing the government and Saudi Arabia to get to the truth. The First Responders and Firemen who were paraded by the government for the first few weeks on TV -- and who were quickly forgotten when MOST OF THEM, who were in the building, said that they heard explosives going off. The theory that it was "light bulbs" or something might hold water if it was someone's first fire.

Then you've got a dozen people who escaped the basement, saying there was a huge blast that went off just before the towers started to fall (with pyroclastic dust in the lobby reported by firemen).

>> I could talk about the thousand and ONE coincidences on that day -- that if you stretch reality enough, you could MAYBE wonder why the head of security at the FAA destroyed the Radar tapes -- or why the video feeds went dead -- or why confiscated video tapes at the Pentagon never materialized -- or why nobody could come up with a flight manifest (no, it did NOT appear in court documents -- that was a FAX, which the court discarded -- there has never been a manifest presented). The FBI officially stated that it is NOT looking at Bin Laden in connection with the Terrorist attacks, nor is it sure of who is a suspect. Look on their fricken' website. The ONLY connection with Bin Laden was a briefcase that an FBI agent "just found" and some passports that escaped the WTC intact, and survived the disintegration of another plane. Oh, and some Arabic manuals in a rented car for flying planes. The Bin Laden videotape, was proven to be a fraud, and it's suspected it was made by Italian secret service -- probably by someone working for Bush buddy Berlusconi.

The FBI was barred from following credit card receipts or tracking the payments by the Bush government.

These are FACTS on the record -- not a blog site, but with actual government agencies.


>> You don't need theories. All you need to do is look at the video of the WTC falling. The falling Debris, is only about 20 feet ahead of the falling floors. No matter what theory of Jet Fuel, shoddy construction, imploding air pockets, or Leprechauns -- a pancake collapse needs actual time to HIT the floor below it and impact it before it can destroy it. What there a mighty wind? You SHOULD have seen, a series of "whoomps" where the mass above hits the floor below, pushes out air and debris, and has time to crush the floor. A supporting structure that holds up a building, that has NOT been destroyed by an airliner, is still capable of holding up the floors above. Normal code is 2 times needed capacity and the WTC was built with 4 since they'd never built that high before and a large military plane had collided with the Empire State Building just before they started the WTC (it burned and did NOT collapse the Empire State Building however, since Allah was not involved).

Are there some "wild ass" theories? Sure. But the fact of the matter is, that various lies have been caught from the NIST, and Homeland Security and the Pentagon. And too many coincidences occurred on that day (like 3 security drills with Dick Cheney leading them that involved airplanes flying into buildings).

You cannot exonerate someone because there are some weird or unproven theories -- you go TO TRIAL, to prove a case, and the 9.11 incident deserves to put the main suspects who obstructed the investigation to go on trial and PROVE their wild ass theories. Since 2001, we've got this underlying Paradigm that suggest that we have to prove someone in power GUILTY, before we can hold a trial and put them under oath. Nobody has had to PROVE their points except the people challenging power -- which makes a Democracy impossible.

You know, like rigged election machines, internal spying on political enemies and torture -- all denied and then proven and yet, NOBODY but little flunkies following orders has been held accountable.

reply to post by dR. kNOWITALL


9/11 WAS an inside job,,, you get over it!

Originally posted by earthdude
Get those 1270 engineers to keep a secret for more than one day and I will believe their story. People don't keep secrets, one of the demolition guys would have come forward by now. Sorry, still no smoking gun evidence.

Where did this concept of "people can't keep secrets" come from? Seriously. This is the worst-kept secret on earth, however, people who commit crimes often do NOT tell the press that they did it. It's really kind of rare.

So if you were a demolitions expert, for instance, who put charges on the WTC and then were appointed to the task force investigating the matter do you;
A) Keep maybe a Billion in Gold Bullion trucked out from WTC 7 as payment and keep your mouth shut. Maybe make sure all the evidence gets recycled halfway across the globe.
or B) Secure the crime scene, point out the residue of Thermite and other explosives and say; "gee, I wonder what I was thinking when they told me to install shaped charges" -- then let yourself be torn apart by crowds of people.

Secrets are not kept, perfectly in large groups -- that's why you compartmentalize their tasks. GUILTY people keep secrets. The pattern we saw from the Bush government, is that whistleblowers were discouraged or actively persecuted, and that many government agents came forward over time and trickled out information -- that's how we heard about the mock drills by NORAD that had everyone confused.

