Is the owl on the dollar the same MOLOCH god from Bohemian Grove?

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posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by frozenspark
If you can even call that figure an owl. And isn't that picture of Bohemian Grove from Alex Jones? If so, how sure are you that he is to be trusted anyway.


Because ive seen the footage, where it has bin taken.

Understand by placing comments like that people really get anoint, its a fact of documentation that its there.

But to meet you half way Alex Jones name makes thing fishy quickly.
But the owl is there... I believe




posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by Monsieur Neary
reply to post by spiritualgirl
 


Other than the conspiracy-minded, who claims that that's an owl on the dollar bill? (or, "Hoo" claims? ha ha). Looks like it could be just about anything. Or nothing.

Honestly, if a parakeet was a masonic symbol, that's what people would claim to see.


Get a really nice magnifying glass and look for yourself. The owl is there.
I have looked at the 'owl' on the dollar bill under different powers of magnification. Under very low magnification, it looks similar to an owl. If you increase the magnification, still keeping the entire 'owl' in the field of view, it doesn't look anything like an owl anymore.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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It's probably what people want to believe: is there an owl or not on the dollar biljet?


I believe there is. Is it the Moloch symbol well hidden in front of everyone? Yes I believe so.
Isn't is very smart to hide a symbol in pane sight?
And let's not forget what the Moloch symbol refers to: something or someone which demands or requires COSTLY SACRIFICES


It's the same with the owl on the building of David Rockefeller, in front of were 'We Are The Change' had their protest in October last year. Is it the Moloch Symbol or not? I do think yes it is.

Why else of ALL animals in the world is the Owl used on that building?

Watch the video at 2.35 min.




posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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it's the Owl from the original Clash Of The Titans. the mechanical owl.

but its not, and how do you sleep at night thinking all this stuff?

there are real conspiracies such as the feds telling websites what to post. its all right there, under your nose



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Sometimes things just fall into place i doubt the intent was to put a hidden owl on the dollar bill but it ended up there and yes they do a mock sacrifice to a giant owl statue at Bohemian Grove so there could be a unexplained supernatural connection between the two....after all God does work in mysterious ways.


But i don't think it was intentional.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
First, the owl is not a symbol of molech, the bull is. And secondly, the owl is a symbol of ATHENA, and yes, theyre most likely the same, as well as the owl hedge around the white house


Athena or the much older female Babylonian Goddess.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


look, it is either an owl or a spider. Either way, it's there. To me, the spider makes more sense as the spider webs are everywhere. But that is just my silly logic. My comment on the Grove sacrificing people is kind of a personal thing. I think that if you are going to post information about things, they should be true. I don't know what goes on at the Grove any more than you do, but it stands to reason that nobody get killed in a ritualistic fashon. But if you insist that it's true, simply provide some proof. Then we will all be educated. I just think people fear what they don't understand and then decide to make up wild shiznit to make other paranoid delusionists follow them down the road to Nutsville. Again, just my opinion.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Or how about, is the owl in the new cartoon movie, Legends of the Guardians, the one and the same?

Very interesting similarities actually. I think this movie definitely has something to do with Bohemian Grove symbolism.

Watch the movie carefully and get back to me. Oh, and let me know if you like the movie, too! What did you like? Didn't?



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by dontreally
 


Yes, the diacritical marks are what allow us to translate properly.
And what allow us to know that Molech was and is a derogatory insult to the god called Melek (King) by his people.

You may think your religion breeds people who are perfect, but nobody here is. That is a dangerous delusion to have, but one necessarily spawned by your religion.

You have to realize that I got my degrees in ancient Near Eastern Religions, and beyond that my "gnostic freemason tutors" taught me well. I'm not failing to understand you. I'm just disagreeing with you.

Also, Hecate and Athena do not equal the same archetype.
Hecate = Hel = Ereshkigal.
She has nothing to do with Athena.


Judaism doesnt at all believe man is perfect. That is a completely unjewish idea. But unlik4e chirstianity and pagandom, Judaism believes man is born with an inherent goodness. That he has it within himself to transform the negative nature within him - his 'animal' soul. Man cant and will never be perfect; all G-d expects is for us to TRY, make an effort, to be as the army says "as best as you can be".

