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How can you go to Heaven if you Support War or the Death Penalty?

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posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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The two are not exactly the same thing for one. Understand that an unjust war is just as bad and vile as executing anyone. But there are times that it is appropriate to stand against the evils of the world with force. We are not perfect so asking if Jesus would kill a human, in the hopes of proving any point simply doesn't work. Ideally we would not ever have to kill anyone but sadly right now we can not avoid it at times. But we should always question whether the wars we fight are justified, sadly most of them are not. Defense of ourselves pretty much falls in the same category as a just war, while not completely right sometimes is unavoidable to have to kill in order for yourself to survive. These things God does understand.

The Death Penalty is something that no Christian should ever believe in, in my opinion. It goes against the very foundation of the teaching, forgiveness. This does not mean that they should be allowed to roam free among society where obviously they are a threat either.But no one knows if or when that person will come to Christ. We do not know what impact that person will have on someone elses life when they do. That is best left in God's hands to deal with. We are called to forgive as we expect to be forgiven its that simple.




posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by earth2
 


God is a justful god and he said their ia a right time for war. And peace, and justice in his eyes is good, so the death penalty is good and right and so is war, sometimes



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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The actual commandment correct translated is shall not murder, not shall not kill God killed plenty of people in the bible, it's the killing for a non-moral purpose that was outlawed in his commandments.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by skischoow
 


So God said its ok to kill people sometimes?


He didn't say, thou shalt not kill, unless its justifiable.

He said, thou shalt not kill.

So simple, yet people make it difficult to the point you need a Bible lawyer...jeez



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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What disturbs me about modern-day Christianity, especially in modern day America, is the vengeful streak. Christianity's core is forgiveness, that's the essence of the faith, yet most American Christians are very pro-revenge when it comes to the death penalty and homosexuality and war. Doesn't make any sense to me!



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod
The actual commandment correct translated is shall not murder, not shall not kill God killed plenty of people in the bible, it's the killing for a non-moral purpose that was outlawed in his commandments.


My Friend,

A page or two back, we already discussed the idea of justified killing according to the New Testament, which is what applies to Christians. But, since you bring up the "Old Testament, or the Torah, I will assume that you are not Christian, but are Jewish. That being the case, what we have to go by is the commandment "Thou Shalt not kill.". That is pretty cut and dry. Do not kill!

Your statement that God killed many, while it may be true, WE are not God, and WE do not judge God. If he kills, this is his playground to do what he will with. Now before you start saying how miserable a being God must be for killing people, you must realise that he does it to every single one of us. We will all die by Gods will one way or another. It is not tragic or cruel. Our bodies wear out and break down for a reason.

What is proof that God does this out of Love is the fact that we have life eternal. We are reborn. So, keeping that in mind, God's killing really is an act of mercy.

You are not God. You do not get to decide who is worthy of killing and who is not. That is Gods job. You are here to love and care for each other. Do this and stop judging each other, and we will all get along just fine.

With love,

Your Brother


edit on 9-9-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by 19872012
What disturbs me about modern-day Christianity, especially in modern day America, is the vengeful streak. Christianity's core is forgiveness, that's the essence of the faith, yet most American Christians are very pro-revenge when it comes to the death penalty and homosexuality and war. Doesn't make any sense to me!


Yes, I know the judgemental streak you speak of my friend. I think I may be seeing it right now. They are flawed just as we all are. We discussed this a page or two back. Check it out, and let us know if you have any questions about what was already said. We seem to be rehashing the same issues every page or two.

With Love,

your Brother



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Jovi1
But there are times that it is appropriate to stand against the evils of the world with force. We are not perfect so asking if Jesus would kill a human, in the hopes of proving any point simply doesn't work.


My friend,

First, we ALL are perfect. We do not see our perfection through the pain and agony we have experienced in life. That and too many people telling you you are not perfect. God is all knowing, correct? In the beginning he created everything correct? At each step he paused and looked at it. What did he say? IT IS GOOD. In other words, exactly how he wanted it. He created everything, saw how it would turn out, and said IT IS GOOD.

Now man comes along and does something God said not to. In HIS shame, he saw that he was naked. God never said "Shame on you". Man did. Man made himself imperfect in his own mind!

Now, this is a metaphor for our birth. We are born perfect, as God would see us. We think so to when we are born. However, once we leave the womb, our parents, our family, our friends, all these people issue judgement upon judgement upon us. They cause us pain and make us feel "imperfect". It doesn't take very long before we think we are imperfect too. All the pain from all the judgement, eventually causes us to issue similar judgements on others. We just keep on with the viscious cycle because we do not know better.

Now you do.

Love all, Judge none, be at peace.

