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Petraeus: Burning Quran Endangers Troops

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posted on Sep, 9 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 




Excellent! I wish I could give multiple stars for that reply! Oh, and the content of it was good as well.

Seriously though, thanks for doing that background and verifying my suspicions.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 




Excellent! I wish I could give multiple stars for that reply! Oh, and the content of it was good as well.

Seriously though, thanks for doing that background and verifying my suspicions.


Oh that reminds me, one more thing if you don't mind Sir, something that had been bothering me quite a bit about all this too. I thought here is a many that is not shy, no Sir, not many people would be so bold as this Sir, causing a media controversy around the world, just to self promote his cause and himself.

That got me thinking you know publicity, Mrs. Columbo she loves to read those celebrity tabloid things, you know the kind you get at the Check Out Stands, at the Super Market, and the Fashion Magazines too of course, oh Sir does she love to read the Fashion Magazines. I honestly cringe every time she picks one up, what you know Sir on my salary, even being a detective they don't pay us very much money. She especially loves to read the European Magazines, she is always telling me, the trends there will be the trends here six months later.

She likes to sew you see Sir, and make the same thing she sees in the European Magazines before they get here.

So I was mentioning to her, that I had met you, like I said she has a thing for famous people, she got a real kick out of that, and she said she had just read about you Sir in a German magazine!

I thought wow you must be pretty famous sir, pretty famous indeed to be in a German magazine and that's when she told me, told me Sir, that you had been in Germany, actually that you had a Church in Germany! I said really Terry Jones had a Church in Germany and then she showed me Sir, she showed me this.

Terry Jones Accused of 'Spiritual Abuse' at Cologne Church




US fundamentalist pastor Terry Jones, who wants to burn copies of the Koran on Sept. 11, ran a church in the western German city of Cologne until last year when members of the congregation expelled him. Former members have spoken of his hate-filled sermons and insistence on "blind obedience."


www.spiegel.de...

You see Sir what had been bothering me is a man, well a man like you being so bold and all, it didn't seem like you were new to this kind of thing, that you must have had some kind of experience at it.

Turns out you did Sir! Seems you weren't just running a church over there, but a cult, built up around you, like another Mr. Jones of the clothe that didn't care if his followers died, Jim Jones.

Seems that many of your former congregants over in Germany lost all their money to you, were encouraged to beat their children with Rods Sir? That many are still in psychological counseling still to this day because of the control you exerted over them Sir!

It took them a while to realize what you were doing, how you were defrauding them and manipulating by playing to their worst fears and notions of God Sir, but eventually they realized, and they kicked you out of yoru own Church and then Germany itself they didn't want you, they didn't want you there Sir.

I don't think we want you here either Sir really I don't. That might seem harsh Sir, but you were denied a burn permit by the Fire Marshall Sir, everyone from Presidents to Generals begged you not to do this Sir. See I know why you came to America Sir, to abuse our freedoms, our freedoms of speech our freedoms of religion. Germany Sir, they have strict hate laws Sir, they know where that kind of hate leads Sir.

It leads to people burning books, and persecuting entire religions. They found that out there Sir, in Germany, where your flock rejected you, and had you expelled from the Country. They found that out from a guy named Adolf Hitler Sir.

They saw you for what you really are Sir. Sir so do I.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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Jones said that the imam who said he would move his mosque lied to him so now he's rethinking the book burning. Why is this such a big deal? I think I'm going to burn one now just so it's not so anti-climactic !

Why is the entire world so focused on this? It's just a book people !



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
Jones said that the imam who said he would move his mosque lied to him so now he's rethinking the book burning. Why is this such a big deal? I think I'm going to burn one now just so it's not so anti-climactic !

Why is the entire world so focused on this? It's just a book people !


I agree with you jfj123. I also think this is such a big deal because of the media. One more thing, follow the money. Our big monster banks are, lol.

