Obama Birth Certificate; 'Document allegedly obtained in Kenya sent to every member of Congress'

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't think anybody is claiming it is a forgery. We are only claiming that it is simple to get without actually being born in the state.

Plenty of people have claimed it to be a forgery.
They did so the day it came out.

Also it is not simple to get unless it belongs to you, and it will still accurately state where you were born. It says he was born in Hawaii, if he wasn't it would say so.

This is backed up by the Hawaiian officials.

Again, comparing it to a copy of a Hawaiian birth certificate from 1961 to disprove its validity is erroneous at best or simply due to misinformation.

He won't ever get a copy of a birth certificate that looks like that now.
No one will. They no longer provide that format.

Unless he still has his 49 year old copy, he has the only computer generated proof they will give him

I'm not getting into the semantics of calling it a Certificate of Live Birth as opposed to a Birth Certificate when the State of Hawaii says they are the same thing.

What exactly is an invalid birth certificate anyway?
How did he get one?

Birthers have no argument, just speculation and ignorance of the reality that Vital Records in the State of Hawaii have said it is valid.

- Lee

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I haven't been reading all the posts arguing about the differences between a certificate vs certification, but here is the scoop.

Thanks BH, I'm glad to see someone knows the difference!

I think the difference has been explained but that helps for all the people posting who don't seem to know the difference.

Oh great!
So you finally got that:

When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances [2]. Nearly all states in the U.S. issue short forms certifications, on both state and local levels [8].

No longer need the long-form, then!
Not sure now what the fuss was all about.

All the information is here:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee30ea0f6800.jpg[/atsimg]

Guess that's done then.

- Lee

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Can you respond to these, please?

Post 1

Please show something that backs up this statement.

OK is Okubo's word good enough for you?

the.honoluluadvertiser.com...

Okubo said, "If someone from Obama's campaign gave us permission in person and presented some kind of verification that he or she was Obama's designee, we could release the vital record."

How's that? That looks like the answer to post 3 too because if there's a difference in what you're asking you'll have to clarify it.

Post 2

I meant specific place of birth.
Kapiolani medical center?
Queen's medical center?
Has this guy been debunked? I'm not saying I believe him but if Obama would just produce the certificate of live birth it would put an end to his lies if that's what they are.

Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here

At the time, there were conflicting reports that Obama had been born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, as well as the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children across town. So Adams says his office checked with both facilities. "They told us, 'We don't have a birth certificate for him,'" he said. "They told my supervisor, either by phone or by e-mail, neither one has a document that a doctor signed off on saying they were present at this man's birth."

To date, no Hawaiian hospital has provided documented confirmation that Obama was born at its facility.

That's what I meant by location.

Your a good debater and you seem to understand the issues, but your question about whether or not a presidential candidate could get access to his own vital records on file with Hawaii surprised me, I wouldn't have thought that would even be a question.

Now whether or not the average person, requesting a copy of their original vital records would have any success or not in Hawaii, I don't know. But I don't have any doubt a presidential candidate could get them and Okubo confirms it.

Regarding the privacy issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether the president is expected to be a little bit more forthcoming with records than the average person is (or than your husband is with his thoughts). That issue is just a matter of opinion and ours differs which is OK, yours is just as valid as mine even if you don't agree with me.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Obama campaigned on transparency,

That doesn't mean he needs to satisfy everybody over transparency. The birthers are the result of a dissatisfied voter fringe who hold all kinds of suspicions about the president, no amount of transparency will change that.

so I don't see why he would be reluctant

I disagree. Theres this notion that the president is 'hiding' his birthcertificate or is 'reluctant' to show it. This kind of highhorse mentality has it that this president is actually paying attention to the demands of birthers which is not so. As far as he and the majority of the country is concerned, he won the elections, his eligibility was delt with during the elections 2years and thats that. There is a segment of the population including yourself that is still whining 2 years on and its just segment people do not care to know about. This is a conspiracy forum so obvious the whining will be paid to.

but people have a right to ask to see it.

No, people do not have a right to see any further evidence. Obamas eligibility has been settled more so than previous presidents and he should not have to go further out of his way to prove to voters who will never be satisfied so long as he remains president. The racists, the bush apologists, the conspiracy theorists. They and you will never be satisfied so long as this president remains. That is just the fact.

If Obama was born at home - - - is there any law that a hospital had to sign off on it?

Ya know - - - some people still do it the old fashion way - - at home. Don't ya then just register the birth?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
OK is Okubo's word good enough for you?

the.honoluluadvertiser.com...

Okubo said, "If someone from Obama's campaign gave us permission in person and presented some kind of verification that he or she was Obama's designee, we could release the vital record."

So, it sounds like it's possible that they would give Obama a long form, although they don't specify that, they just call it "vital record".

And yes, Okubo's word is good enough for me.

