How can you go to Heaven if you Support War or the Death Penalty?

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Call me cold, but business is business, I just want to survive.

My friend,

You are certainly welcome to your view. However, and I hate to break it to you, but we have been dying since the day we were born. You survive one gun battle, the next day heart attack. It's your life, live it how you want to live it. I have seen the other side and been back. The other side is just a quick flash then here you go again.

This is Heaven, or it is our Hell. Now it is Hell because we think Hellishly. It will continue until WE change.

Contemplate it at the very least.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Johnze


watch cnn much???

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by elle.mental
reply to post by earth2

 

Have you ever read the Bible? There was war mandated by God time and time again. There was the death penalty under God's law... example: both people who were caught in the act of adultry were to be stoned to death. The "thou shalt not kill commandment in Hebrew mean Murder, not kill. Murder being taking the life of someone by premeditation. Kidnapping was punishable by death, as a matter of fact for those who entered a covenant relationship with God, working on the sabbath (7th day-Saturday) was punishable by death. Please, read the bible.... get a direct Hebrew to English translation, the Jewish Press Society has a good translation, also a Strong's Concordance so you can look up both Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) so that if you aren't sure of the meaning of a passage you can look to it's roots. The KJV and many other translations have been washed through so many languages (Latin being one of them...) that the essence of it's meaning has been lost. While you're at it please read carefully and tell me where the Bible ever says that we go to heaven? The "Kingdom of Heaven" is here on Earth. Heaven is the throne room of the Most High, man was not made to be in Heaven, they were created to live here on Earth. God's kingdom will be here on Earth, ruled by His son the Messiah. We will not ever go to heaven, it is not our habitation. God's people will inherit the Land of Promise and live as one people, with one law.

My friend,

Do you read the Bible from back to front? If one reads the Bible forwards, clearly what was mentioned in the "Old" testament, was an example of what will become if you do not live by the "New" testament. Shall we shake off the "New" to don the trappings and misunderstanding of the "Old? Is this progress to go backwards?

Your welcome to it my friend, but this leads to a very miserable existence.

With Love,

Your Brother

Read Revelation sometime.

God's wrath in the OT will be quadrupled during the Tribulation on all unrighteousness and wickedness of mankind. Jesus said: "Unless those days be shortened NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE."

Originally posted by IAMIAM

This is an assumption on your part because you want it to be true. Show me a verse where Jesus said "I am the dude talked about in Daniel Chapter 7". He never did, because he never claimed to be God.

Utterly ridiculous ignorance

Twist it the other way, you're woefully ignorant because you DON'T want Jesus to be the Lord.

This is a fitting quote you used right here. It only shows your lack of reading comprehension. Jesus asks, why are you stoning me? The Jews answered, Because you make yourself God!". It is an accusation from an accuser.

The "lack" is not on my part, the post above is the epitome of ironic statements.

The Irony of it all is you are doing the same thing to me. I never said I was Jesus, I never said I was God, I simply show the wonders of God, and show the love of Jesus, and YOU make the accusation!

Here is what I have claimed from the beginning:

I AM (I do exist don't I?)
I am the Son of God (If God created Adam, and we all hail from that symbolic first man, am I not a Son of God? YES, and so are you! We are all the Sons and Daughters of God.)
I am the Son of Man (do I need to explain this one?)
I am the King of Kings (Are we all not Kings and Queens? Yes we are! We all are Sovereigns of our own free will. That is our kingdom)
I have claimed Jesus as my Brother (If he decended from the line of Man, which he himself declares numerously, then he is my Brother.)

Yeah, I get it, you take names for yourself reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ.

You're a blasphemer.

So, I have heard your perspective. I have showed you your error in comprehension. I have offered you nothing but friendly discourse. I have showed you nothing but love. All of which you reject. Do you show yourself for a hypocrite?

You've shown nothing but your own ignorance of scripture and Hebraisms.

Your Brother

I'm not your "brother" for the hundredth time, we do NOT share the same father.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
so can i kill in self defence or not. I dont want to go to hell for shooting a guy that was going to shoot me

You're fine. God's commandment says "Thou shalt not murder."

Secondly, you go to hell or heaven by either rejecting or trusting in Christ's redemptive work on the cross at Calvary.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.." ~ Jesus

How do you justify the death penalty? I will tell you.

#1. A man rapes and kills a little girl. He deserves death....justified.
#2. A man kills his pregnant wife. death penalty...justified.
#3. A woman beats her kids to death. She doesn't deserve to live...justified.

