Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by dontreally
Yes, the diacritical marks are what allow us to translate properly.
And what allow us to know that Molech was and is a derogatory insult to the god called Melek (King) by his people.
You may think your religion breeds people who are perfect, but nobody here is. That is a dangerous delusion to have, but one necessarily spawned by
You have to realize that I got my degrees in ancient Near Eastern Religions, and beyond that my "gnostic freemason tutors" taught me well. I'm not
failing to understand you. I'm just disagreeing with you.
Also, Hecate and Athena do not equal the same archetype.
Hecate = Hel = Ereshkigal.
She has nothing to do with Athena.
Judaism doesnt at all believe man is perfect. That is a completely unjewish idea. But unlik4e chirstianity and pagandom, Judaism believes man is born
with an inherent goodness. That he has it within himself to transform the negative nature within him - his 'animal' soul. Man cant and will never be
perfect; all G-d expects is for us to TRY, make an effort, to be as the army says "as best as you can be".
On the contrary, the pagan idea of apotheosis, of the transformation of man into GOD, that is an arrogant, haughty and presumptuous belief which
necessitates the concept of an inherent perfection already within the human condition. That evil and good, virtue and vice, all necessary parts within
the human personality - This is an emotionally driven decsion, not at all motivated by a reasonable understanding of the true human condition or G-ds
creation. For instance, we know through mysticism that the masculine within creation is the active (but reversed in hindu thought), and the feminine
is passive. We see this within everything; to the seed and potential given from man to a women which develops the seed. The seed contains everything
within it already. The sole job of the female is a passive one; to simply develop it according to the potential already existant within the seed. Same
with nature. G-d created it, nature is simply the manifestation. Men are public, women private, men intellectually focused, whereas a women, whose
head typically reaches the heart region of a man, is emotionally centered. This is the dynamic; the intellect must GOVERN the heart in the same way
that the head is above it. This doesnt mean that Judaism suppresses the emotions; on the contrary, it refines them. Paganism is alluded to in the
first conflict in torah - which would be the conflict throuhout the 6000 years of human history. Cain offered to G-d an offering of flax (which grows
on a single stock, with pods opposite each other) while Abel offered a sheep. The first offering alludes to Cains attitude towards the creator. He
doesnt expect to offer his animal soul up to G-d as Abel did. He instead intends to transcend the entire concept of service to G-d, and to live in
harmony with the evil/chaos and disorder within creation. Because G-d saw that he was PERSONALLY motivated, and sought to honor himself and his own
egoic desires, he rejected his offering. Whereas Abel, who symbolizes the entire Jewish people, offered to G-d in his humility a sheep (aries). He
offered his highest personal aspirations to G-d, and was willing to serve him in simplicity. G-d accepted his offerring and favored Abel because of
his display of humility. This led Cain (pagandom) to HATE Abel (Judaism), which spurred Cain (pagandom) to kill Abel. Because of this Cain was
banished from the presence of G-d and given his own area, line and area to rule over. Cain is a symbol for the pagan ideology, and his literal
ancestors are nobles and leaders throughout the history in the modern pagan world (and yes, interbreeding among elites is a real thing) . Through
history, they have repeatedly killed 'abel' who continues to regenerate himself. This is what the Ari says "Moshe was the reincarnation of Abel, and
Moshiach will be a reincarnation of Moshe". The pagans are ousted from G-ds presence because of this atttitude. Amongst the arrogant, the holy and him
cant abide together (because an arrogant person makes no room for that possibility).The pagans simply choose, because they like things the way they
are, to reject the premise of Torah and the Hebrew tradition, that the creator of the universe expects man to work on his lower animal nature, to
follow 7 basic ethical principles given to Noach (REST, the father of mankind) so that man can give HONOR to his creator as opposed to himself.
Paganism is intrinsically ABOUT rejection and denigration of the father, destroying him completely, and lauding and giving honor to the feminine (this
was recently hinted at in a very obvious way in Avatar; with EYWA being a transmutation of the tetragrammaton corresponding to the permutation of
Shevat/Aquarius). This is why society nowadays is so distorted. The natural function and role of the male has been supplanted by the female. you cant
turn on an american sitcom where this isnt blatantly apparent. The dad is a complete idiot and moron who needs his wife to put him in his place;
predictive programming. It because of shows like this that pagan overlords of society have virtually restructured and mutated the natural human
condition. Heres an important proverb " a Tree that attacks its roots is destined to wither". Just as Judaism continues to regenerate itself, so shall
the natural order the creator established return to its default, programmed state. Mankind can attempt all they like to change it; in the end, theyre
nothing more than puppets being manipulated by GAOTU, who determines human history as much as he controls the string, atom and the largest galaxies.