The other thing, is that a lot of people were likely corrupted -- meaning, they were given a seemingly innocuous task that seemed rather harmless -- and did it out of loyalty to a higher up. Then, after time, they noticed in the "big picture" that they might have been part of something REALLY BAD. All throughout the Bush government, career bureaucrats were nervous about ANYTHING coming out, because they didn't know if they were part of some conspiracy or not -- take your pick, there were so many.

So the fact that there were so MANY CRIMES by the Bush administration, worked in their favor. You didn't know if you were part of the torture progrom, the "create evidence to go to war" team, the propaganda group, the "spying on Americans" subcommittee, or one of a hundred other ethical malfeasances that should have, in an actual Democracy with Justice, impeached both Bush and Cheney and put them at least in prison for 20 years.

Hey, and who let people rip off trillions of dollars in the Stock Market? Who sent the Anthrax from the same toxic weapons lab that investigated it? Why was the Christmas Bomber allowed on the airplane when the State Department wanted to pull their passport? Why did the Bush family trial end with $17 Billion in forged Treasury Bills and ENRON trial evidence go up in smoke in WTC 7 and it never made the news? Why did two newspapers and the FBI sit on evidence about Pedophilia for 5 years for a certain Senator from Florida? How did Karl Rove get the Governor of Alabama in prison without access to the press or lawyers for 5 years when he complained of thousands of votes being discovered just before the polls closed? Why did we invade Afghanistan or Iraq when NOBODY from those countries is even implicated (hint; NO Taliban on the Plane) -- Al Qaeda is all over the world but we've got more in South Florida than were in Afghanistan -- the only link between them and the Taliban is Bin Laden.



I mean, I could go on all day with all the corrupt, sneaky, evil crap that went on since 2000.

Sorry, still no smoking gun evidence.

Oh gee, really? We had a huge tower go down, impossibly due to an airplane. Two wars based on lies with over a million dead or displaced as a result. Geneva conventions destroyed, an entire covert operation compromised and probably dead, tens of trillions of dollars evaporated from trust funds and money going out the back door of the Fed -- what exactly do you consider SECRET here of high crimes? Does your smoking gun need to be a mushroom cloud? Does Bush need to be on video tape chuckling over his crimes (he is)?

Before you say; "Gee, something seems rotten." Having the committee appointed by the President saying ON THE RECORD; "The entire investigation was a whitewash, we were obstructed and delayed at every turn."

Yeah, sure, everybody who believes in conspiracies is a fruit cake -- and BP didn't spill any oil in the Gulf because we actually Don't have a smoking gun or evidence of THEIR OIL -- merely the oily sheen on the water.

Originally posted by electricuniverse
Why in the world are these people asking for this now?... After 9 years...

Hmmmm... What is the shelf-life for truth? "We" curious people are constantly trying to learn new things about old events. Ever study history? I, for one, love to learn about WWII, and just about any historical period for that matter. But, I do have a curious spirit. Not everyone does. It seems that you, apparently, do not. At least, not about 9/11. That doesn't make it wrong for people trying to figure out what really happened, how it happened, why it happened and who was behind it. Again, what is the shelf-life of truth? Ignorance is bliss. If this is true, many people like you are happy with the "official" story.

We have been discussing this topic for years in this forum, and every time every claim was shown to be wrong...

Not true. You should know better than to use sweeping statements like that. Extremely not true.

Now this new claim after NINE YEARS?....

Again, does truth have a shelf life? What about people wrongfully incarcerated for well over nine years. I bet someone in prison for a crime she didn't commit is very interested in the truth, especially if it's been after NINE YEARS. Wouldn't you? The "official" (cover) story has imprisoned the Truth for over NINE YEARS.

Oh and btw... I don't work for the government or any three letter agency....

Actually, even if you aren't lying in that statement, you are *indeed* working for them, and you don't even know it. You would be classified as a MISinformation agent, someone who blindly spreads false information (insisting that the official story is true) and challenges true information with straw-man arguments and bad logic. At least sign on to an official agency and get a paycheck.

I would like to hear your explanations for the collapse of the WTC 7 building; why the military was conducting national level exercises involving the hijacking of planes (on 9/11).

reply to post by DOADOA

Most likely you are correct as far as facts go.
However, it does not hurt TRYING to let the truth out, right?
Something might happen in the process, even if this type of power is firmly sold on denying self-involvement.