Thanks,
sl

edit to clarify what I agree with you on is "It's just a book people"


edit on 10-9-2010 by sweetliberty because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
Jones said that the imam who said he would move his mosque lied to him so now he's rethinking the book burning. Why is this such a big deal? I think I'm going to burn one now just so it's not so anti-climactic !

Why is the entire world so focused on this? It's just a book people !


I honestly think it is not just skillful media manipulation but Silent Sound Spread Spectrum subliminal messaging in the electronic media that is causing so many people to react emotionally to this issue.

It sure is a distraction to some much more serious issues, and Jones himself according to his former Congregation in Germany which expelled him from his own Church for lying to them and manipulating them, is most certainly fabricating his claim that Rauf had agreed to move his Community Center based on Jones extortion of move your center or I will burn Qurans.

That is petty extortion and shame on Americans who would scream to high heaven if the shoe were on the other foot, and someone was attempting to extort a non-Muslim group into not building or moving a facility by using the same tactics.

The Der Spiegel Article I linked in my previous posts illustrates that Jones is a religious con man whose own flock turned against him and expelled him from his own church.

People should read it, and understand the real nature of the man driving this issue.

This is not about free speech, it's about whether America wants to be seen as a nation of bigots and intollerant of religious freedoms.

It doesn't matter what the rest of the world is doing, just what we as Americans really stand for.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by sweetliberty

Originally posted by jfj123
Jones said that the imam who said he would move his mosque lied to him so now he's rethinking the book burning. Why is this such a big deal? I think I'm going to burn one now just so it's not so anti-climactic !

Why is the entire world so focused on this? It's just a book people !


I agree with you jfj123. I also think this is such a big deal because of the media. One more thing, follow the money. Our big monster banks are, lol.

Thanks,
sl

edit to clarify what I agree with you on is "It's just a book people"


edit on 10-9-2010 by sweetliberty because: (no reason given)



I feel I should elaborate on "it's just a book people".
What is in someone's heart is the what is most important. At first it used to bother me when the Bible or flag was disgraced but it didn't take me long to get past those actions of others.
Thankfully we have an abundance of Qurans and other Bibles out there to purchase or to give to others to learn from and to enjoy. So with that in mind, and with what is in one's heart and mind, that is why in this instance I say it's just a book.
What a book represents is what we fight for if we have to

Thank you,
sl



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

Has anyone considered what kind of threats are engendered when Muslims attack Christians with impunity, and without exposure?

This is from 2007, not a recent outburst, but a simmering dig at Christians that has largely gone unnoticed and continues.

Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a Catholic school and convent in Gaza.. Crosses were broken, a statue of Jesus was damaged, and prayer books were burned.
Gunmen used the roof of the school during the fighting, and the convent was "desecrated," according to the community’s pastor.
Father Musalam additionally told The Jerusalem Post that the Muslim gunmen used rocket-propeled grenades (RPGs) to blow through the doors of the church and school, before burning Bibles and destroying every cross they could get their hands on.

www.associatedcontent.com...



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but Christ let himself be crucified.

First he let himself be ridiculed, bullied, and beaten to a pulp, then they nailed him to a cross until he was dead.

I appreciate the Christian teachings of love and tolerance, but I personally don't want to see this country follow Christ on that path.

He had the power to rise again, but I don't think America - as a whole - does - should that ever happen.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by hadriana
reply to post by jdub297
 


I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but Christ let himself be crucified.

First he let himself be ridiculed, bullied, and beaten to a pulp, then they nailed him to a cross until he was dead.

I appreciate the Christian teachings of love and tolerance, but I personally don't want to see this country follow Christ on that path.

He had the power to rise again, but I don't think America - as a whole - does - should that ever happen.


With all due respect, what does all of this have to do with burning a prayer book of religion XYZ?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by notsoperfect
If Islam is such a peaceful religion, why there is no Moslems picketing and rioting in the street condemning the killings by their own?


With all due respect, what does all of this have to do with burning a prayer book of religion XYZ?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The Iranian President by the way doesn't hate Jews he hates Zionist politics. I have gotten drunk with Muslim friends, taken Muslim friends to Caesars Palace (of course of course) in Atlantic City, and Las Vegas, I have even known some to use marijuana and coc aine.