Everything is in his hands; though, despite that, and of course this idea is completely paradoxical, there is still Free Will,. Maybe to a pagan the
mutual coexistence between providence and free will is an irritating concept; because it means that even though theyre sinning, they cant attribute
fault to anyone but themselves; therefore they will be punished for their character faults; sins in thought, speech and action.
Also, i dont know why you think you were taught well by your gnostic tutors. That distrubs me that you think you could be instructed better in the
Jewish tradition by non Jews with an entirely different spirituality than by Jews themselves. Thats like me getting an opinion about Israel from a
palestinian; its a conflict of interest. If anything, study both opinions. Otherwise youre willingly following a distorted and fallacious belief which
would otherwise be challenged by a philosophy/spirituality which you could if you wanted to allow your self to be influenced by.
But alas, you seem pretty convinced, having a degree in 'oriental studies' - which only means that youve absorbed someone elses ideas about
mesopotamian culture/religion/spirituality. Having studied alot into this area, probably not as much as you, but ive done a fair bit of study myself,
i can definitely say that the information especially about Judaism is manipulated and often homogeneously clumped in with the other religions; as if
they are ideologically similar. This is especially apparent in comparitive mythology; like with Joseph Campbell.
Judaism is diametrically opposed to the spirituality and archetypal format described in his writings. I actually have read authentic Jewish sources.
I take offence and i find it quite alarming when CG Jung quotes the Talmud, Ramak or Rashi, or Isaac Luria and attempts like the dominican friars of
the middle ages to correlate Jewish symbols/allegoery with their underlying thesis. Its incredibly dishonest. Anyone who knows anything about Judaism
knows thats not how their wisdom is traditionally interpreted esoterically. Compared to the shoddy explanations given by these gnostic academics,
Kabbalah and Chassidut is deep, honest, sincere and about mans complete union with the creator, through loving, FEARING and developing a faithful
relationship with him, as a women is faithful to her husbdand. Which is why once again i reitterate my earlier point about paganism; that its
inherently feministic. They like a disobedient wife have rejected their spouse and like a transvestite pretends to be the male, the active,
determining principle. The torah is clear about the role of a wife relative to her husband. She is passive in all decision making. Therefore, mankind,
before their creator, who is in the role of being 'the femine', the receptive, is PASSIVE - which is the natural function of G-ds creation. This is
also why the 19th ammendment was so important in destroying the family and creating the corrosive feminism that we have today. A man and his wife
should form one unit; together they should arrive at a decision on who to vote for. But the elites challenged a womens natural susceptibility to
succumb to egotism. She was being told that she was inferior, subjugated and demeaned before her husband, when in truth the decision was usually an
agreement between the husband AND wife.
Heres a very apt anecdote from the book culture of terror - the collapse of america about John Adams and his feminist wife abigail
"Abigail Adams grated on her husband John in letters demanding full legal rights for women: “we are determined to instigate a rebellion” she
declared, echoing the women of Athens in Lysistrata. John Adams’ reply was only too apt: men’s legal privileges were essential, he wrote, “we
dare not exert our power [in the home] in its full latitude…in practice, you know, we are the subjects. We have only the name of masters. To give up
on this would subject us completely to the despotism of the petticoat.”
And yes, youre right about Hecate. The owl though is mostly associated with Athena, and Athena plays a much larger role in Greek metaphysics because
of her destined 'bursting through the head of zeus at the end of the aeon', as the legend goes. Athena is that supposed 'higher' wisdom liberated from
the laws of Zeus... Zeus here i suppose being analgous with the Jewish creator, although the comparison itself is so demeaning/incorrect. Zeus is
merely a single archetype, whereas the creator of the universe, YHVH is everything; the very root of this name is HaYaH "to be". He allows existence
to be. His very name contains the entire known universe, as the kabbalah explains. To compare Zeus/Deus/Dyeus - the proto indo-european pagan concept
of 'judgement' which is actually more analagous to the name Elohim, with YHVH is peurile. This though is apparently what they think ,which is why when
the Romans destroyed the temple they built a temple to Jupiter on it. And later on the muslims erected the dome of the rock to Allah/Elohim.
I also find it funny how Greek legend so often speaks of Torah.
For instance in Hesiod we learn that "Uranus imprisoned Gaia's youngest children in Tartarus, deep within Earth, where they caused pain to Gaia. She
shaped a great flint-bladed sickle and asked her sons to castrate Uranus. Only Cronus, youngest and most ambitious of the Titans, was willing: he
ambushed his father and castrated him, casting the severed testicles into the sea."
you can learn so much about paganism by reading their mythology; and its speaks directly to the Jewish conception, to the ancient conception, which
was held by Adam down to Noach and than finally to Abraham.
edit on 8-9-2010 by dontreally because: spelling/grammatical errors