Obama Birth Certificate; 'Document allegedly obtained in Kenya sent to every member of Congress'

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Please outline what steps Obama has undertaken to "seal" records that are not public information. Want my medical records? How much money do I need to spend to have HIPPA laws work?

Why dont birthers ever answer this question? It has been asked often enough, yet each time they ignore it, just like this time!

It is one of the few things that makes me wonder how many of these "birthers" actually take themselves seriously. I am pretty sure many of them are the same constitution loving people that prize their uniquely American freedom of privacy.

Originally posted by imitator
Because it doesn't show detailed information such as hospital and physician

Why do you assume everyone is born in a hospital? This is one of the things wrong with birthers, they have no concept of the real world!

Why should it show the hospital, it states he was born in Hawaii.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
But the vast majority of people are moderate in their views and open to logical arguments.

If you were open to logical arguments, you'd realize that there's NO WAY Obama could get to where he is if he didn't have proof of his birth IN the US. There's NO WAY. Remember all his opponents along the way. Hillary Clinton, for God's sake! You don't think she had the resources to knock him out of the running before the primaries even got started???

Right now the Republicans and the Tea Party express are making a mistake by trying to play to the popularity of the fringe right.

You are right on that.

Obama could trump the entire fringe right if he came out and decisively attacked these rumors.

Maybe he's waiting for the right political timing.

The politicians spend too much time pandering to the fringe elements because even the politicians believe what they see on the TV.

For Obama to do something about this WOULD be pandering to the fringe element.

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
w.citizen: this is a good post. It separates you from the adolescents and puts you in the thinkers' class.

BS. Half of that stuff has been debunked and there's no proof of the other half! "Thinker"! Ha!

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
I have posted obama sealed all:
Illinois State Bar Association Records
files from years as Illinois State Senator
medical records
passport
baptism records (this one is probably a red herring, since muslims don't get baptized)
adoption record
Columbia University records
Columbia thesis
Harvard law school records
Puna Hou school records
Occidental College records
Harvard Law review articles
articles from the Univ. of Chicago
Now, you may quote me from The Above list; and that is a fact.

Ah, a new birther! His medical records are listed in this thread. How can he "seal" his adoption records if he was never adopted. Hey, by your logic, we can demand he release his prison records, too! And don't forget his kindergarten refrigerator drawings! I'm sure there's something "hidden" there, too.

Sometimes you guys crack me up! Really!

reply to post by dereks


This is why the form that he has provided is insufficient to verify he is a "natural born citizen." The form he has provided could have been obtained if he was born at a Hospital in HI, a home in HI, or a home in Kenya. It is insufficient as evidence without corroboration. The corroboration hasn't been provided. Why?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

If you were open to logical arguments, you'd realize that there's NO WAY Obama could get to where he is if he didn't have proof of his birth IN the US. There's NO WAY. Remember all his opponents along the way. Hillary Clinton, for God's sake! You don't think she had the resources to knock him out of the running before the primaries even got started???

I said that very thing in a much earlier post in this thread. I do think it would have been exposed very early on. To think that there is any reason Hillary would not have exposed it goes into very deep and unlikely conspiracy theories.

Still, why not just provide the long form, or at least provide corroboration for the short form, or at the very, very least provide an explanation for why he has the short form instead of the long form?

reply to post by getreadyalready


Jeeez.
You guys need glasses!
It says, plain as day, the island and county of birth!
I believe both are Hawaii, no?

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by imitator
Because it doesn't show detailed information such as hospital and physician

Why do you assume everyone is born in a hospital? This is one of the things wrong with birthers, they have no concept of the real world!

Why should it show the hospital, it states he was born in Hawaii.

That is the thing, it's possible the mother claimed him being born here 4 days later, when he may have been born in Kenya.

I'm no birther... just curious with this new information...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dereks

 

This is why the form that he has provided is insufficient to verify he is a "natural born citizen." The form he has provided could have been obtained if he was born at a Hospital in HI, a home in HI, or a home in Kenya. It is insufficient as evidence without corroboration. The corroboration hasn't been provided. Why?

