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Separation of Church and State?????

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posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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Well we all know how the government pushes the separation of Church and State right? I mean if someone tries to pray at a graduation ceremony, a football game, any school function or any government function, we get the ACLU screaming FOUL! Right?

Here you go-City Council Meetings to Begin with Muslim Prayers

Snippet-



The Council announced Tuesday that it has invited local imams to perform Islamic invocations at the beginning of the Council meetings in September.

An e-mail from the Common Council called it "an act of solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters."


I am sure the ACLU will get right on this. Pffft.

Can anyone say MOONBATTERY?



edit on Wed Sep 8 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: to correct the snippet from article




posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Separation of Church of Sate is a must! Since the U.S. is a multicultural country with citizens of all religions and non religious beliefs. We shouldn't have one dominated belief system.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:24 PM
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I don't know enough about the story to give an informed opinion but I'll just say, if its not about Christianity no one gets their panties in a bunch.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


i'd feel better about participating in this thread if it began with a prayer or other affiliated invocations.

saltheart foamfollower, could you please lead us in prayer?


seperation of church and state? get all churches out of my state, then we can discuss the seperation. until then, i really have no basis for comparison to the contrary.

G.O.D. = Government Of Dollars $$$

[edit on 7-9-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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I myself could care less if the city council opened with a prayer to the purple flying spaghetti monster.

I do not see the 1st amendment being separation of Church and State.

That being said though, it does make reference to preferential treatment.

If you are going to destroy any Christian involvement in government, you DAMN well do the same for Islam.

BUT, I am sure nothing will be done. Sharia law here we come!



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Look, this is going to fall into the same category as racism, hate crimes, etc. Christianity is going to be treated like white people.

It's going to be OK to have a Muslim prayer - because we are trying to make nice with Muslims. Just like it's OK to have a Black-only Congressional Caucus - because we are trying to make nice for past mistakes. [I mean mistakes on a grand scale, I am certainly not belittling slavery].

However, just as there will never be a White Caucus or White-only college or Whites-only fund for college, Christianity is the majority, just as whites, and therefore must seemingly pay a "being the majority" penalty.

Unless people speak up, and we ALL should since this is a blatant violation of separation of church and state, and I would do the same if it were a Christian prayer, we are going to continue to stand back and watch equality go out the window and further watch the majority -- whether it be by race or religion -- persecuted.

Equality puts everyone one and every religion on equal footing. It does grant waivers or exceptions and should not only apply to certain groups.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 




Since I brought up the purple flying spaghetti monster religion.

Everyone bow their heads please.

Oh righteous one, may your bountiful spaghetti be ever filling and ever bountiful.

May your infinite wisdom sustain us in these perilous times.
May your ability to see beyond the colors of man into the purple uplift our spirits where we may all become purple.

And may your ability to see beyond the ether and ability to give us salvation be forever burned into our minds.

AAAAAFLYINGPURPLESPAGHETTIMONSTERMEN!



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
I myself could care less if the city council opened with a prayer to the purple flying spaghetti monster.





posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by lpowell0627
 


I have to agree.

They already have a name for it, Islamaphobia.

That will be used to allow the Muslims to get public funding because they are the minority and have been oppressed over the millenia.

The ol liberation theology rearing it's head for the salvation of Islam.

Hmmmm, attacking the victims of Islam and turning the whole thing on it's head.

Amazing.



posted on Sep, 7 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


They dont have to do the same for Islam. They have to do the same for everyone. If the muslims cant pray, the christians cant pray..



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


They dont have to do the same for Islam. They have to do the same for everyone. If the muslims cant pray, the christians cant pray..



However, the question raised by the OP is exactly the reverse of what you just said.

So, if Christians can't pray at a council meeting, neither can muslims.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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I just want to reiterate my point of view on the separation of Church and State.

I do not believe there is any such thing.

Let me post the First Amendment-

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nothing in there about separation. Nothing in there about a teacher not being able to pray. Nothing in there about a city council not being able to pray.

The problem is this, there is a concerted effort to destroy the Christian faith's ability to say ANYTHING in the public. Yet we have government officials bowing down to either pressure or idiocy and allowing Islamic prayers to be read and discussed in government circles.

Please explain the fricking difference?!




posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

So, if Christians can't pray at a council meeting, neither can muslims.


Wrong in your assumptions...


Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower

Here you go-City Council Meetings to Begin with Muslim Prayers

Snippet-



The Council announced Tuesday that it has invited local imams to perform Islamic invocations at the beginning of the Council meetings in September.

Though meetings don't regularly begin with any form of prayer, an email from the Common Council called it "an act of solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters."


I am sure the ACLU will get right on this. Pffft.

Can anyone say MOONBATTERY?