I think that proclamation is completely pointless in the context of this thread or any thread, for that matter.

I'm against burning the Qur'an for many reasons, but seeing Muslims drinking, doping and committing carnal sin is not one of them. Yes, I have visited Middle East and Central Asia.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


When a Nation puts its Troops in " Harms Way " , some get killed . Nothing New here . With or Without that Qur'an Burning Protest , we as a Nation still have Many enemies that Still want to Destroy us no matter if we try to Appease them or not .


edit on 10-9-2010 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)




edit on 10-9-2010 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem


With all due respect, what does all of this have to do with burning a prayer book of religion XYZ?


People just keep saying "This man is not a christian, Christ wouldn't DO this"

WWJD
Well he wouldn't say fire up the barbeque.

My only point is that so many see this as a Christian or a Muslim issue.
What would Jesus do, what did the Prophet teach, yadda yadda yadda.

I see it as more a fundamental clash of idealogies - a clash of civilization.

It's either freedom or my way or the highway, you WILL respect my God or I will kill you.

It's going to happen, and it isn't going to be because of a nutcase bent on libricide.
That's a point we're all focusing on, but notice how the protests got started before the book was even warm.

It's coming.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by sweetliberty
I feel I should elaborate on "it's just a book people".
What is in someone's heart is the what is most important. At first it used to bother me when the Bible or flag was disgraced but it didn't take me long to get past those actions of others.
Thankfully we have an abundance of Qurans and other Bibles out there to purchase or to give to others to learn from and to enjoy. So with that in mind, and with what is in one's heart and mind, that is why in this instance I say it's just a book.
What a book represents is what we fight for if we have to

Thank you,
sl


Very profound !
I agree 100000%.
There is absolutely nothing more I can add to this other then a STAR for a fantastic post !



posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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As much as I hate to see burning of the Quran or Bible, it's still free speech so while I think it's a terrible idea and hope it doesn't happen, we can't arrest the guy or prevent it without losing the foundation of free speech America was built upon.

If the General wants our troops safe, he should bring all of them home. It's now admitted that our troops guard and actually grow the opium so the CIA can use it for their black programs. We don't need their poppy just like we didn't need Iraq's oil since we've had Tesla zero point energy for 60 years at least and this has been kept hidden from us just like our teleportation progress (see Project Pegasus). Pat Tilman, one of the poster boys for the war knew it was a scam after he had been in country and was going to protest it when he got done with his tour. He said it was all about the poppy also and was quite upset according to his own parents so they had to kill him.

The new world order funds both sides of all the wars so they maximize their profits. Same thing was going on in the Vietnam war. It's all meant to be a big meat grinder to kill soldiers, kill civilians and make the Rothschilds and Rockefellers money while America's economy gets destroyed as it has been for the last 10 years! When are you war mongers going to wake up and get right with God. There is no honor in these wars, they were all based on lies and we are doing evil.



posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I feel I should elaborate on "it's just a book people".
What is in someone's heart is the what is most important. At first it used to bother me when the Bible or flag was disgraced but it didn't take me long to get past those actions of others.
Thankfully we have an abundance of Qurans and other Bibles out there to purchase or to give to others to learn from and to enjoy. So with that in mind, and with what is in one's heart and mind, that is why in this instance I say it's just a book.
What a book represents is what we fight for if we have to

Thank you,
sl


Very profound !
I agree 100000%.
There is absolutely nothing more I can add to this other then a STAR for a fantastic post !


Which is an opinion only, that yes, many people do share. Yet what is just 'this' to you, is clearly not just 'that' to many others.

So now it becomes about what methods are excusable and acceptable in foisting your oppinion on others.

In making that opinion the dominant and universally accepted opinion, which of course seems a reasonable opinion when it happens to be your opinion.

Yet obviously not everyone shares that opinion that it is just a book.