How would he obtain a birth certificate that states he was born in Hawaii if he was born in Kenya? Please use facts. I always thought facts might take this conversation in an interesting twist but not so far.

reply to post by imitator


That is the thing, it's possible the mother claimed him being born here 4 days later, when he may have been born in Kenya.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He MAY have been born on Mars!
But we have no reason to believe so do we?
And we also have no reason to believe he was born in Kenya, do we?
Fakes not allowed!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I said that very thing in a much earlier post in this thread. I do think it would have been exposed very early on. To think that there is any reason Hillary would not have exposed it goes into very deep and unlikely conspiracy theories.

1Still, why not just provide the long form, 2or at least provide corroboration for the short form, 3or at the very, very least provide an explanation for why he has the short form instead of the long form?

Then he has either been covering this up the whole time and should be better at it by now or there would be something more than one twisted and edited version of an AP story, wouldn't there?

1-Hawaii no longer issues a long form. It is just that simple.
2-What would be corroboration for the short form that would satisfy everyone?
3-Because there is no long form to show you. That is a straw man. A long form and short form are both certificates that both get their information and certify the existence of the original birth REGISTRATION.

Originally posted by imitator

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by imitator
Because it doesn't show detailed information such as hospital and physician

Why do you assume everyone is born in a hospital? This is one of the things wrong with birthers, they have no concept of the real world!

Why should it show the hospital, it states he was born in Hawaii.

That is the thing, it's possible the mother claimed him being born here 4 days later, when he may have been born in Kenya.

I'm no birther... just curious with this new information...

edit on 14-9-2010 by imitator because: (no reason given)

What leads you to believe that it would be that simple to get them to put down Hawaii as your place of birth just because someone said so?

reply to post by evil incarnate


Very, very simply.

Hypothetically:
An American woman is living over seas with a Kenyan man. They have a child. Shortly after the birth of the child they move to Hawaii. After being in Hawaii for a short time, she begins to realize that she will need a birth certificate to get her child into school and doctors, etc., etc. She isn't intentionally trying to be fraudulent, it just wasn't an issue until she got to Hawaii. So she visits the SS office. They give her a list of what she needs to get the "Certification of Live Birth." Not a "Birth Certificate" mind you, just a "Certification." This is the form they use for babies not born in a hospital. She goes about the business of collecting the forms and signatures and brings it back and VOILA! You have exactly the form that we see online, and it did not require a birth in the country or state to get it.

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Nobody would swear a fake document into evidence to a law suit that contained biometric (footprint) information. The document is real.

Because it contains an unexamined footprint?



I'm not laughing at the fact that this is so obviously an argument devoid of logic, but at a system that is such a mess, people submit all sorts of nonsense into evidence to tie up the court system, yet there are some out there with the blindingly naive belief that no one would submit dubious documents into a court of law.

Okay so here's the deal.

- Berg V. Obama

Among the mountain of nonsense submitted to the court as evidence by Phillip Berg was an alleged internet Canadian birth certificate for Obama...that was signed by signed by "Dudley DoRight" and "John F. Kennedy":

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/02d24f3b1151.jpg[/atsimg]

- Keyes v. Obama

Orly Taitz submits to the court a photo of a birth certificate that she alleged belonged to Obama.
Not even a real hardcopy mind you.



Just a photo.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1cbe76203c79.jpg[/atsimg]

TO DATE: All alleged Obama birth certificates submitted to the court to prove Obama is ineligible for office have All Been Fakes.

With such a record coming from the Birther movement, chances are high this is too.

You do you know that fraudulent evidence has been submitted to the American court system for ages?

It's cost people a majority of their lives, if not all of it.
Here's a classic case:

The Law: A Classic Case Of False Evidence

Last week the Supreme Court unanimously reversed Miller's conviction because the prosecution had used false evidence with an almost incredible disregard for U.S. standards of fair trial.

Time online

All other Obama birth documents are frauds but this one is real because of an unexamined foot print and the fact that no one, at least anyone that wasn't a con-man, nutty, or an outright fool would submit a document they paid $5000 dollars for to an anonymous source into the court as evidence?

Hello??

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b5ae1997df63.jpg[/atsimg]

Welcome to America.
Clearly you haven't to a look around at the madness.