On the contrary, the pagan idea of apotheosis, of the transformation of man into GOD, that is an arrogant, haughty and presumptuous belief which necessitates the concept of an inherent perfection already within the human condition. That evil and good, virtue and vice, all necessary parts within the human personality - This is an emotionally driven decsion, not at all motivated by a reasonable understanding of the true human condition or G-ds creation. For instance, we know through mysticism that the masculine within creation is the active (but reversed in hindu thought), and the feminine is passive. We see this within everything; to the seed and potential given from man to a women which develops the seed. The seed contains everything within it already. The sole job of the female is a passive one; to simply develop it according to the potential already existant within the seed. Same with nature. G-d created it, nature is simply the manifestation. Men are public, women private, men intellectually focused, whereas a women, whose head typically reaches the heart region of a man, is emotionally centered. This is the dynamic; the intellect must GOVERN the heart in the same way that the head is above it. This doesnt mean that Judaism suppresses the emotions; on the contrary, it refines them. Paganism is alluded to in the first conflict in torah - which would be the conflict throuhout the 6000 years of human history. Cain offered to G-d an offering of flax (which grows on a single stock, with pods opposite each other) while Abel offered a sheep. The first offering alludes to Cains attitude towards the creator. He doesnt expect to offer his animal soul up to G-d as Abel did. He instead intends to transcend the entire concept of service to G-d, and to live in harmony with the evil/chaos and disorder within creation. Because G-d saw that he was PERSONALLY motivated, and sought to honor himself and his own egoic desires, he rejected his offering. Whereas Abel, who symbolizes the entire Jewish people, offered to G-d in his humility a sheep (aries). He offered his highest personal aspirations to G-d, and was willing to serve him in simplicity. G-d accepted his offerring and favored Abel because of his display of humility. This led Cain (pagandom) to HATE Abel (Judaism), which spurred Cain (pagandom) to kill Abel. Because of this Cain was banished from the presence of G-d and given his own area, line and area to rule over. Cain is a symbol for the pagan ideology, and his literal ancestors are nobles and leaders throughout the history in the modern pagan world (and yes, interbreeding among elites is a real thing) . Through history, they have repeatedly killed 'abel' who continues to regenerate himself. This is what the Ari says "Moshe was the reincarnation of Abel, and Moshiach will be a reincarnation of Moshe". The pagans are ousted from G-ds presence because of this atttitude. Amongst the arrogant, the holy and him cant abide together (because an arrogant person makes no room for that possibility).The pagans simply choose, because they like things the way they are, to reject the premise of Torah and the Hebrew tradition, that the creator of the universe expects man to work on his lower animal nature, to follow 7 basic ethical principles given to Noach (REST, the father of mankind) so that man can give HONOR to his creator as opposed to himself. Paganism is intrinsically ABOUT rejection and denigration of the father, destroying him completely, and lauding and giving honor to the feminine (this was recently hinted at in a very obvious way in Avatar; with EYWA being a transmutation of the tetragrammaton corresponding to the permutation of Shevat/Aquarius). This is why society nowadays is so distorted. The natural function and role of the male has been supplanted by the female. you cant turn on an american sitcom where this isnt blatantly apparent. The dad is a complete idiot and moron who needs his wife to put him in his place; predictive programming. It because of shows like this that pagan overlords of society have virtually restructured and mutated the natural human condition. Heres an important proverb " a Tree that attacks its roots is destined to wither". Just as Judaism continues to regenerate itself, so shall the natural order the creator established return to its default, programmed state. Mankind can attempt all they like to change it; in the end, theyre nothing more than puppets being manipulated by GAOTU, who determines human history as much as he controls the string, atom and the largest galaxies. Everything is in his hands; though, despite that, and of course this idea is completely paradoxical, there is still Free Will,. Maybe to a pagan the mutual coexistence between providence and free will is an irritating concept; because it means that even though theyre sinning, they cant attribute fault to anyone but themselves; therefore they will be punished for their character faults; sins in thought, speech and action.