I meant specific place of birth.
Kapiolani medical center?
Queen's medical center?

Which hospital he was born in is irrelevant to his eligibility. The town (Honolulu) is what matters. If he was born outside of Hawaii, his certification would reflect that.

If you're suggesting that the CoLB online is fake, that's one thing, but you have been saying that you're not making that claim. If that's true, then you have your information. He was born in Honolulu. Because as my "post #3" shows, had he been born in Bali, the CoLB would say Bali. The CoLB says Honolulu.

Are you suggesting the CoLB is fake?

Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here

That link doesn't work, but I am familiar with the story. Hospitals don't store birth certificates, the Health Department does. So it's not surprising that neither hospital had his certificate.

reply to post by lee anoma

Also it is not simple to get unless it belongs to you, and it will still accurately state where you were born. It says he was born in Hawaii, if he wasn't it would say so.

This is backed up by the Hawaiian officials.

It is a "Certification of Live Birth." I am a notary public. I know plenty of mid-wives. If we had some friends doing mission work in the Congo and they had a baby while there, and they came back and wanted a Hawaiian Birth Certificate. The midwife could draw up the paperwork, I could notarize it, the parents could take it in and voila! Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth.

That is why it is not enough to be considered alone. It requires further validation.

I'm not saying this is a 46 year conspiracy. Perhaps they just needed a certificate to enroll him in school. Perhaps he was really born in Hawaii. I don't know. But I do know that the Certification, all by itself is not sufficient evidence of his "natural born" status.

reply to post by getreadyalready


But I do know that the Certification, all by itself is not sufficient evidence of his "natural born" status.
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Except for the Federal elections Commision and the Congress of the United States!
Who put the birthers in charge? Which part of The Constitution gives citizens the say so?
Which Constitutional requirement was not met?
Get a life!

Check this out: Andy Martin, the guy who is widely credited for starting the Obama eligibility rumor is running for Republican Senator of Illinois this year!

Andy Martin for Senate - 2010

Martin "referred to a federal bankruptcy judge as a 'crooked, slimy Jew, who has a history of lying and thieving common to members of his race,'" and expressed "understand[ing] for how the Holocaust took place." Several news articles have reported that Martin's Selective Service file described him as having a "moderately-severe character defect manifested by well documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character."

Media Matters

In a March 28 column for NewsMax.com titled "Free Obama's White Grandmother," "Internet journalist" Andy Martin wrote that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), whom he called "one of the most racist politicians in America today," has "locked the grandmother who actually raised him away in a closet,"

The Nation,[1] The Washington Post,[2] and The New York Times[3] have identified him as the primary source of false rumors that US President-elect Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim. In a later interview with CNN, Martin explicitly abandoned his view that Obama is a Muslim, but now asserts Obama's real father is not Barack Obama Sr., but is Frank Marshall Davis, an African American journalist of the 1950s.

Source

I bet old, fat, disgusting Andy is sitting back smiling from ear to ear at how many people he was able to manipulate by his false and outrageous rumors... What a slime. And what a shame...

reply to post by getreadyalready


... and the child would still be a natural born citizen, because one of his parents was an american citizen. And if the midwife made up fake paperwork, the Colb would say Honolulu, as would the long form.

... and what on earth would they need to notarize it for???

Originally posted by getreadyalready
But I do know that the Certification, all by itself is not sufficient evidence of his "natural born" status.

Please post proof of this statement.

The Certification states that he was born in Honolulu to a US citizen. That's a natural-born citizen right there.

reply to post by OldDragger


Have you read any of my other posts?

I don't want to be in charge. I want to hear, from the Department of State, that the proper verification of the supplied paperwork was sufficient to establish Barack Obama as a "natural born citizen." The paperwork and verification is on file per standard operating procedure, and will be declassified at a later date and displayed in Obama's presidential library as appropriate.

That is all I want. I want the appropriate people to make the appropriate clarification and lay their own arses on the line.

I don't want a short form on the internet. I don't care what the Governor of Hawaii's opinion is. I don't care what Republicans or Democrats think.

I want our President's employer to say that they did their job and they are willing to prove it at some point in the future, just like my employer did when they hired me.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


No it isn't. Not without further verification. The "certification" can be obtained in a variety of ways that are easily manipulated. As I said before. Even today, it would be fairly easy to be born out of the country and still obtain an Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth. The defunct link from their site said it requires further verification. Even for my "Sensitive" position with the State it requires a background check to verify my certified copy of my birth certificate.

I want to know that the proper protocol was followed to verify this certificate was done, and is on file, and will be made public at some point.

How can that be such a controversial request?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Okubo said, "If someone from Obama's campaign gave us permission in person and presented some kind of verification that he or she was Obama's designee, we could release the vital record."