- Lee

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

Very, very simply.

Hypothetically:

5 guesses where you lost me.

Hypothetically he could be a cyborg or a reptillian. Hypothetically birthers could have one single valid fact to play with. Hypothetically, I might be god myself. Hypothetically, Obama could be a Kenyan plant orchestrated by Bill Gates in order to obtain untapped gold and silica. Hypotheticals are interesting to play with but I am pretty sure I was looking for facts.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by getreadyalready
But the vast majority of people are moderate in their views and open to logical arguments.

If you were open to logical arguments, you'd realize that there's NO WAY Obama could get to where he is if he didn't have proof of his birth IN the US. There's NO WAY. Remember all his opponents along the way. Hillary Clinton, for God's sake! You don't think she had the resources to knock him out of the running before the primaries even got started???

Right now the Republicans and the Tea Party express are making a mistake by trying to play to the popularity of the fringe right.

You are right on that.

Obama could trump the entire fringe right if he came out and decisively attacked these rumors.

Maybe he's waiting for the right political timing.

The politicians spend too much time pandering to the fringe elements because even the politicians believe what they see on the TV.

For Obama to do something about this WOULD be pandering to the fringe element.

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
w.citizen: this is a good post. It separates you from the adolescents and puts you in the thinkers' class.

BS. Half of that stuff has been debunked and there's no proof of the other half!

"Thinker"! Ha!

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
I have posted obama sealed all:
Illinois State Bar Association Records
files from years as Illinois State Senator
medical records
passport
baptism records (this one is probably a red herring, since muslims don't get baptized)
adoption record
Columbia University records
Columbia thesis
Harvard law school records
Puna Hou school records
Occidental College records
Harvard Law review articles
articles from the Univ. of Chicago
Now, you may quote me from The Above list; and that is a fact.

Ah, a new birther! His medical records are listed in this thread. How can he "seal" his adoption records if he was never adopted. Hey, by your logic, we can demand he release his prison records, too! And don't forget his kindergarten refrigerator drawings! I'm sure there's something "hidden" there, too.

Sometimes you guys crack me up! Really!

Heretic, are you seriously admitting on ats that you do not know that obama was adopted by
his stepfather? Yes, it was blind people like you that put this impostor
in Washington, DC. Perhaps, your eyes will be opened.

Oh, yeah, I'm a new birther. I was born again almost 30 years ago, and I thank The Lord for it.

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
Heretic, are you seriously admitting on ats that you do not know that obama was adopted by
his stepfather? Yes, it was blind people like you that put this impostor
in Washington, DC. Perhaps, your eyes will be opened.

Oh, yeah, I'm a new birther. I was born again almost 30 years ago, and I thank The Lord for it.

What and who do I have to pay to keep my private records private? Apparently this is a rather real concern.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Hypothetically:
An American woman is living over seas with a Kenyan man. They have a child. Shortly after the birth of the child they move to Hawaii. After being in Hawaii for a short time, she begins to realize that she will need a birth certificate to get her child into school and doctors, etc., etc. She isn't intentionally trying to be fraudulent, it just wasn't an issue until she got to Hawaii. So she visits the SS office. They give her a list of what she needs to get the "Certification of Live Birth." Not a "Birth Certificate" mind you, just a "Certification." This is the form they use for babies not born in a hospital. She goes about the business of collecting the forms and signatures and brings it back and VOILA! You have exactly the form that we see online, and it did not require a birth in the country or state to get it.

That is what I think happened, very possible.... However, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth. Right? So what's the big deal if he was born in Kenya? He's still a U.S. citizen right?

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by lee anoma

 

OK, here goes.

Shoot.

It is a fact that it is that eligibility for the US Presidential candidacy nomination must comply with the Constitution.

True.
He was of course deemed eligible.
This logical approach you have taken disproves the fact that he is secretly a Kenyan citizen.
There's still hope though, that he is secretly the son of Malcolm X and thus should be feared.

It is a fact that it is very important to know about who Obama is, what his past is, and whether he has other allegiances

That is not a fact, but it is wise when choosing to vote for a representative of you and your Country.