Also, i dont know why you think you were taught well by your gnostic tutors. That distrubs me that you think you could be instructed better in the Jewish tradition by non Jews with an entirely different spirituality than by Jews themselves. Thats like me getting an opinion about Israel from a palestinian; its a conflict of interest. If anything, study both opinions. Otherwise youre willingly following a distorted and fallacious belief which would otherwise be challenged by a philosophy/spirituality which you could if you wanted to allow your self to be influenced by.

But alas, you seem pretty convinced, having a degree in 'oriental studies' - which only means that youve absorbed someone elses ideas about mesopotamian culture/religion/spirituality. Having studied alot into this area, probably not as much as you, but ive done a fair bit of study myself, i can definitely say that the information especially about Judaism is manipulated and often homogeneously clumped in with the other religions; as if they are ideologically similar. This is especially apparent in comparitive mythology; like with Joseph Campbell.

Judaism is diametrically opposed to the spirituality and archetypal format described in his writings. I actually have read authentic Jewish sources. I take offence and i find it quite alarming when CG Jung quotes the Talmud, Ramak or Rashi, or Isaac Luria and attempts like the dominican friars of the middle ages to correlate Jewish symbols/allegoery with their underlying thesis. Its incredibly dishonest. Anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows thats not how their wisdom is traditionally interpreted esoterically. Compared to the shoddy explanations given by these gnostic academics, Kabbalah and Chassidut is deep, honest, sincere and about mans complete union with the creator, through loving, FEARING and developing a faithful relationship with him, as a women is faithful to her husbdand. Which is why once again i reitterate my earlier point about paganism; that its inherently feministic. They like a disobedient wife have rejected their spouse and like a transvestite pretends to be the male, the active, determining principle. The torah is clear about the role of a wife relative to her husband. She is passive in all decision making. Therefore, mankind, before their creator, who is in the role of being 'the femine', the receptive, is PASSIVE - which is the natural function of G-ds creation. This is also why the 19th ammendment was so important in destroying the family and creating the corrosive feminism that we have today. A man and his wife should form one unit; together they should arrive at a decision on who to vote for. But the elites challenged a womens natural susceptibility to succumb to egotism. She was being told that she was inferior, subjugated and demeaned before her husband, when in truth the decision was usually an agreement between the husband AND wife.

Heres a very apt anecdote from the book culture of terror - the collapse of america about John Adams and his feminist wife abigail

"Abigail Adams grated on her husband John in letters demanding full legal rights for women: “we are determined to instigate a rebellion” she declared, echoing the women of Athens in Lysistrata. John Adams’ reply was only too apt: men’s legal privileges were essential, he wrote, “we dare not exert our power [in the home] in its full latitude…in practice, you know, we are the subjects. We have only the name of masters. To give up on this would subject us completely to the despotism of the petticoat.”

And yes, youre right about Hecate. The owl though is mostly associated with Athena, and Athena plays a much larger role in Greek metaphysics because of her destined 'bursting through the head of zeus at the end of the aeon', as the legend goes. Athena is that supposed 'higher' wisdom liberated from the laws of Zeus... Zeus here i suppose being analgous with the Jewish creator, although the comparison itself is so demeaning/incorrect. Zeus is merely a single archetype, whereas the creator of the universe, YHVH is everything; the very root of this name is HaYaH "to be". He allows existence to be. His very name contains the entire known universe, as the kabbalah explains. To compare Zeus/Deus/Dyeus - the proto indo-european pagan concept of 'judgement' which is actually more analagous to the name Elohim, with YHVH is peurile. This though is apparently what they think ,which is why when the Romans destroyed the temple they built a temple to Jupiter on it. And later on the muslims erected the dome of the rock to Allah/Elohim.

I also find it funny how Greek legend so often speaks of Torah.