Interesting ...click that link you provided...I don't see the excerpt you qouted, but I do see this



On Facebook, Council Minority Leader Luis Cotto wrote: "We start every single council meeting with a prayer. 99% of the prayers are Christian based, and in three years I recall one Rabbi coming through."



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Wait a minute, the city council was having Christian prayers all along?

I highly doubt it. The ACLU would have been on them like stink on........



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Chalk another one up for Islams exploitation of Americas "Politically Correct Machine!"

If anyone has ever read up on the idea of the take over of countries by the Islamic faith then you will know that this is just part of the game plan. Things are going swimmingly , exactly according to plan......exploit the weakness to gain the foothold.......

Read the news in Europe and France about how things are going there now with the "moderate" muslims.

America has lost its testicles........Im all for freedom of religion, but if you tell one religion you cant do something, it has to be across the board........stop trying to be PC and morally superior, its a false feeling of such and is a weakness.......grow some rocks America.....

"Dont offend minorities, dont offend Islam, dont offend gays, dont offend illegal immigrants" seriously....what happen to our back bone? We have raised a nation of sissies now......

And because of that people with more drive and spine for what they believe in, are taking over our country



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Easy now.

Would not want to be labeled a racist, homophobe, islamaphobe, etc etc etc etc.


Sorry, I am sick and tired of the crap these folks spew.

Tell you what MBTM, if they just left everyone alone, do you think these idiots would have a chance in hell of even existing? Of course not. Without the government fomenting this crap, they would go the same way as the dinosaurs. They use this crap to perpetuate their control parameters. Sooner or later peeps will wake up, or we will all be marxist and sharia law compliant.

People are waking up. It is obvious when you look at things like the yahoo news comments.

Look at them, the peeps are waking up. I still think the polls are all make believe. When I read through main news sites on the web and see a 19 to 20 comments ratio where the peeps are sick and TIRED of the politically correct, I see something that lifts my heart.

I think the polls are skewed down about 20 points. Just look at the news sites. They cannot be wrong.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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Separation of church and state is vital. No political decisions should be based on religious factors per se. I say this as a religious person myself. The government should be carried out according to the constitution and the dictates of rationality and reason.

That said, I think there are certain things that can be defined as religious and also reflective of a nation's traditional culture, and this is where it gets tricky. I believe nations have (whether they like it or not) a body of shared cultural traditions. No human being is completely outside his/her culture. So stuff like "In God We Trust" on currency should be treated more as "cultural tradition" rather than as a religious controversy in my mind. It seems like it would be easier just to ignore it, and those who wage battles over issues like this are actually making it a nuch bigger issue than it needs or deserves to be. There are some who disagree, I know, and I respect that because its difficult terrain to wade through.

More generally, I see arguments over symbolism (religious or otherwise) and excessive word-play as dangerously distracting -- draining much needed energy and attention from more pressing political issues. This is why I deeply abhor "identity politics" in all its forms. I hope to live to see a stake driven through the rotten heart of the abomination known as "political correctness" -- the mind that argues obsessively and destructively over words, syntax, and symbolism. Fiddling while Rome burns.

Politically minded people would do better to direct their attention to more vital issues -- the economy, the military, the geo-strategic big picture, resource-related issues, long-term viability, social stability, privacy and personal rights, and so forth. Western nations face deep challenges in these areas that are not getting enough debate because people are too hung up on arguments over symbolic gestures.





edit on 9/8/10 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by maybereal11
 


Wait a minute, the city council was having Christian prayers all along?

I highly doubt it. The ACLU would have been on them like stink on........


Strange, she quotes your source directly - something which you did not do yourself, and your response is to dismiss her, offhand, rather than to fix your OP which contains an outright fabrication?

You wrote:



"Though meetings don't regularly begin with any form of prayer, an email from the Common Council called it "an act of solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters."


I have bolded the words which do not appear ANYWHERE in your article. Do you make it a habit of adding editorial to articles and then presenting them as quoted outside sources?

What that article does say, as Maybereal11 pointed out is:


On Facebook, Council Minority Leader Luis Cotto wrote: "We start every single council meeting with a prayer. 99% of the prayers are Christian based, and in three years I recall one Rabbi coming through."


Very misleading Saltheart Foamfollower.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Well, I believe you are absolutely right.

See, this is the weird part about it. I am a VERY spiritual person, but believe that government should not EVER legislate morals.

Funny how those that espouse the rhetoric of separation of Church and State are the ones that continually legislate morals. e.g. drugs, welfare, funding for almost all social systems.

Tell me, is this NOT a moral decision? They are bringing secular moral values into the argument of government. Kind of oxymoronic in my opinion.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Since the excerpt in your OP does not actually exist in the article.

And the article clearly states that for the last 3 years they held prayers at the begining of meetings.

How about you edit out the "inaccuracy" in your OP? Lest a MOD do it for you.


edit on 8-9-2010 by maybereal11 because: spelling




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