With love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 
The only parts of the bible that can be considered "scripture" are the words dierectly from the mouth of God or by His appointed prophets. The rest of the Bible can only be considered "writings" , no writing may supercede the words of God. If the "New" Testament comes in conflict with the old by God's own words the "new" must be considered false. The Torah says that nothing should be added or taken away from His words...there are a long list of curses upon those who do add or take away. Yeshua (Jesus' real name), is the Word of God incarnate. That means He is the Torah and the Prophets in the flesh. He did not come to abloish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfil it...the greek word for Fulfill means to clarify or to illustrate. Everything that Yeshua did on this Earth was in complete compliance with the Word of God. In the Beginning was the Word...Actually that was John talking about Yeshua, The first sentence of the Bible is in the beginnig God created the heavens and the earth...That is what it says in English, In Hebrew it says "In the beginning God created the Alef and the Tav the heavens and the Earth. The Alef and the Tav in Greek (which is what the original Aramaic "new" Testament manuscripts were translated into) is The Alpha and the Omega. God created His Word The Alef and the Tav (Alpha and Omega), and then together they created the heavens and the Earth. Yeshua is the Word...would he have done away with everything He stood for? Would He have flouted His Fathers commandments? NEVER!!
He came to be an example of how to live out the commandments. If you read the Bible without the spin that Pagan religion has put on it, then you will see that nothing has changed...God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. One Law for one people, the covenanat with God is an ETERNAL covenant. To try and change His commandments, to say they no longer are valid, that Yeshua 's death was to do away with the Law would be to make God a liar, since He said His Law was eternal.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Johnze
Oh well, sure sucks to be a catholic or protestant spending eternity in Heaven with a bunch of pedo;s who rape and murder little children.

But hey, thats like totaly forgiveable in the eyes of the jew god right?


So Is cutting off heads,beating a woman,stoning a woman,letting her father or husband kill her,murder 1.8 million Armenians,cut off a hand for stealing a loaf of bread,flying planes into buildings,Oh but you gotta believe in Allah to go to heaven for that! go eat a pig dog



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by elle.mental
 


My friend, I found nothing that we are at odds with in what you posted. Where do you think we disagree?



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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I think Jesus would see us as the same level as 1st graders. And I don't think 1st graders should be saying which of their classmates should live or die....



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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so can i kill in self defence or not. I dont want to go to hell for shooting a guy that was going to shoot me



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
so can i kill in self defence or not. I dont want to go to hell for shooting a guy that was going to shoot me


My friend, hell is of your own making. Someone tries to kill you. You kill him instead. Now you have that guilt on your hands. His family is pissed at you. His friends think you were wrong. His Brother can't handle the loss. He comes to kill you. The cycle repeats.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Judge not, love all, live in peace.

With love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by earth2
 


You can't stick just to the Commandments because the Bible constantly contradicts itself. The Commandment only seems to count for murder, whereas if God commands the Israelites to go out and commit genocide they aren't breaking the commandment. Back when I was a teenager, and a Christian, it always struck me as odd that so many Christians were pro-death penalty but anti-abortion and that many of them supported the war... It seemed so odd, until I actually read my Bible, the book is filled with violence and killing, even God himself gets into the action on occasion killing innocent people (and even children).

So can a Christian go to Heaven if they are pro-capitol punishment? Sure they can IF Capitol Punishment is considered different from murder. As for war... well the God of the Bible is pretty warlike, it'd be pretty hypocritical of him to damn people for supporting war.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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My friends, if I have judged the word of God incorrectly, explain how these words of wisdom do not say the same thing.


"Do to no one what you yourself dislike."
—Tobit 4:15


"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
—Talmud, Shabbat 31a
"Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes."
—Sirach 31:15


Matthew 7:12
12In everything, do to others what you would want them to do to you. This is what is written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Luke 6:31
31Do to others as you want them to do to you.

Luke 10:25-28
25And one day an authority on the law stood up to put Jesus to the test. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to receive eternal life?”
26"What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you understand it?” 27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your strength and with all your mind.’(Deuteronomy 6:5) And, ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ ” 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do that, and you will live.”.



With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 9-9-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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i dont support the death penalty or war, and i dont expect to go to heaven either.

sorry for the edit i messed up im new










edit on 8-9-2010 by earth2 because: Correct the Heading




edit on 9-9-2010 by badgrammaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by badgrammaman

Originally posted by earth2
Assuming there is a heaven and God gave us the Ten Commandments..

The sixth commandment is very clear - THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
And supporting the war makes you an accomplice.
Same as the death penalty, if you are for it, you are breaking a commandment.


I was going to include some Bible quotes to back it up, but for every Bible verse there is always another to contradict and I thought, lets keep it simple.
So, sticking with the commandments only, how can you be for killing and still go to heaven?

What would Jesus do? Would he obey the commandment or support the death penalty and War killings?

In my opinion, it is so simple to answer that question.

god kills every day, he/she should practice what he preacher`s










edit on 8-9-2010 by earth2 because: Correct the Heading




posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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We love you Earth2...we won't put you in an electric chair =)



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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Fear of debt due for sins upon death has killed many a good person,
stopped them right in their tracks, seconds away from one simple action between defending themselves and living,
and hesitating and getting killed.
You try to hurt me or my loved ones, youre getting put down.
You try to kill me or my loved ones you are dying, right now.
I will not randomly seek a trouble with you, I'll go out of my way to avoid one,
but if someone comes looking with intent, why would you not handle your business?
GOD sent them to harvest you?
no no and no..... maybe they are just trouble, not troubled, trouble!
They are trying to take your life,
turn the other cheek created an unarmed army.
I'll take the OT god method, thank you.
"and he smote them, all of them, and left none to call for the others, and they were gathered and burned."
you can be a gentle loving peace seeking person, I'm all for that, it's all that I want.
but when that ignorant, selfish, murdering blood lusting twisted freak is seconds away from changing your quiet little world forever,
you had better survive, to keep the love alive.
Call me cold, but business is business, I just want to survive.
War? youre an employee, and you just want your shift to be over so you can go home.
Death Penalty? is it something you earned and if yes then you burn.
Heaven? it's an afterlife theory, and a nice little strip joint about 15 miles away through the woods,
I've been to one of them.
Good luck with all that.



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