I can go on and on but you get my point. There are some serious scum on this earth that don't deserve to live and people like I just mentioned above, well I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep knowing that they got the death penalty. War is a different story. Innocent people die, leaving children fatherless or motherless for what? I don't support it.
WAR=
DEATH PENALTY

reply to post by NOTurTypical


That is the biggest load of garbage I ever heard in my life.
www.messiahtruth.com...
Why does G-D need to sacrifice a false Messiah and false Prophet to save mankind?
G-D doesn't!
"Then the LORD said, 'I do forgive, just as you have asked.'"
Numbers 14:20 (NRS)
www.messiahtruth.com...

The reason why we're in this Holographic School/Universe is to learn love, and that includes overcoming all rationalization for war, poverty, inequality, corporal punishment/death penalties. It means, absolute love, yearning and desiring equality and literally caring and compassionating all people. The ones most awake and aware and the ones who have more responsibility.

I have the answer to your question!

I can go to heaven and support war or the death penalty...
"....with a ku klux mumu in the back the track,
and if you ain't born again, I'm gonna mess you up.
Singing no abortion no siree, life's to precious can't you see?..."

Where else are we all gonna go we already live in hell. As the old saying goes. When you're at the bottom the only way out is up....

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Yeah, we get it. You harken your ear to Judaism. the problem is, Daniel foretold the exact day the Messiah would come riding on a donkey through the Eastern gate in Jerusalem. It was such a perfect prophecy the Jewish rabbis from the 3rd century on Christ said Daniel was written after Jesus Christ. The Jews claimed this for over 1,000 years, then OOOOOPS, Daniel was found when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered.

There is also prophecies that said the Messiah would enter the 2nd temple, and the 2nd temple's "glory" would be greater than the glory of the first temple. If Jesus was not the Messiah then there never will be one. He had to come to Earth as a man before 70 AD and enter the temple once.

Jesus was the only one to have been born of a virgin, born in Bethlehem, rode through the Eastern Gate a week before the Passover feast, and who had entered the 2nd temple. If Jesus was not the Messiah, sorry, there never will be one.

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
Where else are we all gonna go we already live in hell. As the old saying goes. When you're at the bottom the only way out is up....

edit on 10-9-2010 by BlastedCaddy because: (no reason given)

Not so fast... for those going to heaven, Earth is as close to hell as they'll ever experience.

And those destined for hell, Earth is as close to heaven as they'll ever experience.

Originally posted by Unity_99
The reason why we're in this Holographic School/Universe is to learn love, and that includes overcoming all rationalization for war, poverty, inequality, corporal punishment/death penalties. It means, absolute love, yearning and desiring equality and literally caring and compassionating all people. The ones most awake and aware and the ones who have more responsibility.

*sniff sniff*

Smells like Buddhism.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Twist it the other way, you're woefully ignorant because you DON'T want Jesus to be the Lord.

*Sigh* Jesus is Lord. And, so am I.

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalYeah, I get it, you take names for yourself reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now Jesus reserves words, from a language he did not speak at the time, and reserves them for himself?

OK, if you say so....

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalYou're a blasphemer.

Shakin in my boots!

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalYou've shown nothing but your own ignorance of scripture and Hebraisms.

That same Judgement I cast upon you.

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalI'm not your "brother" for the hundredth time, we do NOT share the same father.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

You are the most hateful, spiteful, arrogant, self-righteous person I have been to. You cannot reason or use logic, and when the offer is made to simply leave each other to their view, you continue to cast judgement as if all are below you. If you are a follower of Christ, this I can tell you, he would not know you.

And, neither do I.

Live in your own tormented Hell of self-righteous indignation if you so choose.

You fail to see God before you, you would not see God in your own child, or mother, or father, so why would I expect you to recognise a stranger even simply for a Brother. Sleep with eyes closed, and dream your wonderland. It is your pit of fire, and it obviously hurts.

With Love,

Your Brother

The OP makes absolutely no sense. Supporting a war and/or death penalty makes you an accomplice? What are you babbling about? Let's take the war for example. So if I am sitting in my living room and agree that Saddam should be out of power somehow I'm an accomplice to murder? Maybe if you took the route of how can a soldier be a Christian and shoot enemies you might be able to put together an understandable argument although I probably wouldn't agree with you. And for supporting the death penalty how is it not a natural reaction to want justice and vengeance against a criminal? The people up for death penalty are generally guilty of multiple heinous crimes. Unless I pull the switch to execute someone I'm not an accomplice, I'm NORMAL. When I hear that someone broke into a home and raped the women and murdered the whole family I don't want that person back out in the streets or sitting in jail for 50 years on tax payer dollars. Actions have their consequences. I'm not against that person asking for forgiveness and turning from their ways but they still have to face the music for the choices they made.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Supporting a war and/or death penalty makes you an accomplice? .......... And for supporting the death penalty how is it not a natural reaction to want justice and vengeance against a criminal? .......... Unless I pull the switch to execute someone I'm not an accomplice, I'm NORMAL.