So, it sounds like it's possible that they would give Obama a long form, although they don't specify that, they just call it "vital record".

yes, if they have it. "Vital record" is the phrase used by Fukino in the statement "I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen." So one of the questions I asked earlier that nobody answered is, what is Fukino referring to when she says "vital records"? If she means they have a long form certificate of live birth from a hospital, then they would provide that. If they have something else (I don't know what that would be, some kind of documentation from a midwife perhaps?) then they could provide that. If he was born in the presence of a midwife instead of a hospital I'm not sure what the vital records would look like, as the examples I've seen are from hospitals.

Are you suggesting the CoLB is fake?

Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here
That link doesn't work, but I am familiar with the story.

Sorry, I fixed the link. I think they have something on file (Perhaps a long form certificate of live birth?) and the CoLB is produced from that, but I don't know exactly what they have on file and am not in a position to assess it without seeing it. Tim Adams is suggesting Obama wasn't born at Kapiolani or Queens, the two places we've heard might be possible birthplaces for Obama, I would like to see him proven wrong and see these questions put to rest. Adams did work in the elections office as a senior elections clerk so that much seems to be true at least but I don't know about the rest, I'd like to think he's lying so that's why I asked if anyone can debunk him.

"His title was senior elections clerk in 2008," said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the city and county of Honolulu.

Takahashi also confirmed Adams' time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.

I'm skeptical of anything anybody says without proof, including Adams. But it wouldn't be that hard for Obama to settle this by releasing the vital records that Okubo and Fukino are talking about, whatever they are.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Jesus, that is the guy that started all of this?
He sounds like a loony, angry, bigot that spins lies for fun.

Wouldn't be surprised if the Birthers and Tea Party rally behind him, either.

- Lee

Originally posted by getreadyalready
No it isn't. Not without further verification. .

OK, I hear what you are saying, but I'm asking for proof, not just your opinion.

Even today, it would be fairly easy to be born out of the country and still obtain an Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth.

It would not be "fairly easy". They have to have documentation as proof of an in-state birth to put that information on the Certification.

Even for my "Sensitive" position with the State it requires a background check to verify my certified copy of my birth certificate.

Are you seriously suggesting that Obama, a State Senator, Senator and then the President, has NOT had a "background check" performed on him before?

I want to know that the proper protocol was followed to verify this certificate was done, and is on file, and will be made public at some point.

Well, then I think you should get busy doing the necessary research to get the answers to your questions. I'm fairly certain you're not going to get the answers to your specific questions on ATS or even on the Internet. That's going to take some real investigative work.

How can that be such a controversial request?

I don't think it's a controversial request at all. I think it's a perfectly reasonable request. But it's going to take some work on your part to get the answers. You can't just sit at your computer and expect this information to come knocking at your door. I suggest contacting someone in Washington DC... perhaps a Congressman that's sympathetic to your cause.

Originally posted by OldDragger
Except for the Federal elections Commision and the Congress of the United States!
Which Constitutional requirement was not met?

the feds and congress are notorious for violating the Constitution
..................................

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Well, then I think you should get busy doing the necessary research to get the answers to your questions. I'm fairly certain you're not going to get the answers to your specific questions on ATS or even on the Internet. That's going to take some real investigative work.

You are probably right, but there are a couple of hurdles.

1. Surely I am not going to uncover stuff that Beck and Hillary and McCain haven't already failed to uncover. OR, maybe they uncovered some boring facts and didn't make the public? That would be almost treasonous on the parts of all of those news outlets and talking heads if they made the inquiries and got the satisfactory answers, and then continued beating the same dead horse knowing that the truth was boring.

2. I work for the State Government. If I started doing a lot of research into the background of Obama, it might come back to bite me. I was kind of hoping that somebody else would produce a link or a story or a statement where the DOS had already made this assertion. It is a little bit of lazy, and a little bit of paranoia stopping me from doing the research myself.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here

At the time, there were conflicting reports that Obama had been born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, as well as the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children across town. So Adams says his office checked with both facilities. "They told us, 'We don't have a birth certificate for him,'" he said. "They told my supervisor, either by phone or by e-mail, neither one has a document that a doctor signed off on saying they were present at this man's birth."

Aside from the fact that Tim Adams is incorrect about what a "Certification of Live Birth" is, this would be the same guy that:

1 - Said Birthers are doing all of this because they are racist.

2 - Said he concluded that since Obama has a COLB from Hawaii he is an eligible and vetted U.S. citizen.

3 - Said he never claimed to have access to birth records

4 - Said people are using fear to rile up a group that feels marginalized

5 - Said they took half of what he said and ran with it without looking at his conclusions



You sure you want to use him as a factual source?

He says this whole thing is a joke perpetrated by fear-mongers and the Right.

- Lee

GOOD!
get rid of this lying A-hole
The only good republican/democrat is a dead one
except Ron Paul, he's my hero.