For instance in Hesiod we learn that "Uranus imprisoned Gaia's youngest children in Tartarus, deep within Earth, where they caused pain to Gaia. She shaped a great flint-bladed sickle and asked her sons to castrate Uranus. Only Cronus, youngest and most ambitious of the Titans, was willing: he ambushed his father and castrated him, casting the severed testicles into the sea."

you can learn so much about paganism by reading their mythology; and its speaks directly to the Jewish conception, to the ancient conception, which was held by Adam down to Noach and than finally to Abraham.



edit on 8-9-2010 by dontreally because: spelling/grammatical errors



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You forget, my initial university degrees were obtained by studying under Rabbis among others.
We were taught to look at all Ancient Israelite faiths - not only that one which is preserved within the Torah.
The folk religion of the time differed from the state religion in many ways, and was more of a poly-Yahwism.

Apotheosis is the highest form of praise that you can give to your creators. That is truly being the best that you can be. To live up to the potential bred into us by the serpent Gabriel in the Garden of Eden, the ability of knowledge and understanding, a higher intellect, and he would have taken us all the way to the tree of eternal life, had he not been stopped by Yahweh. And by following what Jesus (Michael/Marduk) taught - the kingdom of god is within you. That's what he meant by that. And he repeated it several times.

By giving up your potential in fear of being burned for all of eternity, you are spitting in the face of every single one of those gods that came here to help us, and paid the prices for it.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by dontreally
 


You forget, my initial university degrees were obtained by studying under Rabbis among others.
We were taught to look at all Ancient Israelite faiths - not only that one which is preserved within the Torah.
The folk religion of the time differed from the state religion in many ways, and was more of a poly-Yahwism.

Apotheosis is the highest form of praise that you can give to your creators. That is truly being the best that you can be. To live up to the potential bred into us by the serpent Gabriel in the Garden of Eden, the ability of knowledge and understanding, a higher intellect, and he would have taken us all the way to the tree of eternal life, had he not been stopped by Yahweh. And by following what Jesus (Michael/Marduk) taught - the kingdom of god is within you. That's what he meant by that. And he repeated it several times.

By giving up your potential in fear of being burned for all of eternity, you are spitting in the face of every single one of those gods that came here to help us, and paid the prices for it.



You do get that Christianity is a rehashing of Greek thought, you know?

Think about it. Judaism has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Paganism; in fact its at complete odds with it. Jesus, Dionysous, Horus, Nebo, Krishna, Hermes, Bachuss, Apollo, Al Khadir in Islam, i can go on listing "god men" who allude to this same archetypal state.

How come christianity SUPPLANTED Judaism? The Jews were subject to terror by the legions of Rome, especially in the time of Hadrian (who appropriated 40% of Romes military might against destroying the Jews- what do you expect from the most pagan/greek of roman emperors, who ordered the murer of his gay love antonious by reneacting the murder of Osiris in the nile. He thereafter deified his murdered lover. This is normal to you?) who killed hundreds of thousands of Jews, along with 10 of Israels greatest leaders - one of whom was the great rabbi akiva by raking off his flesh.

And than look at the middle eages - with the crusades, look at the many exiles - from England, Spain, the inquisition, the many pograms, in Poland, Ukraine, Germany, Italy (being subjugated also by Rome in the a humilating way by forcing Jews to live in Ghettos), Russia, etc etc. And than you have the most horrible European colloboration of all - the holocust (read Hitlers pope for the many details of pius XII). And today the west has used Islam - Ishmael, as a the midrash says "as a sword against Jacob".

You dont do this if your philosophy is shared by other religions. Judaism has ALWAYS beeen about a pure monotheism where mankind recognizes his inherent lowliness before teh creator. Theres no slaying G-d/father, but a recognition of a purpose and goal in life. To even compare your belief system to this clearly says something about how messed up your morality is.

I could have, being a non Jew, accepted this philosophy. But thank HaShem i was led away from that and brought to the truth. Judaism is G-ds actual word; Hebrew G-ds actual mind, and Moshe (Hashem backwards) the ultimate example of how to serve G-d.

comparative mythology is tenuous at best when it tries to make comparisons between Jewish scriptures and other mythologies. It completely ignores the most important artifiact of all - the descendents of these people have ALWAYS been at odds with YOUR descendents - the pagans, whose mantle was passed on to the christian west. Jews have always represented something antithetical to pagan thought- in teh very new testament itself this theme is embodied as the Jews - the representatives of Torah - G-ds Law, G-ds chosen people on earth, being cast as murderers of a fictional mythological archetype (which throughout history has justified romes agenda against Judaism/Jews)

