meat = shorter life

Originally posted by Son of Will
This entire paragraph is bogus. There were large associations between meat and disease, inverse associations between plant proteins and disease, with small associations between wheat and disease. Since this is exactly what naysayers have said in the past, I'm assuming you just did a copy&paste of someone else's claims. That's sloppy.

Thanks for a modicum of common sense.

By the way it's entirely possible that some plants and/or their proteins are somehow harmful to humans, but by and large this is not supported by data regarding most of the veggies we consume. I'm pretty sure you heard of harmful hormonal effects of soy on humans. Thing is, we don't have to be dogmatic about anything but make the best educated decision possible, and it should be plain clear to anyone with half a brain that cutting down on meat and grease will do you good. You don't even have to eliminate meat 100% from your diet to reap the benefits.

www.opposingviews.com...

It is usually claimed that meat-eating peoples have a short life span, but the Aborigines of Australia, who traditionally eat a diet rich in animal products, are known for their longevity (at least before colonization by Europeans). Within Aboriginal society, there is a special caste of the elderly. Obviously, if no old people existed, no such group would have existed. In his book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, Dr. Price has numerous photographs of elderly native peoples from around the world. Explorers such as Vilhjalmur Stefansson reported great longevity among the Innuit (again, before colonization).

Similarly, the Russians of the Caucasus mountains live to great ages on a diet of fatty pork and whole raw milk products. The Hunzas, also known for their robust health and longevity, eat substantial portions of goat's milk which has a higher saturated fat content than cow's milk. In contrast, the largely vegetarian Hindus of southern India have the shortest life-spans in the world, partly because of a lack of food, but also because of a distinct lack of animal protein in their diets. H. Leon Abrams' comments are instructive here:

Vegetarians often maintain that a diet of meat and animal fat leads to a pre-mature death. Anthropological data from primitive societies do not support such contentions.

There isn't enough data to support your claim of vegetarianism as proof of longevity. Maybe it's the MODERN meats we eat today with all their chemicals, poisons and byproducts which are added that substantiate your claim. That I would agree with.

reply to post by Ong Bak


I don't think it's so much a matter of meat.. But perhaps too much. Vegetables are quite healthy to be eaten, and provide a lot of nutrition that it is otherwise hard to obtain. What do I see people usually eating? I actually have trouble finding places which serve vegetables in large amounts.

reply to post by Gridrebel


There's a mountain of correlation data in The China Study showing a strong link between any and all kinds of meat, and diseases that manifest in the long-term.

I agree it's important to not ignore claims like those regarding the Hindus of Southern India - I tried to find some source data for that, and couldn't find it. Are you sure it's not just a rumor? Or how was that data obtained in the first place, I wonder? I would love to see where it came from, if anyone can find it.

Without applying a great deal of scrutiny to this area - like the kind of scrutiny that was done in The China Study, cross-correlating dozens and dozens of isolated environmental factors - it is hard to really do much with a claim like that. Know what I mean?

reply to post by Gridrebel


errr did you know that the average lifespan of our ancestors pre industrial age, regardless of where they were in the world was only 30 yrs? Aborginal people lived in the harshest enviornment and their lifespan before white man was just the same. Any man or woman living past the yrs of 25 would be considered an elder and living past 40 would have made you an ancient. Thats why in tribal groups young girls are married at a very young age as soon as their menstrate they become a woman ready to give birth to the next generation.

Originally posted by Miraj
I actually have trouble finding places which serve vegetables in large amounts.

You are welcome to my kitchen.

reply to post by Gridrebel


I find the source you quoted sort of iffy. It mentions "Russians of North Caucasus" who live to a very long age on fatty diet. Being a Russian myself, I'm astounded by this claim. Never heard of many Russians to live to a hundred. If the author meant "Georgians", yes, this nation is known for many cases of longevity but I doubt there is that much red meat consumed there either.

Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by redhorse

 

My IQ score has increased since I went vegan. By roughly 5-10 points. I won't say what it is, but I assure you, I'm no slouch. And you're wrong about the original study, it is the most impressive epidemiological study on nutrition ever conducted in history. Try taking a look at it sometime, especially before commenting in a thread about it.