Who doesn't share the opinion that is really just a book? Why you and the poster you were replying to, don't share that opinion that it is just a book. Why because Terry Jones the man who started all this controversy doesn't believe it is just a book either. That is why he wants to burn it, because he knows many people the world over don't consider it to be just a book, and he doesn't consider it to be just a book either.

People who want to pretend that they are of the opinion this shouldn't matter to people because it is just a book are truly lying to themselves. They are lying to themselves in a number of foolish and self serving ways. One if it were really just a book to you, you would be entirely indifferent, you would say in all reality, that hey I don't understand why some people want to burn it and defend that practice, I don't understand why some people would want to react angrily or violently against that practice. Both groups are silly and both groups are wrong, because it's just a book.

Yet you and the poster you are responding too are not saying that. You are saying it is wrong of people to react because it is just a book, yet you aren't saying its equally wrong for people to burn it because it's just a book.

Your arguments are biased to exclusively favor one side on what is always a two sided coin in the way the equation is politically represented.

You would also know that no one breathes fire. That no it's not free speech that is in play when some one touches a match to a book and sets it on fire. Thats not speach that's an action. So we can say it's freedom of expression, that the action represents being against a book, against it to the point of wanting to burn it. So if you are defending someone's freedom of expression through the act of arson and destruction of a physical thing, and that thing is a book, then by extension you are saying the book is not just a book but an important symbol that destroying it conotes an expression of words, even though fire itself does not speak.

You could possibly more accurately describe it then as freedom of religion, the freedom to destroy religious icons that don't fit into your religion.

So now we have a potential catch 22 situation, where one person's take on their religion, commands them to destroy religious icons of other religions, and another person's take, practicing that religion who's icons are being destroyed commands them to prevent or react to that happening.

So "It's just a book" when presented with a biased argument that simply favors and only understands and tolerates one side of the coin, and one side's expressions in doing that, and one side's religion in doing that, is in fact showing that no, such people don't believe it is simply just a book.

It's a very disengenous and false and poorly thought out argument, because if you are arguing this issue at all, you clearly don't see this issue as just a book, and if it was just a book, no one would be singling out this specific book to burn for religious and political purposes, and no one would be reacting to it.

Understanding what you are really expressing and saying and what you aren't really expressing and saying is important too ever reaching the point where anyone would see such things that are icons and symbols of an idealogy as just a book.

Stupid is as stupid does.


edit on 11/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yet what is just 'this' to you, is clearly not just 'that' to many others.

I guess my response is...TOO BAD !
If they don't like it, they should ignore it or boycott it or anything else that doesn't involve death to an entire country.
These same terrorists have been burning American flags for decades. I find that MORE offensive to me personally then the burning of the quran. Am I threatening anyone's life? NO. Why you ask? Because that would not be a appropriate response by a rational person. I refuse to limit my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to try and placate a bunch of nutjobs who, if were not bitching about this, would be doing so about something else equally or more absurd.


So now it becomes about what methods are excusable and acceptable in foisting your oppinion on others.

No it's even more basic.
We as AMERICANS must decide whether to allow a terrorist organization to dictate our LEGAL actions within OUR borders. Do you want to be ruled by terrorists? I DON'T !!!


In making that opinion the dominant and universally accepted opinion, which of course seems a reasonable opinion when it happens to be your opinion.

Your attempt to minimize the threats of murder over the burning of a book...any book, simply don't fly.


Yet obviously not everyone shares that opinion that it is just a book.

And I don't share their opinion that THE STARS AND STRIPES is just a flag. Again, am I suggesting those who burn THE AMERICAN FLAG be killed? OF COURSE NOT !


People who want to pretend that they are of the opinion this shouldn't matter to people because it is just a book are truly lying to themselves.

Again, anyone who would suggest the murder of an entire country over the burning of maybe a few dozen books, is simply not rational.


Yet you and the poster you are responding too are not saying that. You are saying it is wrong of people to react because it is just a book, yet you aren't saying its equally wrong for people to burn it because it's just a book.