Also, Jews have NEVER EVER spouted a staunch dualistic doctrien like the christian world. The christian world, with the papacy at its head has deliberately created this wrathful G-d. The Christian conception of G-d is dualistic, where the Satan is seen as something evil and other as opposed to being a created force which STRENGTHENS mans. In Christianity, Satan is deified and made a god. In Christianity, the fear of hell, is a real thing. In Judaism, no such fear exists. The onyl fear, which is a rational fear, is being cut off from our source through moral transgression; this is a real and logical fear. YHVH is the true reality, and to remain attached and connected to this name of mercy, of love and kindness, one needs to make a concerted effot; as a son who seeks to honor his father would do.

Compare it to a muscle. A muscle is the physical coutnerpart of mans spiritual 'strength'. For man to become stronger, he needs to face an adversary (Satan)..Likewise, for man to grow stronger physically he needs to lift weights. Just as when one grows stronger, so does the weight he needs to lift grow heavier; ditto with the Satan. As one grows spiritually, so does ones evil inclination - its in the very struggle with your negative nature that you eventually transcend it. Chassidut and kabbalah imbues ones life with enormous meaning, and as Rebbe Nachman, the grandson of the famous Baal Shem Tov taught, ones service for G-d must be done with simchah!. In simplicity, in thankfulness and greatfulness for all the bounty and good weve been granted in life. And honestly, my life is a very happy one. I am aware of my source, all lifes problems trickle away, and best of all, im making an effort to serve G-d in a humble and self effacing way. Were put in this world to KNOW our creator. Its in the very act of creation, of being granted a state of being 'separate', that man is in a position to know the essence of his father in heaven. This is completely different from what paganism teaches; that this world is a massive mistake. Egoic consciousness is bad, judgement and the power of reason is bad...You guys simply worship the irrational, and so dont be surprised when you lose it all in the end; after all, irrationally speaking, that is what you rationally sought for. and Mercy? The archetype of jesus is a Maseka, a Pesul - a created force that mankind has created to bring ease to his gulity conscience.

Pagans simply do not believe in God. They believe they were put here randomly and therefore they try to make the best of it, the best they can. But when notified and told otherwise, having such a strong evil inclination, as the book of genesis depicts what happened to Cain, so do his pagan ancestors relive this experience of being ousted from G-ds presence, because of their tremendous egoic desire - specifically for sex and self satisfaction without lifes necessary boundaries. Its nihilism.

edit on 8-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Electric Crown
it's the Owl from the original Clash Of The Titans. the mechanical owl.

but its not, and how do you sleep at night thinking all this stuff?

there are real conspiracies such as the feds telling websites what to post. its all right there, under your nose


Yes, I do believe that is part of the connection. The mechanical owl was named Bubo. The owl has a lot of metaphorical significance. Darkness is the owl's domain. The owl has special feathers that are shredded at the tip and his flight is silent. He stalks other creatures of the darkness.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by spiritualgirl
 


maybe, if it is an owl, it is Athenas owl?
en.wikipedia.org...
also reference: Nyctimene



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


First of all, the Christianity of today bears little resemblance to the myriad Christianity of old.
Now, it is just another Abrahamic bloodfest, because it is insisted that the OT and the NT correlate.
Those of us who know, know better.
It's not a recycling of Greek thought, but a recycling of Mesopotamian thought.
Much, much older.
Yes, these god-men have come time and again, and we still don't get it.
We're still too afraid of the big bad guy in the sky, striking people down, killing off entire cities, slaughtering male children etc.

Listen dude, you love your god, good for you.
As for me, I can't get far enough away from that megalomaniacal slaughterer.

This discussion isn't about Jewish people, at least it isn't to me.
I'm merely stating the devotion of my soul to Anpu/Djehuti/Gabriel, not to Yahweh.
I gave my soul away freely, out of love. I've never felt so ecstatic.
I'm not trying to win you over. I can see you're a zealotous Yahweh or the highway kind of guy.
I'm just disagreeing with you in an educated, and civil manner.
Also, I find that you respond in kind, which is nice.
The fact that I think you are horribly misguided is beside the point.