ETA - Geeze, seems like the ATS motto got thrown into the dumpster for this thread. I wish people would be a bit more intelligent when it comes to such an important subject. You all care about the future, the NWO, maintaining personal and national sovereignty, but when it comes to your very own bodies, you ignore sound science?

edit on 8-9-2010 by Son of Will because: clarification

Seriously. Who repeatedly tests their IQ or gives these test any validity at all? i'm not sure that's something you should be bragging about.

What applies to the Chinese may not apply to all races.

I bet its all a ploy by farmers to scare you into eating yer veggies laced with Monsanto poison....thoughts?

Originally posted by Ong Bak
so i read an article the other day taht cited some study with thousands of men and women conducted over a period of like 25 years that showed a direct relationship between meat consumption and increased mortality rates/shorter life spans.
im not here to argue the validty of said study, im jsut wondering if the amount of people int he study, it think it was liek 50k people and the length of the study (25 years) is long enough to prove once and for all that what many well educated peopel have known for alogn time, that meat will kill you slowly, its legit?
or will meat eaters continue to deny the obvious fact that its poisoning their bodies becasue they jsut like to eat dead animals?

I read a similar study that demonstrated that people who jsut like to eat dead animals will die.
Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


My life just turned out that way *shrug*. And I definitely would consider those tests credible - the kinds I was taking were considered more in-depth than most - they take 3-4 separate 6-hour sessions to complete. Can show a lot of things, IQ is one of them. As I mentioned at the time though, it's just an anecdote, and not really meant to be considered in any other context.

Originally posted by koder
I bet its all a ploy by farmers to scare you into eating yer veggies laced with Monsanto poison....thoughts?

Sure, I guess that we are witnessing a losing battle by the Monsanto Farmers, against the Big Pharma who supplies expensive drugs to cattle farms. Which you end up ingesting anyhow.

Did I say "buy organic"? Oh, if I did, did I say "grow some veggies of your own"? It's not hard, people. My black currant is the best in the nation. Or so I think

reply to post by kimish

I'm sorry as I should have been more specific. Meats and fish have amino acid ratios that you can't find in the plant kingdom. Ratios being the key word.

Hemp Oil provides the ideal 3:1 balance of Omega-3 to Omega-6 oils. It also contains both 3, 6 and GLA oils.

Each 15ml (1 Tablespoon) contains the following Essential Fatty Acids:
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 54.8%
Alpha Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 18.1%
Oleic Acid (Omega 9) 11.2%
Palmitic Acid 6.8%
Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) 4.8%
Stearic Acid 2.4%
Octadecatetraenoic Acid 1.4%
Eicosenoic Acid 0.3%
Behenic Acid 0.3%

Source

Hempseed's amino acid profile is close to "complete" when compared to more common sources of proteins such as meat, milk, eggs and soy. The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in one tablespoon (15 ml) per day of hemp oil easily provides human daily requirements for EFAs

And then lets look at protein...from Hemp

Hemp seeds can contain up to 36% protein. In the 1950s, scientists worked to determine lab models for foods, the vegetable protein model was derived from hemp seed and was called edestin. The protein in hemp seed is comprised of approximately 65% of edestin and can be found only in hemp seed protein. Edestin aids digestion, is low in phosphorus and is considered the backbone of human cellular DNA. The other one third of hemp seed protein is Albumin, another high quality globulin protein similar to that found in egg whites.

Source

From a Bodybuilders Perspective... You should Probably read this..

It’s called hemp protein. And you might be asking yourself, “Whoa, gee, man... Is that the stuff you smoke?” And of course, it’s not. There’s hemp and cannabis. Cannabis is the female plant... And hemp is the male plant, which has a negligible THC content. So, it doesn’t cause any highs.

Then research is showing that hemp is one of the most amazing proteins you can possibly give your body. Let me break down what hemp does... What makes it so great? And how can you use it to accelerate your muscle gains, and burn off your body fat?

Why Is This The Greatest Protein Source Out There? Hemp seeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary for muscle repair and hypertrophy. There is no other single plant source that has all the essential amino acids in such an easily digestible form, the enzymes, the bacteria and the essential fatty acids in such a perfect ratio to meet athlete’s nutritional needs.