If you support it you are an accomplice.
Kind of like driving the get away car for a murderer. You didn't actually do the killing, but you supported it.

And just because you are all tucked away in your bed supporting the death penalty or war doesn't make you innocent.

Or another example, the crime boss calls out a hit from his BED. He doesn't even leave his bed and someone is killed, because he supported the killing he is just as guilty as the actual gunman.

I'm not babbling as you suggested, I am just aware and maybe you should get out of bed and become aware as well.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
so can i kill in self defence or not. I dont want to go to hell for shooting a guy that was going to shoot me

You were made with the desire to live and the ability to do whatever it takes to survive, it is a part of how we were made. Having to shoot someone to survive is not something any person should ever have to do ever, it is not something that should be taken lightly and if at all avoidable avoid it. You will not be condemned for doing what it takes for you to live. You will not be condemned defending those incapable of defending themselves. But there should be no joy in having to resort with force to do so, if there is then you need to reconsider your motivations for having done so.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The reality of existance and progression has some similarities to Budda, and Yeshua (separate from Rome and the Judaic religions mind you, for they used him due to the truth he spoke drawing crowds, as their new sungod, only they don't code to the sun, but to the black star, and all things including our language is coded to Saturn, and the Eye of Horus!).

i have a thread in my profile that I wrote after a friend sent me a video on infinity to contemplate. He had already written some very Quantum metaphysics posts in his thread, and had had a very informative nde, and contact experiences. But he would only hint and ask me: what is time? what is No Time? Gravity? The Sun? Shared the holgraphic universe, and then the Infinity video.

When I reached inside to connect to the "all" and "infinity" within for we all contain all within us, and even a grain of sand contains a potential infinity, I immediately connected to my Higher Self who I experienced day after day and had over a month of downloads. I wrote my thread on the Holographic Universe and Space-Time channels based on all the downloads.

I don't use the word Heaven, for that sounds like a coded word with "Heavy" at its root.

Sounds like a soul trap word to me, along with the major warring religions and all the earthly representatives of the Eye of Horus, the top of the criminal negative fascist pyramid system: Enki/Enlil/El/Isis/Ra/Osirius/Zeus/Quetzcoatl. Take your pick they're all the S group, the Feathered Serpents, and the controllers of this planet.

The reality of is far more wonderful than any of our religions and is based on Quantum Physics/Metaphysics. The very basis for everything is Infinity. Infinity is the Foundation or Platform and all things should spring from it.

Infinity is a Quantum reality, and in an infinity, ALL things are infinite!

This means literally, that all inanimate energies (we'll call this akin to a toaster) recylce endlessly, without beginning or ending.

All consciousness/life/soul/infinite light, progresses and evolves endlessly. Without beginning or ending, forever. And in Quantum mechanics of "time" where in reality, in infinity there is no such thing as "time", each segment of you, is another you, "past", a metaphorical concept related to sequencing, or "future", same thing.
If in the Beyond (my word for Heaven, and what is outside this cosmic holographic school), you were to meet with all of yourselves, you would need an infinite sized table to meet with the endless you's.

If you were to pluck a tiny fraction of your soul, as if you were God, and create a "child" soul, due to the nature of Infinity, INSTANTLY, that new soul would stretch endlessly in both directions, without beginning or ending, and in size would be equal to the Infinity itself. Thus Child would be = to the Parent as well!

To be Con't....

part 2:

To share what was downloaded to me, is hard to write in a post. My thread pertaining to some of this is in my signature. However, this overviews would be as follows:

1. The nature of this universe/multiverse, is that it is a holographic technology, and that includes our bodies. It is a matrix, and consists of streams/rivers of energy. Inside our "brain" also a hologram, therefore truly its a program our soul/consciousness is engaged in, there are recognition centers, that take in the signals through our 5 (there are really far more than 5 senses, as Ingo Swann related we have hundreds of energy recognition extra sensory perception) senses and is translated to form an image at the back of the mind in what amounts to as a screen.

So we're just analyzing energy streams and reorganizing this into a universe, and planet. Inside an atom are quarks, inside those are strings, and strings are just exotic streams of energy. Also note the Double Blnd experiment. There is alot of other evidence if you search online, for the Holographic Universe as well.

Time and gravity are also both programs that run in our minds. The clock ticks in our head. And gravity is a sorting, spatial program that places all the things on the screen in perspective, in other words, creates order out of chaos.