I mean, you do realize that I'm a theistic Satanist, right?
That all my education, my degrees, and all my supernatural spiritual guidance has led me to this.
I've been dead. I've been to hell. I like it better down there.
This world, we human beings, it depresses me.



posted on Sep, 8 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesar
Sometimes things just fall into place i doubt the intent was to put a hidden owl on the dollar bill but it ended up there and yes they do a mock sacrifice to a giant owl statue at Bohemian Grove so there could be a unexplained supernatural connection between the two....after all God does work in mysterious ways.


But i don't think it was intentional.


I couldn't disagree more. I believe every single detail on that bill was very intentional. There's nothing random at all about it.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally

Islam also is rife with pagan influences in its Sufism.



I beg to deny this statement. If all Muslims were believing in Sufism, there wouldn't be any Taliban, Islamic suicide bombers, extremist groups such as Al shabab or burqa loving and woman oppressing people such as the Saudi's Wahabis.

Sufi's strive to meditate and try to gain sincerity and excellence via meditation. "To develop a constant and deep concentration, the Sufis employ physical methods such as playing Sufi music, chanting the name of God over and over again, or dancing, as in the case of the whirling dervishes. " (source

Sufi's are peace loving, and I would even go so far to compare them to Buddhists.

I do not see where the pagan influences are in meditation to reach out to god.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
reply to post by spiritualgirl
 


maybe, if it is an owl, it is Athenas owl?
en.wikipedia.org...
also reference: Nyctimene



Ishtar

One can find as the greeks used it the seated person, arm extended with owl on the old seals from Summer. Its really the same thing passed down through history.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by nagabonar

Originally posted by dontreally

Islam also is rife with pagan influences in its Sufism.



I beg to deny this statement. If all Muslims were believing in Sufism, there wouldn't be any Taliban, Islamic suicide bombers, extremist groups such as Al shabab or burqa loving and woman oppressing people such as the Saudi's Wahabis.

Sufi's strive to meditate and try to gain sincerity and excellence via meditation. "To develop a constant and deep concentration, the Sufis employ physical methods such as playing Sufi music, chanting the name of God over and over again, or dancing, as in the case of the whirling dervishes. " (source

Sufi's are peace loving, and I would even go so far to compare them to Buddhists.

I do not see where the pagan influences are in meditation to reach out to god.


Im referring to their hidden worship of the feminine, which is particularly emphasized in the Bektashi sect.

Im not saying EVERY muslim worships this way, nor am i saying every christian gnostic, buddhist, hindu taoist etc worships this way....but they should know that certain forms of worship are prohibited by the laws of noach - and its because of this complete disregard of this Hebraic tradition (though in truth there are those among all world religions who acknowledge this law mentioned in the Talmud Bavli) that G-d, Judaism have a problem...

World peace and rest can only come when mankind follows the 7 Laws given to Noach (whose name means Rest)



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


look, it is either an owl or a spider. Either way, it's there. To me, the spider makes more sense as the spider webs are everywhere. But that is just my silly logic.


That web on the bill is most likely a net patern representing capture of the mind. You can find it all over the place used on offical structures down through history. Here it probably doesnt mean a captured owl but the owl as capturer. The people that use and have used these symbols take it all very seriously.



posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by dontreally
 


First of all, the Christianity of today bears little resemblance to the myriad Christianity of old.
Now, it is just another Abrahamic bloodfest, because it is insisted that the OT and the NT correlate.
Those of us who know, know better.
It's not a recycling of Greek thought, but a recycling of Mesopotamian thought.
Much, much older.
Yes, these god-men have come time and again, and we still don't get it.
We're still too afraid of the big bad guy in the sky, striking people down, killing off entire cities, slaughtering male children etc.

Listen dude, you love your god, good for you.
As for me, I can't get far enough away from that megalomaniacal slaughterer.