The Protein Scandal

I did the cabbage soup diet once and started losing handfuls of hair after about 6 weeks. I have posted about it here before. It was the only change in my life. I started eating meat agian and my hair stopped falling out. It took about three months before it started to really grow in. I think some people need more protein than others.

ETA Look here vset.net...&PotatoWashing.html even chimps eat meat

The June 2001 issue of Natural History speaks of field studies of scattered groups of chimpanzees and their degree of carnivory. A tribe at the Mahale Mountains Wildlife Research Center in Tanzania, for example, is known to hunt and kill ten different species of mammal. Other tribes are described as "almost entirely vegetarian."

it would stand to reason that someone who would make such a radical change in diet like becoming a vego would also be conscientious in other areas ie not drinking, exercising, not smoking, vitamin popping its like saying people who buy sweat bands are less fat

Humans never would have evolved into what they are today without meat. Saying meat leads to a shorter life is increadibly vague. There are many different types of meats, some healthy and some not. There is meat from animals fed and injected with hormones or filled with preservatives later and those which are not. Not exploring all the variables is very unscientific. Also vegetarianism is not necisarily more or less healthy as each person has their own needs from our genetic diversity

There're a lot of studies that show eating fruits/vegetables doesn't reduce cancer.

Look here:
www.webmd.com - Fruits, Vegetables Offer Little Cancer Protection...

Here:
www.sciencedaily.com - How antioxidants can accelerate cancers, and why they don't protect against them...
(note: antioxidants in foods/supplements don't usually accelerate or reduce the cancer because they're not in the right place. It's possible increasing the antioxidants where it matters might accelerate the cancer. In general, from googling elsewhere, it seems the latest research says antioxidants are not the holy grail once thought to be.)

........
Drs. Tuveson and Chandel propose that taking antioxidant pills or eating vast quantities of foods rich in antioxidants may be failing to show a beneficial effect against cancer because they do not act at the critical site in cells where tumor-promoting ROS are produced -- at cellular energy factories called mitochondria. Rather, supplements and dietary antioxidants tend to accumulate at scattered distant sites in the cell, "leaving tumor-promoting ROS relatively unperturbed," the researchers say.
.........

And here (a UK journal review of the evidence):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov - Fruit and vegetables and cancer risk...

.........
General nutritional principles indicate that healthy diets should include at least moderate amounts of fruit and vegetables, sufficient to prevent deficiencies of any nutrients, especially micronutrients such as vitamin C, which are mostly supplied by fruits and vegetables. However, the available data suggest that general increases in fruit and vegetable intake would not have much effect on cancer rates, at least in relatively well-nourished populations. Future research may be productive if it can be focused on biological pathways known to be relevant in the development of specific types of cancer, and can reliably assess long-term intakes of relevant fruits and vegetables. Currently, advice in relation to diet and cancer should include the recommendation to consume adequate amounts of fruit and vegetables, but should put more emphasis on the well-established adverse effects of obesity and high alcohol intakes on cancer risk.

My grandfather in scotland lived to 98 on a steady mince and potato diet. Maybe a few carrots thrown in. And jam sandwiches. I think the poster who claims we need to look to our heredity is right. I can live just fine on meat alone, almost. I guess to in my grandads era the meat wasn't so full of crap and I think it's that crap that will turn out to be the smoking gun in early death.

a reply to: igloo
My grandpa lived to 100 and he ate everything. Was an alcoholic and borderline diabetic. When he died he had cancer. I honestly think this health thing is a lot more complicated than it appears.

There may be no one answer. Maybe each person is different.

Whatever works, eh?

a reply to: Ong Bak

Depends on the rest of the diet... If combined with carbs/sugars/potatoes/bread/fruits and rest of crap like that, sure they'll die early, but that ain't just because of the meat... If eaten in a low carb/high fat diet, without grains/fruits/sugars etc, it'll have you stronger and healthier and longer living...sorry, don't have the research at hand but it is done and available.

It's about the combination of nutrients, not one or the other.