This is akin to a matrix, and even more so, akin to watching a dvd and projecting in for schools. Metaphorically the universe could be seen as a living holographic technology, possibly as small as a laptop on the other side, a DVD player that plays infnite DVDS, space-time channels based on infinite planets and moons with their own program for "time" based on individual orbits around their stars. And we don't see into those other time lines. So the universe is not a solid plane or channel and Hubble only looks out in earth time 3d land, and misses most of whats there. There is life on all planets and moons, on one channel or another, and often many, because we also have infinite layers of astral densities/channels as well.

If you programmed a bot to experience your day in 15 minutes, you would disappear from his sight. To you, he would appear to be standing still. You would be observing his life as if it was a movie on a screen or a magazine with pictures, which the higher up ETs in this galaxy, the ones from huge stars, and also the Higher Selves, our Future clips of self in endless progression who passed all the tests here in this universe of Love and Equality, and are in the Beyond, guiding us.

2. In a hologram, lasers erect the hologram in a laboratory setting. In the cosmos what is the light source? The stars!!!! The stars are the input systems for the hologram and basically your phone line home to Higher Self. They're also all connected with filaments, which has been observed scienfitically.

I have a thread on how to sungaze safely, with no or low UV, though you need UV b for immune and vitamin D. Its one of the most powerful metaphysics tools there is, though even if you detect the consciousness there, its not a symbol for worship, the sun is akin to the projector or phone line, and I don't worship my phone.

3. This cosmos universe school is one of an infinite numbers of schools. And in this school we are learning how to love and desire equality with every fibre of our being. It is a duality system, and this planet is run by negatives, and a very harsh duality, reform prison/school at that.

We are cosmic beings, infinite beigns, and have been journeying, most of us, for a long time in the cosmos already. Some of us remember this a bit.

The ETs and cosmic citizens are also half roughly positive systems/eutopias, and half roughly negative, though there are positives and negatives on both sides, akin to our planet an extremely negative planet with constant warfare and ongoing starvation of most of its billions of citizens, run by an would be elite, lied to group of controllers, who think they are Gods and not subject to law of consequence but only testing us. They are very mistaken. They are equal to us in every way, and amassing huge karmic debts.

We don't progress or pass the test until we learn to love everyone even the ones hurting and harming us, to see all as Family, for everyone is the Infinite Family of Light, and All of our future selves have made it out of this school in No Time in the Beyond, there is no one who hasn't that is consicousness in this cosmos.

Our Higher Selves are very strict with us and send us back, sometimes to purging and perfect knowledge for harming others, including war and any following of bad orders. We are to lliterally strive to raise our love and frequency to obtain Higher Self protection. Nothing bad can happen to us unless it is something we must go through for our progression. We need to stop being fear based and become Love, and see the Love and Light in all. Renounce negativity but do not renounce any soul. The actions and the soul are not the same thing.

Others get sent back to redo everything like Groundhog Day the movie, either in this system or in the billions of other earth like planets in this galaxy alone, until we get it right.

This planet is also, as a DVD, not a new DVD, its a recording that plays infinite timelines, or reruns of the show.
In No Time, these different timeline runs run simultaneously, but in our sense of "time" they are back to back runs.

Non of us know the final pages of the coloring book, but the outline for the scenes are there, and we color in the pages our way!

We are unique rays of Light, and Infinity equalizes everyone. All are equal to the size of infinity itself.

There can be no One, rather the Infnite Family of Light, for One has limits and boundaries and Infinity is Boundless, without limits, stretching endlessly in all directions. There is a Beyond, and a Beyond Beyond that, and Beyond Beyond that, behind the veil, like a big movie screen curtain. There are infinite universes/schools, the creation of our Higher Higher Higher Higher, Future Future Future Future, Highly Progressed Selves (and I don't know how may Highers or Futures to add there, its just a guess!).

Its all Quantum and its all wonderful.

reply to post by IAMIAM


ME 'self-righteous'???? I've stated time and time again I'm a vile sinner, I can't enter His presence on MY righteousness because I HAVE NONE. The ONLY righteousness I have was imputed by the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the hero of this story, NOT ME.

You on the other hand are the one who has claimed numerous times to be "perfect". I for sure am not perfect, I've sinned horrible and fallen short of God's glory and perfection.

But yeah, I'm 'self-righteous'...

Secondly, I've stated NUMEROUS times that I don't hate YOU, but the ideas/lies you're propagating. Which is the exact same ideas/lies your father first told mankind in Genesis 3:1 & 3:4.

That's what I hate, the lies you speak. I don't hate you as a person, but the lies you spit on these forums. And they are NOT birthed by you, your father began them 6,000 years ago in a garden in the Middle East.

Get over yourself, open up a Bible, and REPENT, the time is too short for you not to head this advice. Get it through your thick skull that you have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS, you HAVE NONE.

You need Jesus Christ's righteousness to enter into the presence of my Holy Father, God Almighty.