Not really. Ultimately I think book burning in general is repugnant. BUT, the pastor has every legal right to do it without being threatened with death.
To them it's more then a book. To me it's no more important then a dictionary. To me, THE AMERICAN FLAG is as important to me as their quran is to them. Do they care how I feel? NO. Why should I give a flying crap how they feel?


Your arguments are biased to exclusively favor one side on what is always a two sided coin in the way the equation is politically represented.

Again, what you've chosen to ignore is that there is not 2 sides to this particular coin. The United States of America has a CONSTITUTION that protects that idiotic pastor's rights. Terrorists are trying to take away his and more importantly OUR rights. You're trying to suggest that I should consider how the terrorists feel? REALLY? Hey lets just set aside the CONSTITUTION so we can make the crazy, murdering nut cases feel all warm and fuzzy for 30 seconds before they find yet another excuse to want us all dead < extreme sarcasm.


That no it's not free speech that is in play when some one touches a match to a book and sets it on fire. Thats not speach that's an action.

The CONSTITUTION protects that action.
Millions of men and women have died to protect our FREEDOMS and giving in to terrorist threat spits on their graves and dishonors their memory. I find your terrorist hand holding just plain SAD.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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Burning Qurans is juevenile and inflamatory (no pun intended). Its a stupid idea...I'm agin'it. That said...where are all the self righteous deciders when arabs all over the middle east are burning US, UK, Israel flags? Where are they when they are burning likenesses of US Presidents? Where were they when American artists were taking Federal money for taking photos of Crucifixes in jars of urine? Where were they when artist Chris Ofili created the "art" piece that depicted the Virgin covered in dung?

The better question is...Why doesn't anyone worry about the violent reactions of American, British Isreali citizens, Christian, or Jewish, when these provocative actions take place? I'll tell you why...there ARE NO violent reactions by civilized people to these idiotic actions.








edit on 9/12/2010 by darkbluesky because: second person to third..capitalization...tense



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by darkbluesky
 





The better question is...Why doesn't anyone worry about the violent reactions of American, British Isreali citizens, christian, or jewish,


This would be the America, England and Israel that is always using disproportionate force that kills hundreds of thousand innocent men, women and children, and then claims it’s not their fault, because they are using this disproportionate force to kill a small amount of non-uninformed fighters who are using the civilians as ‘human shields’.

Yet should a standoff and attack weapon like a home made rocket instead one made by Raytheon be used by these same non-uniformed fighters by say firing it into illegally occupied lands the civilians there are not human shields?

But victims of terrorists? I really wish people had the ability to understand the nonsense they are actually saying.

Islam would be so hard pressed to even come close to the body count America, England and Israel have wracked up, when it comes to killing innocent non-combatant men, women and children.

People need to be honest with them selves. Columbus discovered America? A land that was teaming with millions of First Nations people had long since before been discovered by those original inhabitants, after all they were already living here for thousands of years.

It is almost like in most people’s minds the Americas didn’t exist prior to that, but yet of course they did.

The more accurate description would be, Columbus discovered America for Christendom which then justified displacing the original inhabitants from the land because they weren’t Christians.

The Jewish 10 commandments are all about war and slavery and taxation.

Modern day Israel is a place where tens of thousands of civilians carry automatic weapons, in an ongoing war of Muslim attrition to push out the Pre-World War II inhabitants of the land.

Pretending any of these religions is peaceful is absurd, pretending any of these nations are peace loving is absurd, they all run perpetual war machines, they have all killed millions of innocent people.

People need to stop lying to them selves for the sake of God, Country and King, the world is bound to become a more peaceful place when the people who are, stop with all the denial and own up to and take full responsibility for their own actions.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Digital_Reality
 



The Northern Alliance in Afghanistan had been fighting and winning and making headway in getting the Taliban out of power, isn't it funny that the day before 9-11 it's leader who refused to take help from the CIA was assissinated by men posing as a camera crew and reporters.


Fact: Massoud was associated with the CIA for a long time.

Not germaine to the debate, but important fact nontheless.




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