This discussion isn't about Jewish people, at least it isn't to me.
I'm merely stating the devotion of my soul to Anpu/Djehuti/Gabriel, not to Yahweh.
I gave my soul away freely, out of love. I've never felt so ecstatic.
I'm not trying to win you over. I can see you're a zealotous Yahweh or the highway kind of guy.
I'm just disagreeing with you in an educated, and civil manner.
Also, I find that you respond in kind, which is nice.
The fact that I think you are horribly misguided is beside the point.

I mean, you do realize that I'm a theistic Satanist, right?
That all my education, my degrees, and all my supernatural spiritual guidance has led me to this.
I've been dead. I've been to hell. I like it better down there.
This world, we human beings, it depresses me.


Oh how strange it is...

I can appreciate your benovolent tone youre speaking with...Though, its massively ironic that someone who chooses hell over heaven, Satan, evil over good, and who believes he can maintain this state of stability, can be such a patient guy.

The very nature of the Satan is meshuga - insane. So....how come you feel your 'self consciousness' can overcome the destructive nature of the Satan ? Youre worship of Kali, of the evil principle, of the divine mother, only has one logical outcome - complete and utter absorption into this cyclone of horror, of deconstruction...Dont be so haughty to believe that youre the master of your fate. Hashem, "yahwh" (although thats not how YHVH is pronounced) created this world as a mirror of the higher world. What does a mirror do? A mirror REFLECTS and INVERTS an image. Therefore, when this world is functioning in the mode of judgement, the name Elohim, which has the same gematria of hateva(nature), this happens because mankind in the majority is involved in evil. Because of this, G-d permits the world to conduct itself at random. The idea behidn this is to TEST mans moral resovle - to really see which ones will exercise faith and which ones will not. I cant fathom why he does this, but in his ineffable wisdom he has sublime reasons for it. Like i said, this world is inverted. Therefore, the next world, after death, after one leaves the body which arrests him to the physical, man is back in the domain of TRUTH. This world inverts truth, it actually inverts the laws of moral causation (karma/measure for measure). Therefore, if one were to have a MAJORITY good deeds in this world, he'll be repaid for his conduct and sacrifice in the world to come (his understanding - "Binah" which encompasses the world, will therefore be able to experience the level of atik yamin , the hidden pleasure within crown that cant fully be revealed when one is attached to a body - thus each positive life affirming experience he commited in his life will reveal its true nature to him - likewise for negative behavior, in this case bein pain). Any good he experiences in this world is considered 'interest'. Conversely, one who has a majority evil deeds is like a tree planted in a swamp, with one particular branch overlooking a beautfiul garden. Most of his deeds are evil; and because this world is in the mode of judgement, G-d actually PUNISHES this person by rewarding him in this world. Though, there is an aspect of mercy, because he doesnt kill the sinner outright, but allows them to recognize their folloy and make teshuva . No matter how far you think you are, you can ALWAYS return to your source of being.

Why you consider Yahweh as some tyranic creator G-d is beyond me. The torah is the literal blueprint of creation - incredible secrets about reality are condensed within its pages - every word an archetypal reality that gives rise to the physical reality we see.

Youre not as strong as you think you are.You havent seen hell; you may think you have because youve 'transcended' in your mind the very concept of suffering and evil. But whose allowed you to transcend it? G-d. You can at any moment recoil and be forced to experience the hell you believe youve mastered. Really, just like in this world someone can take you by force and subject your physical body to horrors - this is possible because in this world we are SUBJECT to other forces. But in the world to come, when you have a physical body and a world of duality to save you, G-d, the creator of all spirits, and truly the idea of Satan is only him in the garb as punisher, youre gonan be spiritually forced to see the things you did.

Your hell may be your current haven, but i am positive in the end that spark of goodness in you will return to its source, in G-d whereas this majority of you wil be burnt up and destroyed in the fires of Sheol (which means destruction). Its your choice - G-d lays it before all of us in the Torah. You have life and death, blessing and curse - choose life.

He really does want the best for all of us. We are masters of our fate in asmuch as he gives us the power of choice. I can at any moment arouse out of myself a desire to change. Its completely possible.

Theres no evil greater than laziness/torpor/apathy.

edit on 9-9-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)





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