It is a fact that Tim Adams, a former Hawaii Elections Clerk has stated he is willing to testify under oath that Obama was "definitely" not born in Hawaii and has no birth certificate from any hospital in the Aloha State.
www.wnd.com...

It is a fact that he "said it".
What he said however has not been "proven" to be a fact.

Did you watch my video where he says people with an agenda have taken parts of what he says out of context, and that he has concluded that Obama IS an American citizen?

He also said he never had access to Obamas' records and was merely told this and Birthers are racists.

Is he right about that, too?

It is a fact that former US Attorney, Andrew McCarthy, anti-terroist Attorney, who investigated the 1998, US Embassy bombing in Nairobi, Kenya, has charged that Obama was involved in 'border line criminal activity' in Kenya as a Senator, and that he campaigned for a pro-communist candidate who was running against a pro-American, anti-terrorism candidate.

Again, it is a fact that he has claimed Obama was involved, it is not a proven fact that he was.
You can accuse Obama of being the 20th hijacker and take it to court, it doesn't prove a thing.

He is no longer an "anti-terror attorney" by the way so you need to put "former" somewhere in there.

Right now he's just a guy making claims.

It is a fact that Obama has not produced evidence that his study was supported by student loans, and that it has been reported that Khalid Al-Mansour, an advisor to Saudi prince Al-Walid bin Talah, told Manhattan Borough president, Percy Sutton, that he was raising money for Obama’s Harvard tuition.

Again, it is a fact that this is a rumor.
Yes.

It is a fact that Obama has spent over $1.4 million to block access to all his school, college and university records, likewise for the records of his parents and grandparents.

Prove it.

There is not ONE shred of evidence that he did this.
Also, who do you pay to block access to your personal records?

They are personal. He doesn't have to block them, just not share them.

It is a fact that the US knows less about Obama's past than is the case for any other President.

No it isn't.
By what have you determined such a thing?

There are numerous articles regarding his life and upbringing.
Even an autobiography.

It is a fact that Obama promised 'the most transparent Administration', yet has proved himself and his Administration to be the least transparent about many vitally important issues, including his own background.

Transparency in regards to his "administration".
I don't get how people miss this point.

He didn't promise you access to the personal information of his entire administration.
You didn't have that with the last administration.

Also he passed an Executive Order REVOKING Bushs' previous order to permanently seal the records of the White House.

He gave you back the access Bush tried to permanently remove.
Still not good enough?

It is a fact that many reputable people doubt the authenticity of the BC, and believe it has been 'doctored'.

Again, you stating that it is a fact that people have an opinion.
This is obvious and isn't evidence of anything.

The U.S. Congress and the State of Hawaii have all accepted Obamas' information as vaild.
It is a fact that you can believe otherwise, though.

It is a fact that at 49 lawsuits have been filed by American citizens...

Okay I am going to stop responding to these individually.
Clearly you missed the point of what I was saying.

You are not providing evidential facts the prove Obama is hiding his citizenship as a Kenyan, just facts that people have made unsubstantiated claims or outright lies.

We know this.

Still, there is no evidence that Obama is a secret Kenyan just a long list of claims, rumors and speculaition.

It's a fact people have claimed George Bush is a Reptilian.
It is not a fact that he is.

Get me?

Originally posted by Freedom of Thought
w.citizen: this is a good post. It separates you from the adolescents and puts you in the thinkers' class.

- Lee

Time to regroup already? The birther argument must be getting weak because it never used to have to go back to the corner this often or for this long before. After a little while the questions they cannot answer will grow cold and a new thread will pop up with the same posters making the same unbacked claims, starting as if this conversation never happened. Imitator, please pay close attention to how this game is played before you get sucked into either side.

I'll repat myself, state the obvious!
I think this is the crux of the birther mindest.
They hate Obama and his politics.
They are sure there is some reason he's not the legally elected President.
They cling to a ridiculous straw that he will be removed from office somehow: finding nothing, they obess with the "birther" issue.
Pathetic.
It's nearly two years into his administration. Birthers have provided ZERO evidence of wrongdoing.
It's over guys! Obama won. If you don't like him think of 2012, not some fictional stupid "conspiracy"!